T&T: Lehman engines

[Mvme...@aol.com]

Correct me if I'm wrong. The Ford "tractor" engine marinized into Lehman
engines is actually a European Ford "Truck" Tractor engine not a "Farm" tractor
engine.
Dave Stanton
m/v Medora
_______________________________________________
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers-and-trawlering

To unsubscribe send email to
trawlers-and-tr...@lists.samurai.com with the word
UNSUBSCRIBE and nothing else in the subject or body of the message.

Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World
Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

[d...@gregsteckel.com]

Yes, that is my understanding as well - I believe the engines in the UK were
called the Dorset and later models the Dover...

Greg Steckel
M/V Different Drummer
President 35 Sundeck
Frog Mortar Creek, MD

www.chesapeakebayboater.com
www.fmyc.org

[bob england]

I have only worked on a few Lehman/Ford boat engines so my expertize is not
great in this area, but I've worked on a bunch of midsized Ford tractors,
combines, backhoes, stationary equipment, etc. and the 6 cylinder Ford
diesel used in a lot of these aplications looks just like the boat engine. A
lot of the bigger combines used these engines. The early TW series ford
tractors used this engine, some turbo'd and rated around 225 hp. IIRC, it is
a 330 cubic inch engine, but it's been awhile since I've had my hands on
one, so I could be wrong. If it is the same engine major parts should be
available and fairly cheap at any Ford tractor dealership.

_________________________________________________________________
Valentine s Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline

[Faure, Marin]

>The Ford "tractor" engine marinized into Lehman engines is actually a
European Ford "Truck" Tractor engine not a "Farm" tractor engine.

The Ford of England "Dover" engine that Lehman Brothers in New Jersey
marinized to create the Ford Lehman 120 was originally designed to be an
engine for heavy-duty, over-the-road trucks, both dual axle and
semi-tractor. In those days (late 1950s) all the diesel engines used by
Ford, even in trucks made in the US, were designed and manufactured by
Ford of England.

The "Dover" engine quickly proved to be unsuitable for use in highway
trucks for two reasons--- the engine was not very happy when asked to
run in a relatively wide rpm band, and it proved to be underpowered.
This was at a time when truck weights and highway speeds were both
increasing rapidly and 120 horsepower simply didn't cut it anymore. So
the "Dover" engine was soon dropped as a truck engine.

Where the "Dover" proved very successful was in applications which made
use of its strengths--- constant power, constant rpm applications. So
it became a popular engine to power generators, pumps, and industrial
equipment like cranes. Constant power, constant rpm use is the very
description of the requirements of a marine engine in a trawler. Which
is why it proved to be an ideal engine to maximize for this use. Lehman
Bros. was the most common maximization conversion, but the "Dover" was
marinized by a number of other companies as well, some of them in
Europe.

The Lehman 120, as it came to be called, was available completely
marinized from Lehman Bros. or they would sell the marinization kit
which could be applied to an off-the-shelf Ford "Dover" engine somewhere
else. American Marine (Grand Banks), for example, which was one of the
largest if not the single largest user of the Ford Lehman 120, decided
in the early 1970s that they could save money by buying the "Dover"
engines directly from Ford, the marinization kits directly from Lehman,
and putting the two together in their factory in Singapore next to the
boats the engines were going into. They did this for several years
until they determined it was actually costing them more to do this than
buying the already-marinized engines from Lehman. So they went back to
buying their engines from Lehman Bros.

Engines that had the Lehman kits put on by American Marine are identical
to the engines marinized at Lehman except for the color. All engines
marinized by Lehman were painted red. The Lehman engines put together
by American Marine were painted either a metallic olive green or a sort
of yellow-gold color. Of course many Lehman 120s have been repainted
various colors over the years. But the Lehmans in our '73 boat are
green-- they had their Lehman marinization kits installed at the Grand
Banks plant in Singapore.

I have seen a number of comments that the Ford "Dover" was also used in
farm tractors. However I have never seen an "official" reference to
this, so I don't know if the "Dover" engine was actually used in this
way or a later derivative. BTW, the engine Lehman marinized into the
Lehman 135 is the Ford of England "Dorset" engine.

______________________________
C. Marin Faure
GB36-403 "La Perouse"
Bellingham, Washington

[Faure, Marin]

In my previous post on this subject I didn't catch the fact that the
spell-checker was changing "marinize" to "maximize." Sorry.....

