Who cares?

[Lincoln Cannon]

Here's my latest discovery of someone blogging about the MTA:

 

http://www.transalchemy.com/2009/04/mormon-transhumanist-association.html

[Brent Allsop]

This blog states:

"Mormons believe that they are "Latter-day saints", God's favored
people chosen to usher in "The Millennium"."

And I posted a response stating my beliefs:

"I don't believe Mormons, or anyone else are 'God's Chosen'."

And ADDTV replied:

"The paper states: "We are the favored people that God has made
choice of to bring about the Latter-day glory;""

So I'd like to know in what paper does it say this, and who in the MTA
holds this belief?

Brent

[Carl Youngblood]

Brent, this is coming directly from the mouth of Joseph Smith. I think
that it is still possible to reconcile the idea of the Church having a
key role in the millennium while allowing for God to inspire all
people throughout the world.

[Carl Youngblood]

This is in our seminal Sunstone article, Transfiguration:

http://transfigurism.org/documents/transfiguration.pdf

[Carl Youngblood]

Incidentally, Brent, there are many ways that this concept is manifest
in Mormon doctrine and thought. Mormons believe they are of the house
of Israel, and that the house of Israel, especially the tribes of
Ephraim and Manasseh, are called to preach the gospel to the rest of
the world. They believe that all people who accept baptism from a duly
ordained priesthood holder are adopted into the house of Israel and
gain access to all the blessings that this entails. In various ways,
most Mormons see themselves as having a special mission to fulfill.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Carl Youngblood
<carl.yo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Brent Allsop]

Carl,

Thanks for these quick responses, and this great info.

Brent

[Lincoln Cannon]

CARM is talking about us again:

http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?t=170732

On Apr 22, 10:33 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> Here's my latest discovery of someone blogging about the MTA:
>

> http://www.transalchemy.com/2009/04/mormon-transhumanist-association....

[Lincoln Cannon]

The Timenauts blog noticed us . . .

http://timenauts.com/2009/05/16/mormons-like-resveratrol/

[Lincoln Cannon]

Jonathan Montgomery, of the Salt Lake City Freethinking Examiner,
wrote a review of the New God Argument:

http://www.examiner.com/x-8829-Salt-Lake-City-Freethinking-Examiner~y2009m5d24-Exploring-The-New-God-Argument-by-the-Mormon-Transhuman-Association

[Lincoln Cannon]

The Row Boat blog commented on us:

http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/meet-the-mormon-transhumanist-association/

On May 25, 5:23 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> Jonathan Montgomery, of the Salt Lake City Freethinking Examiner,
> wrote a review of the New God Argument:
>

> http://www.examiner.com/x-8829-Salt-Lake-City-Freethinking-Examiner~y...

[Lincoln Cannon]

The Other Right blog has also commented on us, observing that we're an
example of predictions made by Harold Bloom:

http://theotherright.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/mormonism-the-next-generation/

On May 26, 2:15 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> The Row Boat blog commented on us:
>

> http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/meet-the-mormon-transhumanist-assoc...

[Lincoln Cannon]

The post related to Harold Bloom's prediction also appears on The
American Conservative blog:

http://www.amconmag.com/schwenkler/2009/05/27/mormonism-the-next-generation/

On May 27, 2:09 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> The Other Right blog has also commented on us, observing that we're an
> example of predictions made by Harold Bloom:
>

> http://theotherright.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/mormonism-the-next-gene...

[Lincoln Cannon]

The First Things blog has commented about us . . .

http://www.firstthings.com/blog_entry.php?blog_id=1&year=2009&month=05&title_link=mormon-transhumanists-1243391344

On May 28, 8:17 am, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> The post related to Harold Bloom's prediction also appears on The
> American Conservative blog:
>

> http://www.amconmag.com/schwenkler/2009/05/27/mormonism-the-next-gene...

[Lincoln Cannon]

Here's a discussion about the New God Argument and the MTA on the Free
Republic web site:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2258472/posts

They're not sure whether we're more Mormon or more Transhumanist. I
guess that's the point, eh? ;-) We're both.

On Jun 6, 9:08 am, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> The First Things blog has commented about us . . .
>

> http://www.firstthings.com/blog_entry.php?blog_id=1&year=2009&month=0...

