RE: Wrightwood Community Garden
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Michelle Schneider
Oct 23, 2009, 10:37:27 AM10/23/09
to Transition Wrightwood
Will it be fenced? For two years in a row now, the gophers have gotten my tomato plants. I always put marigolds around them, which seem to help with other critters, but nothing I've found has helped the gopher problem, including planting garlic and onions everywhere (interspersed throughout my garden). I don't know as much about permaculture, but I think we'll still need to put a barrier down against gophers. Also ground squirrels have not been deterred in my yard by putting onions everywhere. They still ate my broccoli even though it was planted between lines of onions. Argh. Where would this be located again?
> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:16:57 -0700
> Subject: Wrightwood Community Garden
> From: maryluc...@yahoo.com
> To: transition...@googlegroups.com
>
>
> It would be nice to incorporate as much permaculture into the garden
> design as possible. Raised beds are great. Permaculture frequently
> utilizes key hole, spiral, or circular beds built right on top of the
> ground with lots of layers of compost, soil, worms, and mulch. We
> have plenty of rocks for edging! Other permaculture concepts include
> the use of berms, swales, companion planting, water features, compost
> piles, seed growing areas/greenhouses. Almost all landscaping is
> edible....lots of fruit trees, vines, berries, herbs. Flowers like
> marigolds and petunias are planted with veggies for pest control.
> Companion planting is another big part of permaculture, some plants do
> better when planted with other plants, and some vegetables deter pests
> from other plants. For example, cabbage, broccoli and cauliflower do
> well with onions. The onions deter cabbage worms that eat holes in
> the leaves. I am not an expert but I am very excited about the
> project!
>
> It would also be lovely to have some dining tables in the garden area
> and of course we need art! I have a friend that does large benches
> and sculptures with cement and mosaic tile!
>
> We should have a meeting before the deadline. Perhaps we could put
> together some ideas on Sun. the 1st of Nov.
>
> Mary
>
> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:16:57 -0700
> Subject: Wrightwood Community Garden
> From: maryluc...@yahoo.com
> To: transition...@googlegroups.com
>
>
> It would be nice to incorporate as much permaculture into the garden
> design as possible. Raised beds are great. Permaculture frequently
> utilizes key hole, spiral, or circular beds built right on top of the
> ground with lots of layers of compost, soil, worms, and mulch. We
> have plenty of rocks for edging! Other permaculture concepts include
> the use of berms, swales, companion planting, water features, compost
> piles, seed growing areas/greenhouses. Almost all landscaping is
> edible....lots of fruit trees, vines, berries, herbs. Flowers like
> marigolds and petunias are planted with veggies for pest control.
> Companion planting is another big part of permaculture, some plants do
> better when planted with other plants, and some vegetables deter pests
> from other plants. For example, cabbage, broccoli and cauliflower do
> well with onions. The onions deter cabbage worms that eat holes in
> the leaves. I am not an expert but I am very excited about the
> project!
>
> It would also be lovely to have some dining tables in the garden area
> and of course we need art! I have a friend that does large benches
> and sculptures with cement and mosaic tile!
>
> We should have a meeting before the deadline. Perhaps we could put
> together some ideas on Sun. the 1st of Nov.
>
> Mary
>
Sharon R Figula
Oct 23, 2009, 9:51:52 PM10/23/09
to transition...@googlegroups.com
rodent repellent but an insect repellent. I would suggest raised bed,
with double layers of chicken wire underneath (to stop gophers).
Hardware cloth up the sides of the raised beds with bird netting over
the top. The garden would have to have some kind of frame work to
support the bird netting. In the area the park will be in there will be
an added problem of rabbits. They are actually the easiest to keep out
of the garden. On the hardware cloth I would use 1/4 inch mesh, the
lizards can get stuck and die in 1/2 mesh. Also on the bird netting, if
it isn't good quality, it will break ( as I have found out) letting
birds in the garden. Also people could use a row cover to keep the
frost off of their plantings both in the spring and in the fall. Don't
mean to be butting in but I thought the above ideas maybe useful.
Sharon
Arlene Corte
Oct 23, 2009, 7:24:41 PM10/23/09
to transition...@googlegroups.com
Where are they thinking to put this garden?
How did the bartering session go?
:) Arlene
How did the bartering session go?
:) Arlene
Stephanie Carroll
Oct 23, 2009, 11:52:48 PM10/23/09
to transition...@googlegroups.com
Great ideas everyone! Keep them coming!
Sharon- you are not butting in! You are an expert on gardens in
Wrightwood and your ideas are extremely valuable, thanks for
responding. I agree about having the wire mesh under the raised beds.
Donna and Philip's idea for wire covers for the beds is similar to
Sharon's suggestion for bird netting over the beds. We will have to
figure out if individuals are responsible for their own covers for
their own beds, or if this is something that we want the county to
help us build into the structure of the beds (permanent vs semi-
permanent).
I think perhaps we should build raised beds with the layers of 1/4inch
hardware cloth Sharon suggested, with the beds having corner posts
that people could then choose to add their own covers too. This way
they can be changed according to season, more permanent wooden
structures with wire embedded for warm seasons (that we could remove
and store), and plastic row covers for winter.
Speaking of storage, we will need some kind of permanent shed. Do we
want a conventional shed (like a Tuff shed) or would we perhaps like
to see an eco-shelter, like the earthbag homes built in Hesperia, or
another type of alternative architecture which could be a piece of art
and also serve as storage.
