Reminder: Transportation Seminar, TODAY, Friday March 9, 12pm
Jerry Schneider
---------------------------------------------------------
>Portland State University [link to event calendar
>http://www.pdx.edu/events/12390/]
>Center for Transportation Studies
>Winter 2007 Transportation Seminar Series
>
>Speaker: Dr. Joseph M. Sussman, JR East Professor
>of Civil & Environmental Engineering, MIT
>Topic: Where Transportation is Going:
>Transportation in the CLIOS System Era
>When: Friday, March 9, 2007, 12:00-1:30 pm
>Where: 204 Urban Center (www.pdx.edu/map.html)
>
>For more information on Dr. Sussman and his
>presentation, please go to:
>http://www.cts.pdx.edu/pdf/Sussman-flyerSeminar3-07.pdf
>
>* Archived seminars are now available for download!
>* Watch live video, see future scheduled seminars,
>and view archives: www.cts.pdx.edu/seminars.htm
>* Email questions before or during the seminar:
>psuseminar at yahoo.com
>* Join our email list: www.cts.pdx.edu/email.htm
>* We look forward to your feedback. Thank you for
>your participation!
>
>Robert L. Bertini, Ph.D., P.E.
>Portland State University
>503.725.4249 www.bertini.org
Michael Weidler
Tad Winiecki
I like to see pretty pictures and things moving in transport lectures
and there weren't any.
There was a map showing where spent nuclear fuel is and where it is
supposed to go (Yucca Mountain, NV), a good flow chart showing the
engineering systems process, and the rest was mostly just words.
It was a little depressing because more people are involved in the
planning process now, it takes longer and is more complicated, The
spent nuclear fuel still hasn't gone to Yucca Mountain after 20 years
of trying.
Prof. Sussman seems to be somewhat more pessimistic about the
application of automation to transport than most people on this list.
God bless you.
Tad Winiecki
Higherway Transport Research
"Suburb to suburb quicker"
http://higherway.us
Evacuated Tube Transport licensee
http://www.et3.com
Dennis Manning
Tad:
Did Sussmam give any indication of why he is pessimistic about automating
transportation? Was he thinking ITS or PRT? or?
Dennis
Bob Dunning
Jerry Schneider
>Tad:
>
>Tad:
>
>Did Sussmam give any indication of why he is pessimistic about automating
>transportation? Was he thinking ITS or PRT? or?
He was quite negative about ITS - no mention of PRT or any other
automated system. I have, in the
past, tried to get him interested in innovative systems since his
textbook is widely used.
He also said he thought the "Big Dig" was a "good deal" for Boston
but perhaps not for the rest of us. He has been a
faculty member for 40 years now and probably will stay on as there is
no mandatory retirement age
anymore. The questions were pretty soft and had nothing to do with
his presentation. Overall, not
very inspiring, IMHO.
- Jerry Schneider -
Innovative Transportation Technologies
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans
Tad Winiecki
answering questions gave me that feeling. I asked about the MIT DARPA
Urban Challenge team effort and he didn't know about their progress
this year. He told about the automated highway demonstration in San
Diego a few years ago. I think he was just seeing more obstacles and
delays than progress in implementing transport systems. He said that
designing for flexibility in the future is not a desirable feature in
many large projects because it can wreck the political
coalition/consensus needed to make progress in implementing them. He
gave the Big Dig as an example. Evidently most people in Boston are
happy about the Big Dig because it helped mobility and they didn't have
to pay for all of it.
He was aware of Ed Anderson's work and Shef Lang. I think the
pessimism was mostly because of political challenges.
Optimism is important for designers like me. If I knew how long my
projects would take and how unprofitable they would be I wouldn't try
and then I wouldn't accomplish anything new or innovative.
On Mar 10, 2007, at 2:37 PM, Dennis Manning wrote:
>
> Tad:
>
> Tad:
>
> Did Sussmam give any indication of why he is pessimistic about
> automating
> transportation? Was he thinking ITS or PRT? or?
>
> Dennis
God bless you.
Guala Luca
I tried to contact Toyota Japan but at no avail. At Toyota Italy they only know about cars
cheers
Luca
Walter Brewer
etc, etc, or what used to be Automated Highway System for higher vehicle
density, more throughput etc?
I think I mentioned a Sussman talk I attended in San Diego about 8 or so
yers ago. He was very positive on AHS, a popular concept at the time. I
think it was about the time the half dozen Buicks were run automatically in
close formation on I-15 near San Diego.