[Lincoln Cannon]

Geoff at the Mormon blog, New Cool Thang, mentioned that we came to
mind when he was writing this post:

http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/mad-max-mormonism-vs-star-trek-mormonism/1126/

[Lincoln Cannon]

Here is a conversation between a couple twitterers that mention
us . . .

http://twitter.com/fare/status/2355114792

http://twitter.com/fare/status/2373892471

http://twitter.com/fare/status/2375115045

http://twitter.com/fare/status/2375175916

http://twitter.com/jeapostrophe/status/2358370102

http://twitter.com/jeapostrophe/status/2374306772

http://twitter.com/jeapostrophe/status/2376954130

http://twitter.com/jeapostrophe/status/2376956903

http://twitter.com/jeapostrophe/status/2376980760

On Jul 2, 4:18 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> Geoff at the Mormon blog, New Cool Thang, mentioned that we came to
> mind when he was writing this post:
>

> http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/mad-max-mormonism-vs-st...

[Lincoln Cannon]

This Italian web page appears to be referring to us as a good example
of religions inspiring the use of tech:

http://ultimaepoca.blogspot.com/2009/06/zeitgeist-addendumdi-menzogne-la-verita.html

[Lincoln Cannon]

We were mentioned in the comments of this blog post:

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=2185

Are we a conspiracy? ;-)

On Jul 2, 4:47 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> This Italian web page appears to be referring to us as a good example
> of religions inspiring the use of tech:
>

> http://ultimaepoca.blogspot.com/2009/06/zeitgeist-addendumdi-menzogne...

[Lincoln Cannon]

We're deemed the "anomalous Mormon transhumanists" on the atheist
transhumanist comment board . . .

http://www.transhumanists.org/group/atheisttranshumanists

[Lincoln Cannon]

Someone asked the Juvenile Instructor blog whether our association
merits mention as part of 21st century Mormon history . . .

http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/byu-studies-481-2009/

I'm biased, but I suspect we'll merit mention.

[Brent Allsop]

Lincoln,

I looked through this but didn't see any reference to transhuman, except
in one of the comments?

Perhaps it got edited out??

If so, do you by chance have a cached or historical copy?

Brent Allsop

[Carl Youngblood]

Brent, make sure your search is case-insensitive. Look for
"Transhuman" exactly as written and you will find something. However,
it looks like the commenter was mistakenly referring to a different
issue, so the comment is not very relevant.

[Lincoln Cannon]

The mention is in the second or third comment - not the main post.

[Lincoln Cannon]

SarikOstheim mentioned us in a recent post at lds.net. Anyone know if
he is a member of the association? If you read this, SarikOstheim, and
are not already a member, I invite you to join!

On Aug 9, 9:43 am, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> The mention is in the second or third comment - not the main post.
>

[Lincoln Cannon]

Oops. Here's the link:

http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/24047-discipline-relationship.html

[Lincoln Cannon]

According to this guy, we're, uh . . . crazy.

http://jmichaeloday.blogspot.com/2009/05/these-people-are-some-batsht-crazy.html

Oh, if only he knew just how crazy we are! ;-)

On Aug 11, 9:10 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> Oops. Here's the link:
>

> http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/24047-discipline-relationship....

[Lincoln Cannon]

Oh, and by the way, we just might be involved in the Illuminati
conspiracy. At least, that seems to be the implication of a commenter
on this blog post:

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=2185

On Sep 19, 12:17 am, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> According to this guy, we're, uh . . . crazy.
>

> http://jmichaeloday.blogspot.com/2009/05/these-people-are-some-batsht...

[Lincoln Cannon]

Scott Edwards' head hurts after reading the New God Argument . . .

http://twitter.com/scottjedwards/statuses/4323402078

[Lincoln Cannon]

On the Overcoming Bias blog (authored by transhumanists), we were
identified as evidence that the Mormon culture is both highly fertile
and inclined toward modernity . . .

http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/future-fertility.html

[Joseph]

That article was written by Robin Hanson, one of the originators of
the great filter argument.

[Lincoln Cannon]

We were mentioned in a not altogether flattering manner at the end of
a recent IEET blog post from James Hughes . . .

http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/hughes20091004/

[Lincoln Cannon]

Bryant pointed out that Mormon Transhumanists have been proposing
answers to the question at the center of this blog post for quite some
time:

http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/10/06/thought-for-the-week/

[Christian Schumann-Curtis]

On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Lincoln Cannon <lin...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> Bryant pointed out that Mormon Transhumanists have been proposing
> answers to the question at the center of this blog post for quite some
> time:
>
> http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/10/06/thought-for-the-week/

I think the discussion of a variation of that question would be
as/more interesting:

Imagine, if you will, that a time is coming when humans have
accomplished paradisaical living but JC hasn't come again. What would
this do to our religion?