Also, I used to think the Ford of England engine that Lehman used to
create the Ford Lehman was the "Dorset" engine. I have since been
corrected by a Grand Banks owner in the UK who is very familiar with the
whole lineage of Ford of England diesels. The first engine, the one
that became the Lehman 120, was actually the "Dover" engine. The
"Dorset" engine was a later Ford of England diesel that Lehman marinized
into the Lehman 135, and it has significant differences from the
"Dover"/ Ford Lehman 120 engine.

At the same time Lehman was creating the six-cylinder Ford Lehman 120
they also created the four-cylinder Ford Lehman 90. This is basically
identical to the Ford of England "Dover" except for the number of
cylinders. This engine in its Lehman 90 form was used in a number of
boats including some Grand Banks. I do not know if this version of the
"Dover" had its own name at Ford of England. The British like to give
names to machines--- witness the famous Rolls-Royce Merlin, Griffon, and
today, Trent engines. Many of the names given to WWII aircraft types
were actually British in origin.

[Harry Graham Jr.]

I have a 1973 Cheoy Lee 40 trawler that has the Dover engine marinized by
Lees of New Zealand.

Anybody have the same, and do you have a manual you would like to share?

Harry
Cheoy Lee 40 Mary Malcolm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Faure, Marin" <marin...@boeing.com>
To: <Mvme...@aol.com>
Cc: "TrawlerList TrawlerList" <trawlers-an...@lists.samurai.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:55 AM
Subject: T&T: Lehman engines

[Faure, Marin]

>have a 1973 Cheoy Lee 40 trawler that has the Dover engine marinized by
Lees of New Zealand. Anybody have the same, and do you have a manual you
would like to share?

The Grand Banks Owners Forum (http://www.grandbanksowners.com/index.php)
has a sub-site called GB Woodies under "Member Resources" on the
homepage. Under "Members Resources" on the GB Woodies page is a
"Manuals" section. In this section are a number of PDF files of various
manuals including the operator's manual for the Ford Lehman 120 and the
parts manual for the same engine. I don't know if the Lees-marinized
engine was created using the Lehman marinization kit or if they
developed their own kit. FWIW the GB Woodies site also has the manuals
for the BW Velvet Drive transmission.

[bob england]

To help clear the water, or muddy it even more, however the case may be, At
the mention of Lee's marine marinization of the Ford diesel I remembered
that a friend of mine (sailboater, other than that he was ok.) bought a Ford
Diesel engine from a combine, and later bought a lee's marine engine with a
bad crankshaft, it had all of the marinization parts on it. I put the
exhaust manifold and raw water pump onto the combine engine, it was a direct
fit, the engines were identical down to the last bolt. Oil pan bolt pattern,
Simms injector pump, everything. The combine engine was blue and the Lee's
engine was red. I'll bet if you hauled a Lehman block to my friendly parts
guy at Arnett Ford Tractor he would ask what year model tractor/equipment it
came out of, and know nothing at all about them being used in boats.

_________________________________________________________________
Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

[Scott Templeton]

Here is the guy who was selling injectors on e-bay:
His name is Gerry O'donnell and he lives in Minn. The injectors are only
$35.00 from him, $25.00 if you send him your old ones. His phone # is
952-807-4266

[Keith]

Excellent! I think I started this when I mentioned that you could get parts
for Lehmans at tractor places. The PO of my boat has an extensive list of
tractor part numbers and supply places where he bought parts for my Lehman
135. You probably can't get any of the "marinized" parts there, but it
appears that tractor supply places could be a good alternative if you're so
inclined.

Keith
_____
When someone asks you, "A penny for your thoughts" and you put your two
cents in ...what happens to the other penny?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Faure, Marin" <marin...@boeing.com>
To: <Mvme...@aol.com>
Cc: "TrawlerList TrawlerList" <trawlers-an...@lists.samurai.com>

Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 12:55 PM
Subject: T&T: Lehman engines

> >The Ford "tractor" engine marinized into Lehman engines is actually a
> European Ford "Truck" Tractor engine not a "Farm" tractor engine.
>

<snip>

> I have seen a number of comments that the Ford "Dover" was also used in
> farm tractors. However I have never seen an "official" reference to
> this, so I don't know if the "Dover" engine was actually used in this
> way or a later derivative. BTW, the engine Lehman marinized into the
> Lehman 135 is the Ford of England "Dorset" engine.