In my Polecat at the Picnic mode, I asked him; why not just build more
roads. He continued to defend AHS as the coming thing, but didn't have any
numerical comparisons.
Speaking of use of automation, why aren't freight trains automated? I've
mentioned the very busy freight line through Klamath Falls Oregon.
Sometimes<10 minutes apart. Single daily Amtrak is almost always several
hours late. You call the station for a recording on when to come to the
station! I understand all of this is programmed from Omaha NB. Not sure what
the drivers do except what the signals tell them to.
Maybe the answer is spelled "Union"?
Walt Brewer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Schneider" <j...@peak.org>
To: <transport-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 6:17 PM
Subject: [t-i] Re: Reminder: Transportation Seminar, TODAY, Friday March 9,
12pm
>
Jerry Schneider
Some info is available at: http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/imts.htm
It's from 2005 and I don't have any more recent info.
Other dualmode systems are described at
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/dualmode.htm
Jerry Schneider
>Is ITS defined as the current program of aids to drivers, incident handling,
>etc, etc, or what used to be Automated Highway System for higher vehicle
>density, more throughput etc?
ITS covers "everything" that involves using electronics to facilitate
automobility.
There is an automated highway system component but they don't use that
term anymore. It's now called "intelligent highway-vehicle communication" or
something similar. It's a small component but quite active.
>I think I mentioned a Sussman talk I attended in San Diego about 8 or so
>yers ago. He was very positive on AHS, a popular concept at the time. I
>think it was about the time the half dozen Buicks were run automatically in
>close formation on I-15 near San Diego.
>In my Polecat at the Picnic mode, I asked him; why not just build more
>roads. He continued to defend AHS as the coming thing, but didn't have any
>numerical comparisons.
He has apparently changed his mind. He did refer to the San Diego
meeting but said that
what was demonstrated was not feasible on a large scale. You can hear what he
said by going to the streaming video/audio and hearing/seeing his
response to Tad's
DARPA question.
Robbert Lohmann [Frog Navigation Systems]
I do not have any recent information either, but have heard a rumor that Toyota has lost interest in the program. I haven't been able to confirm this rumor though.
There are several alternative systems to Toyota's IMTS: Phileas (Dutch, with our guidance system), Civis (using camera-guidance) and Translohr (using a centre-rail). All of them have applications running and more underway. Phileas is frontrunner for an application in the Italian town of Pescara in a trolley-configuration.
If you want more information on advanced transit systems (not only automated versions, but also other forms of transit), you might want to contact the University in Rome. Either mr. Adriano Allessandrini or mr. Francesco Fillipi will be able to share their knowledge, gathered partly through several European Research programs, with you. I know particularly mr. Fillipi has a great interest in Bus Transit projects.
Regards,
Robbert Lohmann
Jerry Schneider schreef:
Guala Luca
thank you for your information, I will contact mr. Alessandrini asap.
My situation is the following: the architect who leads this project saw the Toyota IMTS at the 2005 Expo in Aichi, Japan, and fell in love with it. He knew no other similar systems, so he thought it was unique. We suggested checking various alternatives and showed him the Civis as a working example. We warned him that the Toyota was experimental and probably will require a long homologation process anyway.
Frankly, I thought that the development of the Phileas was at a dead end since I have not heard about it for a while.
The municipality of the town where this system should be implemented (sorry but I cannot give you more details: I signed a confidentiality agreement....) does not want overhead cables nor rails, so the Translohr and the Bombardier systems are out of the question. Also metal pegs may be questioned.
What we should look at is a hybrid or battery operated system (it's one line only, about 3 km long, without long inclines). The capacity needed from this system is not huge, and frequency is favoured so we need to suggest small vehicles, 50-80 places, rather than big articulated buses.
I will be happy to know more about the Phileas-Frog system, especially if the guidance system requires no visible modifications of the road surface and if it can be implemented on smaller vehicles than the articulated Philesa that I know of.
cheers
Luca
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: transport-...@googlegroups.com per conto di Robbert Lohmann [Frog Navigation Systems]
Inviato: lun 12/03/2007 9.31
A: transport-...@googlegroups.com
Cc:
Oggetto: [t-i] Re: Toyota IMTS
Gérard Massip
Le gazon au milieu du couloir bus est sympa
J'aime bien aussi l'image de l'engin qui déboite de la voie semi-ferrée pour s'insérer dans la circulation générale.