--
Christian Schumann-Curtis

4300 SE 51st Ave.
Portland, OR 97206

503.774.3568

[Lincoln Cannon]

That will always depend on how you define the Return of Christ.

[Lincoln Cannon]

A commenter on this blog points out that we're weird -- really really
-- for positing a future as gods:

http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2008/11/mormons-makin-trouble.html

[Lincoln Cannon]

I just noticed this conversation about Mormonism and the Convergence
Conference on the Extropy mail list, with some familiar participants
(John, Brent and Giulio):

http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2009-March/048426.html

[Lincoln Cannon]

One of the participants in this discussion mentions us, but doesn't
clearly explain why . . .

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3793&start=80&sid=078f6d1aa1ca1a1c0fe9d6b2361290f7

[Lincoln Cannon]

Apparently, we're the best answer to the question of whether the
Singularity will eliminate the need for God:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080529200502AAHbay8

On Nov 4, 10:06 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> One of the participants in this discussion mentions us, but doesn't
> clearly explain why . . .
>

> http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3793&start=80&s...

[Lincoln Cannon]

Wow. I must have been asleep this summer. Apparently Richard Bushman
mentioned us in his speech at the Society for Mormon Philosophy and
Theology conference at Claremont. Check out the transcript here:

http://squaretwo.org/Sq2ArticleBushmanIllAtEase.html

[Lincoln Cannon]

Who cares about the MTA? This thread is the answer. Here are some old
links from the legacy site to blogs and other web pages with content
from persons, friendly or not, that care . . .

It looks like we've become part of a political discussion related to
Romney . . .

http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showComment.do?commentId=43846

The Freedom of Religion board also found us . . .

http://freedomofreligion.myfreeforum.org/ftopic268.php

. . . as did the Tribal War board:

http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-462725.html

. . . and they think we're crazy. :-)

The Mormon Apologetics and Discussion board introduced the topic of
the Singularity, and our own Buraianto joined in the
conversation . . .

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=20534

It looks like the German Transhumanists have linked to our
Transfigurism News site.

http://www.transhumanismus.demokratietheorie.de/2007/01/01/transfigurism-news/

We got the "weird" tag from the Omniorthogonal blog. :-)

http://omniorthogonal.blogspot.com/2007/01/every-human-grouping-is-on-web.html

The whump.com "More Like This" blog just linked to us:

http://www.whump.com/moreLikeThis/2007/01/05/uploaded-saints-and-singularities/

That guy on the Blue Mass Group site that wants to know whether Mitt
Romney is a Mormon Transhumanist is now calling us nut jobs.
Awesome. ;-)

http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5725

It's confirmed. By the mouths of two witnesses, we deserve the "weird"
tag:

http://www.velcro-city.co.uk/links-for-09-01-2007/

. . . at the Velcro City Tourist Board.

Someone at the "Making Light" blog, who shouldn't have been surprised
to find us . . . was:

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008472.html

. . . and the Blue Mass guy continues promoting us -- the nutjobs.

http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5985

The Orbital Teapot blog has some good things to say about us, here:

http://orbitalteapot.blogspot.com/2007/01/mormon-transhumanist-association.html

Richard Dawkins' discussion forum found us . . .

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98697&highlight=mormon+transhumanist#98697

. . . and we're attacking with flying wheels! ;-)

Yahoo! Answers is trying to decide whether we're okay . . .

http://sg.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070215133349AA6afmu

The Universal Immortalism folks brought us up in conversation
regarding affiliation with the WTA:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/message/1160

It looks like our own Arcturus may be a member of that group. In any
case, I hope they're not prevented from affiliating with the WTA. We
have too much in common to worry about being against other
Transhumanist groups.

Awesome! We've arrived at the Portal of Evil! ;-)

http://www.portalofevil.com/single.php?poeurlid=000039553

. . . sad and lonely -- I suppose we all have our days.

A few Mormon members of the Nightstar Zoo thought we looked good on
the surface, but left a bad taste in their mouths . . .

http://zoo.nightstar.net/viewtopic.php?t=15947&sid=d5f7888ac9764626b47125ee2a214646

Now we're the butt -- really -- of an alien abduction joke. ;-)

http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.kibology/chi_tonw_27108734m.html#27108734

La Explanada de Avente blog found us:

http://explanadadeavente.blogspot.com/2007/03/mormon-transhumanism.html

. . . and includes some insightful comments.

