Transit death sprial by Randal O'toole

jerry schneider

unread,

Jan 14, 2019, 5:07:43 PM1/14/19

to transport-innovators

https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/01/14/otoole-rtds-death-spiral/

Jerry Roane

unread,

Jan 14, 2019, 5:33:24 PM1/14/19

to transport-innovators

Jerry

Thank you for this find. I have to disagree with the premise that raising prices drops ridership of big box transit. The transit advocates say that people riding publicly subsidized big box must ride the bus. So the economics principle that O'Toole uses does not apply. They still have to get to work even if they have to pay an equitable percentage of the cost of the ride. There simply is no other alternative. The only reason free market economics works is there are alternatives in a free market. If there are none, then someone will invent one and grab some cash in the process. As long as big box transit keeps subsidizing inefficient, slow, polluting diesel buses those customers will have to ride them and pay the piper whatever the piper demands of him.

Death spirals are for competitors who try to compete against subsidies. Case in point, is the free enterprise bus service that was mirroring Muni in the San Francisco bay area. They had to shut down because they were getting flack by taking the customers from Muni and borrowing their stations, sort of according to the complaints. Last month they announced they were going down. http://www.sfexaminer.com/new-regulations-jitneys-leave-ban-muni-competition-flux/ Chariot.

Big box transit does not like it when competition eases customer troubles with more or better service. If Muni can force out any free-enterprise doing the jobs that Muni can't then their strong-arm tactics will continue to keep the poor oppressed and riding no matter the fare fake price.

Jerry Roane

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 4:07 PM jerry schneider <31s...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/01/14/otoole-rtds-death-spiral/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "transport-innovators" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Eph

unread,

Jan 15, 2019, 2:54:56 PM1/15/19

to transport-innovators

Uber and Lyft?

F.

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 5:33:24 PM UTC-5, Jerry Roane wrote:

Jerry

Thank you for this find. I have to disagree with the premise that raising prices drops ridership of big box transit. The transit advocates say that people riding publicly subsidized big box must ride the bus. So the economics principle that O'Toole uses does not apply. They still have to get to work even if they have to pay an equitable percentage of the cost of the ride. There simply is no other alternative. The only reason free market economics works is there are alternatives in a free market. If there are none, then someone will invent one and grab some cash in the process. As long as big box transit keeps subsidizing inefficient, slow, polluting diesel buses those customers will have to ride them and pay the piper whatever the piper demands of him.

Death spirals are for competitors who try to compete against subsidies. Case in point, is the free enterprise bus service that was mirroring Muni in the San Francisco bay area. They had to shut down because they were getting flack by taking the customers from Muni and borrowing their stations, sort of according to the complaints. Last month they announced they were going down. http://www.sfexaminer.com/new-regulations-jitneys-leave-ban-muni-competition-flux/ Chariot.

Big box transit does not like it when competition eases customer troubles with more or better service. If Muni can force out any free-enterprise doing the jobs that Muni can't then their strong-arm tactics will continue to keep the poor oppressed and riding no matter the fare fake price.

Jerry Roane

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 4:07 PM jerry schneider <31s...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/01/14/otoole-rtds-death-spiral/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "transport-innovators" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to transport-innovators+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

Jerry Roane

unread,

Jan 15, 2019, 5:26:49 PM1/15/19

to transport-innovators

F.

Any and all. I was referencing Chariot in my post but Uber and Lyft have received tremendous blow back from the entrenched and endangered. Even though crime data shows clearly that taxi drivers commit more crime on riders than Uber and Lyft every instance of an Uber driver going nutso is on national news. Taxi drivers just make the local news. All competitors are going to have to endure this type of blow back.

It is a bit discouraging to know that even if you and I solve a problem that there will be those that fight it tooth and nail.

Chariot had a business plan that provided superior service but in mirroring the subsidize routes and not covering the unprofitable routes they didn't make it. They also were slammed for not providing handicapped service and they really should have in their initial plans. If we don't provide for handicapped customers with excellent service we too will fail.

Jerry Roane

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 1:54 PM Eph <eph.e...@gmail.com> wrote:

Uber and Lyft?

F.

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 5:33:24 PM UTC-5, Jerry Roane wrote:

Jerry

Thank you for this find. I have to disagree with the premise that raising prices drops ridership of big box transit. The transit advocates say that people riding publicly subsidized big box must ride the bus. So the economics principle that O'Toole uses does not apply. They still have to get to work even if they have to pay an equitable percentage of the cost of the ride. There simply is no other alternative. The only reason free market economics works is there are alternatives in a free market. If there are none, then someone will invent one and grab some cash in the process. As long as big box transit keeps subsidizing inefficient, slow, polluting diesel buses those customers will have to ride them and pay the piper whatever the piper demands of him.

Death spirals are for competitors who try to compete against subsidies. Case in point, is the free enterprise bus service that was mirroring Muni in the San Francisco bay area. They had to shut down because they were getting flack by taking the customers from Muni and borrowing their stations, sort of according to the complaints. Last month they announced they were going down. http://www.sfexaminer.com/new-regulations-jitneys-leave-ban-muni-competition-flux/ Chariot.

Big box transit does not like it when competition eases customer troubles with more or better service. If Muni can force out any free-enterprise doing the jobs that Muni can't then their strong-arm tactics will continue to keep the poor oppressed and riding no matter the fare fake price.

Jerry Roane

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 4:07 PM jerry schneider <31s...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/01/14/otoole-rtds-death-spiral/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "transport-innovators" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to transport-...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/transport-innovators.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "transport-innovators" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to transport-innova...@googlegroups.com.

Reply all

Reply to author

Forward