Mais le plus drôle reste absolument le bus en attente dans la station de métro. :lol:
Tan Lien Chiow
Hi
You may want to have a look at MonicPRT system http://www.MonicPRT.com which is a battery operated cars guided by magnets embedded in the roadway. The 5 to 8 peoples per car and direct point to point travel without being blocked by preceding car stopping is really ideal for a frequent on demand service.
Regards
Mr. TAN Lien Chiow
Chief Executive Officer
Monic PRT Pte Ltd
Tel: +65 92961953
Skype : LienChiowTan
|
|
<br
ral...@gmail.com
Michael Weidler
Walter Brewer <catc...@charter.net> wrote:
Walter Brewer
Walter Brewer
----- Original Message -----From: Gérard Massip
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:18 AMSubject: [t-i] Re: Toyota IMTS
Kirston Henderson
> What happens with a foot of snow?
>
> Walt Brewer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gérard Massip
> To: transport-...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:18 AM
> Subject: [t-i] Re: Toyota IMTS
>
>
> Hi
>
> There are also kerb guided bus, which can share tracks with streetcar or light
> rail :
> http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/OBahn.htm
It probably comes to grinding halt.
Kirston Henderson
MegaRail®
Walter Brewer
Guala Luca
I have ridden a KGB in Leeds, UK, several years ago (1999 to be precise!). Interesting ride, if a bit bumpy. They built the bus tracks on dismissed light rail lines to and the modifications to each bus cost less than 600 GBP! It's funny that when the KGB started service, no driver wanted to drive them because they felt that having no control ver the wheel was awkward. After some time they booked turns to drive the KGB because they realized how much less distressing than ordinary buses it was!
However, the project we are working on has very strict specifications: nothing can be built that spoils the skyiline, so no overhead power lines, no PRT or monorail tracks, no APM guideways.
On the ground, nothing more intrusive than painted lines and (perhaps) metal pegs flush with the road surface are allowed. The vehicles must be able to ride on ordinary roads as well; hourly capacity is not huge (1500 pphpd are more than enough) but a high frequency is required. There's only one line, 3 to 6 km long (depending on different variants of the project) with possible short transversal branches.
An ordinary bus system on reserved lines would do well, but the project heads want something very innovative and clean, hence the interest for automated guidance and hybrid/battery electric/CNG power.
This is why we are looking at something like the Toyota IMTS or a smaller scale Civis/Phileas system
regards
Luca
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: transport-...@googlegroups.com per conto di Gérard Massip
Inviato: lun 12/03/2007 13.18
There are also kerb guided bus, which can share tracks with streetcar or light rail :
http://www.garden.force9.co.uk/OBahn.htm
If you can not see the photos, go to
http://www.lyon-en-lignes.org/forum/index.php?topic=1865.0
Oui, c'est assez marrant ce truc qui sert à la fois d'autobus, de tramway et de métro pneu.
Le gazon au milieu du couloir bus est sympa
Guala Luca
thank you for the information. I have looked at the MonicPRt website before and found it interesting. However a PRT is not what our clients would like to see.
How far is MonicPRT from being marketable? On the MonicPRT website I could not see any photos of a real vehicle, but only renderings and computer generated images.
cheers
Luca
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: transport-...@googlegroups.com per conto di Tan Lien Chiow
Inviato: lun 12/03/2007 15.35
A: transport-...@googlegroups.com
Cc:
Oggetto: [t-i] Re: Toyota IMTS
Hi
You may want to have a look at MonicPRT system http://www.MonicPRT.com <http://www.monicprt.com/> which is a battery operated cars guided by magnets embedded in the roadway. The 5 to 8 peoples per car and direct point to point travel without being blocked by preceding car stopping is really ideal for a frequent on demand service.
Regards
Tan Lien Chiow
MonicPRT system is more than ULTra. We use any existing vehicle preferable
electric powered, and put in our control kit to make the road legal vehicles
move automatically when on the road where magnets are planted. The vehicle
can be driven manually outside the guideway like other road legal vehicle.
Bus or Tram stops at every stopping point, MonicPRT system of stopping at
right angle off the road using smaller size vehicle and fewer passengers,
makes travel more pleasant and faster. It is more efficient as empty car
needs not move unnecessary to complete the trip. There is no need for time
schedule thus passengers need not run to catch the bus.
We can put in the system within 9 months excluding the construction of
roadways; the clients need to select the type of the vehicle available in
the market with some changes to the body chassis if required; it likes
buying a minibus.
Cheers
Mr. TAN Lien Chiow
Chief Executive Officer
Monic PRT Pte Ltd
Tel: +65 92961953
Skype : LienChiowTan
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