We came up during a conversation about artificial intelligence on
Michael Anissimov's blog:

http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/?p=405

The Boy in the Machine found us, an unholy union of Transhumanism and
Mormonism. ;-)

http://boyinthemachine.blogspot.com/2007/04/mormonism-transhumanism-sittin-in-tree.html

Qyxxql_merlin shares some thoughts regarding my Second Life
presentation . . .

http://qyxxql-merlin.livejournal.com/3054.html

Qyxxql_merlin continues thoughts on the MTA, including reflections on
an email exchange with me . . .

http://qyxxql-merlin.livejournal.com/2007/05/18/

Michael Anissimov mentioned us in some comments to a Transhumanist
blogger that used to be a Christian minister . . .

http://www.thepriceofrice.com/2007/05/raised-imperishable.html

The discussion with Roko has expanded, both in the original blog
comments and in a new thread, here:

http://transhumanist.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=658759%3ATopic%3A5588

Transhumanists.org is now talking about whether polygamy should be
condoned by Transhumanists . . .

http://transhumanist.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=658759%3ATopic%3A6261

Now John Howard has introduced us to the Red Mass Group (last time it
was the Blue Mass Group), with the same questions about Mitt Romney:
is he a Mormon Transhumanist? I wager Romney is totally unfamiliar
with Transhumanism. Here is the link:

http://redmassgroup.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=A82C95E5C4326E8687824C6B8871092B?diaryId=342

Mangan's blog on machine intelligence referenced us, as an exception
to their perception of conservatives:

http://mangans.blogspot.com/2007/06/machine-intelligence.html

. . . although I don't consider myself a conservative.

Some persons at the Immortality Institute had some complimentary
things to say about us . . .

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=69&t=15041&st=20

Brent dugg my blog entry on religious tolerance . . .

http://digg.com/world_news/Mormon_Senator_Invites_Hindu_Prayer/who

George Dvorsky is worried that Mormonism is leeching the Transhumanist
meme:

http://sentientdevelopments.blogspot.com/2007/07/transvision-2007-good-bad-and-ugly.html

He's a sharp guy, and it makes sense to me that he would feel this
way. Of course, I don't think "leech" is the right word. I would
choose a euphemism.

Samuel Holmes wrote a letter to Sunstone about our article. It was
printed along with my response in the most recent issue. (03/03/06)

The Fight Aging site quoted our notes on the events of TransVision
2007:

http://www.fightaging.org/archives/001272.php

The New Humanist magazine mentions us and quotes our Affirmation in
its article about Transhumanism:

http://newhumanist.org.uk/1497

I'm not sure which language he's using, but the Kuehleborn's World
blog mentions us:

http://kuehleborn.wordpress.com/tag/transhumanism/

Maht commented on the "By Common Consent" blog that he was captivated
by the idea, expressed in our Sunstone article, that the negative
prophecies associated with the advent of the Millennium might be
avoided, as Ninevah avoided its prophecied destruction.

http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/07/it-is-later-than-you-think/

The "Media for Freedom" web site listed us among supporters for the
first Hindu prayer in the United States senate . . .

http://www.mediaforfreedom.com/ReadArticle.asp?ArticleID=3109

Someone on the Richard Dawkins site compared us to Jehovah's Witnesses
and the Heaven's Gate sect. Wow! What an eclectic group! ;-)

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9837&view=next&sid=f1ef23b05a162d893e755d1b3ccc7715

The author of the "Infeasible" blog noted similarities between
Mormonism and Transhumanism:

http://blog.infeasible.org/2007/08/14/mormonism-and-transhumanism.aspx

"LDS & Mormon Blogs" has added us to their blog list under the
"Science" category:

http://mormon-blogs.com/

Someone discussing Mormonism in the Civilization Fanatics' Forum (yes,
that's the awesome Civilization computer game by Sid Meier) discovered
us and mentioned that we helped him figure out why he felt something
in common with Mormonism.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-172266-p-4.html

Jared at LDS Science Review introduced us to his readers:

http://ldsscience.blogspot.com/2007/10/mormon-transhumanism.html

The "Weird is Relative" blog mentions us . . .

http://zarq.livejournal.com/680893.html

A random john mentioned us in the comments to a post on the Boing
Boing blog:

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/11/06/televangelist-says-a.html

"Son of Man", writing on the Extrobritannia list, mentions us:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extrobritannia/message/4152

Someone mentioned us in comments on the Christianity Today blog . . .
and one of our fellow Mormons responded that, although he's been a
missionary and a bishop, he's never heard of any prophecy about
transfiguration. What?!? :-)

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/comments/allreviews.html?id=50058

There is a strange reference to the association on this page:

http://www.scari.org/Mormons.Unite.html

. . . curious.