I would love to do some permaculture in the garden, we will have to
figure out which aspects of permaculture we can incorporate in a short
period of time - and if we need to ask a certified permaculturalist
for instruction on constructing our garden.
We also need to think about how many raised beds we think should be
built (how many people do we want to be able to garden here), the
layout of the garden (perhaps a water feature in the middle, or would
this attract larger animals we might not want inside the garden),
etc..., an eating area, or perhaps an amphitheater-like structure like
the one at Table Mountain Campground...
The acreage for the park is off of Wright Mtn Rd. Lots of sunshine,
not much shade, lots of rocks!!!
Steph
Sharon- you are not butting in! You are an expert on gardens in
Wrightwood and your ideas are extremely valuable, thanks for
responding. I agree about having the wire mesh under the raised beds.
Donna and Philip's idea for wire covers for the beds is similar to
Sharon's suggestion for bird netting over the beds. We will have to
figure out if individuals are responsible for their own covers for
their own beds, or if this is something that we want the county to
help us build into the structure of the beds (permanent vs semi-
permanent).
I think perhaps we should build raised beds with the layers of 1/4inch
hardware cloth Sharon suggested, with the beds having corner posts
that people could then choose to add their own covers too. This way
they can be changed according to season, more permanent wooden
structures with wire embedded for warm seasons (that we could remove
and store), and plastic row covers for winter.
Speaking of storage, we will need some kind of permanent shed. Do we
want a conventional shed (like a Tuff shed) or would we perhaps like
to see an eco-shelter, like the earthbag homes built in Hesperia, or
another type of alternative architecture which could be a piece of art
and also serve as storage.
I would love to do some permaculture in the garden, we will have to
figure out which aspects of permaculture we can incorporate in a short
period of time - and if we need to ask a certified permaculturalist
for instruction on constructing our garden.
We also need to think about how many raised beds we think should be
built (how many people do we want to be able to garden here), the
layout of the garden (perhaps a water feature in the middle, or would
this attract larger animals we might not want inside the garden),
etc..., an eating area, or perhaps an amphitheater-like structure like
the one at Table Mountain Campground...
The acreage for the park is off of Wright Mtn Rd. Lots of sunshine,
not much shade, lots of rocks!!!
Steph
mary duman
Oct 24, 2009, 12:30:44 AM10/24/09
to transition...@googlegroups.com
Oops, I was responding to general garden ideas not to rodents specifically.
Thank you for sharing Sharon, you are not butting in at all. In fact, I have been thinking about contacting you for your input.
Has anyone had any luck with moth balls, coyote urine, blood meal, or cayenne pepper spray? I also saw something about pet dander. I get lot's of big dog hair out of my vaccum cleaner! I was trying to think of permaculture principles for a solution and all I came up with was to attract natural predators or plant another food for the squirrels that would be more attractive and abundant. Another idea I found is to plant tall grass or other sight barriers. One article said that they need to keep the entrance to their den in sight.
I'm just brainstorming....lot's of theory but not much practice. I didn't have problems with them this year but I have a dog.
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mary duman
Oct 24, 2009, 1:10:27 AM10/24/09
to transition...@googlegroups.com
Do you know what the timeline looks like for this project? What do we need to give Chuck prior to Nov. 3rd? Would anyone be interested in meeting Sunday Nov. 1st to discuss ideas and create a "plan".
I thought it would be great to include kids from Wrightwood Elementary and local businesses in the project. They could sponsor and/or plant gardens. Excess food could be donated to charities or school lunch programs.
An earth stucture would be awesome. Cob is another simple earth construction technique. An attached seedling area with an arbor would be nice.
If it is not possible to do the entire garden according to permaculture principles, perhaps a section could utilize permaculture techniques. It would be awesome to hire an expert. I found this website for permaculture workshops (one weekend a month, starting in Nov.)...anyone interested? They also do consulting but it looks pricey.
I like the idea of doing a permaculture garden because once it is planted it will be more sustainable, creating a mini ecosystem that will enrich the natural habitat. Sustainability needs to be considered with any plan. The garden should not die if a few people go on summer vacation or drop out of the program.
Mary
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Donna Spencer
Oct 24, 2009, 10:34:07 AM10/24/09
to transition...@googlegroups.com
We have heard mixed reviews on coyote urine. I think that Sharon's ideas are on target and we have found that these techniques work very well. I personally would not be okay with bloodmeal because I am vegan.
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Sharon R Figula
Oct 24, 2009, 9:42:50 PM10/24/09
to transition...@googlegroups.com
> > > To: transition...@googlegroups.com
> <http://us.mc840.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=transition...@googlegroups.com>
etc.. They catherize the animals in cages, I personally am totally
against this as inhumane treatment of wild animals. I just thought of
another critter that may cause problems that you need to think about is
the raccoons. The area the park is going in I don't believe is a big
habitat for raccoons, but if they are there they like to dig up
plantings to get at worms and grubs.
Thanks for not thinking I was butting in. LOL
Sharon
Donna Spencer
Oct 24, 2009, 11:02:27 PM10/24/09
to transition...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for sharing the info on the collection of urine. We should be informed about these things and make decisions with the knowledge of how products are produced.
I like the barrier methods and companion planting best.
Donna |
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