This looks like the discussion where one of our newest members,
Jaydfox, found out about us:

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=63&t=19436

Wow. We really frightened (or disgusted?) the admin of this French
site:

http://marialerouxi.aceboard.fr/p-270040-1301-881-2.htm#id22145

We've come up again in comments on a blog entry about presidential
politics:

http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/8140.html

A French blog, Documentaire, references us . . .

http://documentaire.unblog.fr/2008/01/11/lhomme-de-demain/

We got a positive mention (compared to neo-fundamentalist groups) at
Mormon Matters:

http://mormonmatters.org/2008/01/24/a-primer-on-neo-fundamentalism/

We've finally been mentioned on scari.org!!! ;-)

http://www.scari.org/Mormon.Deconstruction.html

. . . and I thought we were strange.

Mangan's Miscellany blog notes that the Mormon idea of eternal
progression parallels ideas associated with the technological
singularity . . .

http://mangans.blogspot.com/2008/01/optimism-vs-pessimism-on-americas.html

A German-language forum discussed us . . .

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://admin.detrans.de/pipermail/forum/2007-January/002698.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=9&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522mormon%2Btranshumanist%2522%26start%3D80%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26pwst%3D1

Someone from the Rumor Mill found it difficult to learn of the
parallels between Mormonism and Transhumanism, as presented in Carl's
video . . .

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=120534

Participants in the Richard Dawkins discussion forum have been
disagreeing over the value of our contribution to the Transhumanist
movement . . .

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=998&start=250

John Howard, who mentioned us on the political sites a while back,
recently mentioned us again in relation to postgenderism.

http://eggandsperm.blogspot.com/2008/04/postgenderism-beyond-gender-binary.html

I'll mention that I disagree with the negative perspective Dvorsky
casts on gender in the paper that Howard references.

A commenter in the Directory of Lost Causes observes that many of the
non-atheist Transhumanists are Mormons, for some reason he cannot
fathom . . .

http://my.opera.com/quentinscrisp/blog/getting-serious

Mormon Chronicles picked up our announcement regarding my presentation
in Second Life next week . . .

http://mormon-chronicles.blogspot.com/2008/05/mormon-transhumanist-association-to.html

A Russian live journal entry posted the text of my presentation from
yesterday in Second Life . . .

http://gptu-navsegda.livejournal.com/91928.html

Here's an interesting discussion that stemmed from one of my recent
presentations in Second Life:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extrobritannia/message/6054

Bryant started a good discussion regarding the New God Argument at the
Mormon Apologetics site . . .

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=37005

Bryant started another thread on the New God Argument at the
apologetics site . . .

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=37211

Chris Smith, who attended our Sunstone Presentation of The New God
Argument, has blogged about his reaction to the presentation.

http://chriscarrollsmith.blogspot.com/2008/08/sunstone-chronicles-day-3.html

It looks like we're the #1 reason Ian Conrad is a Transhumanist! ;-)

http://www.functionalisminaction.com/2007/09/10-reasons-i-am-transhumanist.html

Someone brought up the New God Argument in an automobile discussion
forum . . .

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/topic/130753-new-god-argument.html

. . . really! :-)

We came up during a discussion of Prop 8 on the Blue Mass Group site:

http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=13930

John Howard continues his unwilling promotion of the MTA, through
comments around the Internet. Here's just one example I've bumped into
recently:

http://www.deseretnews.com/user/comments/1,5150,705262133,00.html

The comments below this blog post say we're "really really
weird" . . .

http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2008/11/mormons-makin-trouble.html

This French guy went crazy when he found out about us. :-o

https://secure.gn.apc.org/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=790&start=570

. . . run it through your favorite translator if you don't read
French. It's worth it.

Someone mentioned us on Reddit . . .

http://www.reddit.com/r/Transhuman/comments/7lec9/mormon_transhumanist_association/

. . . poor militant atheists. ;-)

Here's another mention on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7o64s/the_mormon_transhumanists_assn_seems_to_say_those/

. . . from an astute observer that identified our position that a
little magic and 10% of your income is all it takes to make your
wildest dreams come true. ;-)

James Hughes mentioned us in a recent interview:

http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/a-progressive-interpretation-of-transhumanist-politics/2009/02/13

We received attention in a paper by Ronald Cole-Turner:

http://www.metanexus.net/conference2008/articles/Default.aspx?id=10445

We were referenced in a paper by Michael Zimmerman:

http://www.cosmosandhistory.org/index.php/journal/article/view/187/253

[Lincoln Cannon]

We finally made it into the "Just in from Can't Make This Stuff Up
Dept"! ;-)

http://twitter.com/tag_singularity/statuses/5569401112

On Nov 5, 10:52 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> Who cares about the MTA? This thread is the answer. Here are some old
> links from the legacy site to blogs and other web pages with content
> from persons, friendly or not, that care . . .
>
> It looks like we've become part of a political discussion related to
> Romney . . .
>
> http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showComment.do?commentId=43846
>
> The Freedom of Religion board also found us . . .
>
> http://freedomofreligion.myfreeforum.org/ftopic268.php
>
> . . . as did the Tribal War board:
>
> http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-462725.html
>
> . . . and they think we're crazy. :-)
>
> The Mormon Apologetics and Discussion board introduced the topic of
> the Singularity, and our own Buraianto joined in the
> conversation . . .
>
> http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=20534
>
> It looks like the German Transhumanists have linked to our
> Transfigurism News site.
>

> http://www.transhumanismus.demokratietheorie.de/2007/01/01/transfigur...

>
> We got the "weird" tag from the Omniorthogonal blog. :-)
>

> http://omniorthogonal.blogspot.com/2007/01/every-human-grouping-is-on...

>
> The whump.com "More Like This" blog just linked to us:
>

> http://www.whump.com/moreLikeThis/2007/01/05/uploaded-saints-and-sing...

>
> That guy on the Blue Mass Group site that wants to know whether Mitt
> Romney is a Mormon Transhumanist is now calling us nut jobs.
> Awesome. ;-)
>
> http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5725
>
> It's confirmed. By the mouths of two witnesses, we deserve the "weird"
> tag:
>
> http://www.velcro-city.co.uk/links-for-09-01-2007/
>
> . . . at the Velcro City Tourist Board.
>
> Someone at the "Making Light" blog, who shouldn't have been surprised
> to find us . . . was:
>
> http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008472.html
>
> . . . and the Blue Mass guy continues promoting us -- the nutjobs.
>
> http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5985
>
> The Orbital Teapot blog has some good things to say about us, here:
>

> http://orbitalteapot.blogspot.com/2007/01/mormon-transhumanist-associ...

>
> Richard Dawkins' discussion forum found us . . .
>

> http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98697&highlight=mormo...

>
> . . . and we're attacking with flying wheels! ;-)
>
> Yahoo! Answers is trying to decide whether we're okay . . .
>
> http://sg.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070215133349AA6afmu
>
> The Universal Immortalism folks brought us up in conversation
> regarding affiliation with the WTA:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/message/1160
>
> It looks like our own Arcturus may be a member of that group. In any
> case, I hope they're not prevented from affiliating with the WTA. We
> have too much in common to worry about being against other
> Transhumanist groups.
>
> Awesome! We've arrived at the Portal of Evil! ;-)
>
> http://www.portalofevil.com/single.php?poeurlid=000039553
>
> . . . sad and lonely -- I suppose we all have our days.
>
> A few Mormon members of the Nightstar Zoo thought we looked good on
> the surface, but left a bad taste in their mouths . . .
>

> http://zoo.nightstar.net/viewtopic.php?t=15947&sid=d5f7888ac9764626b4...

>
> Now we're the butt -- really -- of an alien abduction joke. ;-)
>

> http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.kibology/chi_tonw_27108734m.html...

>
> La Explanada de Avente blog found us:
>
> http://explanadadeavente.blogspot.com/2007/03/mormon-transhumanism.html
>
> . . . and includes some insightful comments.
>
> We came up during a conversation about artificial intelligence on
> Michael Anissimov's blog:
>
> http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/?p=405
>
> The Boy in the Machine found us, an unholy union of Transhumanism and
> Mormonism. ;-)
>

> http://boyinthemachine.blogspot.com/2007/04/mormonism-transhumanism-s...

>
> Qyxxql_merlin shares some thoughts regarding my Second Life
> presentation . . .
>
> http://qyxxql-merlin.livejournal.com/3054.html
>
> Qyxxql_merlin continues thoughts on the MTA, including reflections on
> an email exchange with me . . .
>
> http://qyxxql-merlin.livejournal.com/2007/05/18/
>
> Michael Anissimov mentioned us in some comments to a Transhumanist
> blogger that used to be a Christian minister . . .
>
> http://www.thepriceofrice.com/2007/05/raised-imperishable.html
>
> The discussion with Roko has expanded, both in the original blog
> comments and in a new thread, here:
>
> http://transhumanist.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=658759%3ATopic%3A5588
>
> Transhumanists.org is now talking about whether polygamy should be
> condoned by Transhumanists . . .
>
> http://transhumanist.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=658759%3ATopic%3A6261
>
> Now John Howard has introduced us to the Red Mass Group (last time it
> was the Blue Mass Group), with the same questions about Mitt Romney:
> is he a Mormon Transhumanist? I wager Romney is totally unfamiliar
> with Transhumanism. Here is the link:
>

> http://redmassgroup.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=A82C95E5C4326E8687824...

>
> Mangan's blog on machine intelligence referenced us, as an exception
> to their perception of conservatives:
>
> http://mangans.blogspot.com/2007/06/machine-intelligence.html
>
>  . . . although I don't consider myself a conservative.
>
> Some persons at the Immortality Institute had some complimentary
> things to say about us . . .
>
> http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=69&t=15041&st=20
>
> Brent dugg my blog entry on religious tolerance . . .
>
> http://digg.com/world_news/Mormon_Senator_Invites_Hindu_Prayer/who
>
> George Dvorsky is worried that Mormonism is leeching the Transhumanist
> meme:
>

> http://sentientdevelopments.blogspot.com/2007/07/transvision-2007-goo...

>
> He's a sharp guy, and it makes sense to me that he would feel this
> way. Of course, I don't think "leech" is the right word. I would
> choose a euphemism.
>
> Samuel Holmes wrote a letter to Sunstone about our article. It was
> printed along with my response in the most recent issue. (03/03/06)
>
> The Fight Aging site quoted our notes on the events of TransVision
> 2007:
>
> http://www.fightaging.org/archives/001272.php
>
> The New Humanist magazine mentions us and quotes our Affirmation in
> its article about Transhumanism:
>
> http://newhumanist.org.uk/1497
>
> I'm not sure which language he's using, but the Kuehleborn's World
> blog mentions us:
>
> http://kuehleborn.wordpress.com/tag/transhumanism/
>
> Maht commented on the "By Common Consent" blog that he was captivated
> by the idea, expressed in our Sunstone article, that the negative
> prophecies associated with the advent of the Millennium might be
> avoided, as Ninevah avoided its prophecied destruction.
>
> http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/07/it-is-later-than-you-think/
>
> The "Media for Freedom" web site listed us among supporters for the
> first Hindu prayer in the United States senate . . .
>
> http://www.mediaforfreedom.com/ReadArticle.asp?ArticleID=3109
>
> Someone on the Richard Dawkins site compared us to Jehovah's Witnesses
> and the Heaven's Gate sect. Wow! What an eclectic group! ;-)
>

> http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9837&view=next&sid=f1...

> http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=63&...

>
> Wow. We really frightened (or disgusted?) the admin of this French
> site:
>
> http://marialerouxi.aceboard.fr/p-270040-1301-881-2.htm#id22145
>
> We've come up again in comments on a blog entry about presidential
> politics:
>
> http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/8140.html
>
> A French blog, Documentaire, references us . . .
>
> http://documentaire.unblog.fr/2008/01/11/lhomme-de-demain/
>
> We got a positive mention (compared to neo-fundamentalist groups) at
> Mormon Matters:
>
> http://mormonmatters.org/2008/01/24/a-primer-on-neo-fundamentalism/
>
> We've finally been mentioned on scari.org!!! ;-)
>
> http://www.scari.org/Mormon.Deconstruction.html
>
> . . . and I thought we were strange.
>
> Mangan's Miscellany blog notes that the Mormon idea of eternal
> progression parallels ideas associated with the technological
> singularity . . .
>

> http://mangans.blogspot.com/2008/01/optimism-vs-pessimism-on-americas...
>
> A German-language forum discussed us . . ....
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

The Trans-Alchemy feed linked to Daniel's recent post about the MTA:

http://twitter.com/Trans_Alchemy/statuses/5550389597

> > We've finally been mentioned on...
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

We received a complimentary paragraph from Michael Anissimov on the
Accelerating Future blog:

http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2009/11/atheism-done-right/

> > > site:...
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

The SobekPtah Live Journal links to us and says: Behold!

http://sobekptah.livejournal.com/221501.html

On Nov 10, 9:11 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> We received a complimentary paragraph from Michael Anissimov on the
> Accelerating Future blog:
>

> http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2009/11/atheism-done-r...

>
> On Nov 10, 9:06 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The Trans-Alchemy feed linked to Daniel's recent post about the MTA:
>
> >http://twitter.com/Trans_Alchemy/statuses/5550389597
>
> > On Nov 10, 9:01 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> > > We finally made it into the "Just in from Can't Make This Stuff Up
> > > Dept"! ;-)
>
> > >http://twitter.com/tag_singularity/statuses/5569401112
>
> > > On Nov 5, 10:52 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>

> > > > Whocaresabout the MTA? This thread is the answer. Here are some old

> ...
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

One of the participants in this discussion associates Mormon
Transhumanism with "cool stuff" . . .

http://www.metal-rules.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1590252&sid=6b202b498b3869b1ee7db109eadddfcc

. . . and here's a guy trying to start a discussion about Mormon
Transhumanism at religiousforums.com:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/latter-day-saints/89910-transhumanism-mormonism.html

At least he gets a tweet from Trans_Alchemy:

http://twitter.com/Trans_Alchemy/statuses/6366343834

> ...
>
> read more »

[Timothy Sweet]

That guy on religiousforums.com was me. I just found out about it and I think It is definitely interesting and plausible that tranhumanism fits in perfectly with LDS doctrine.

Are you on religiousforums.com? I'm MadHatter85

>
> > > > > A random john mentioned us in the comments to a post on the Boing
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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[Lincoln Cannon]

I'm not on religiousforums.com, but for several years I participated in a similar forum at Beliefnet -- used the name "Arosophos".

[Lincoln Cannon]

"Truthchaser" associates us with the New World Order:

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3793&start=80&sid=8c0f4f932458f3543de4dc9353ac2671

Some members of the Immortality Institute are wondering why Mormon
Transhumanists would advocate immortality in this world rather than
going to heaven? They don't know that Mormon scripture teaches that
this world will become our heaven.

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35481&st=0&gopid=368745&#entry368745

. . . and here's a mysterious one. I received an alert that the phrase
"Mormon Transhumanist" appeared on the following page, but it doesn't
appear to be there any longer. It's a page from the LDS Church
technology site. Note, too, their first cultural belief: "Receive
revelation: I call down the Lord’s help in doing my work to aid in
exalting the human family." That's a Mormon Transhumanist perspective,
if ever I saw one.

http://tech.lds.org/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=302:using-cultural-beliefs-to-accomplish-our-goal&amp;catid=1:miscellanous&utm_campaign=Feed:+transfigurism+(Mormon+Transhumanist+Association+Feeds)

On Dec 9, 9:09 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> One of the participants in this discussion associates Mormon
> Transhumanism with "cool stuff" . . .
>

> http://www.metal-rules.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1590252&sid=6b202b498b3...

>
> . . . and here's a guy trying to start a discussion about Mormon
> Transhumanism at religiousforums.com:
>

> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/latter-day-saints/89910-transhum...

> > > > > > Mormonism and Transhumanism:...
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

An upstart magazine editor wants to include content about Mormon
Transhumanists . . .

http://smf.rantradio.com/index.php?topic=2378.0

On Dec 12 2009, 10:14 am, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net>
wrote:

> "Truthchaser" associates us with the New World Order:
>

> http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3793&start=80&s...

>
> Some members of the Immortality Institute are wondering why Mormon
> Transhumanists would advocate immortality in this world rather than
> going to heaven? They don't know that Mormon scripture teaches that
> this world will become our heaven.
>

> http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35481&st=0&gopid=368...

>
> . . . and here's a mysterious one. I received an alert that the phrase
> "Mormon Transhumanist" appeared on the following page, but it doesn't
> appear to be there any longer. It's a page from the LDS Church
> technology site. Note, too, their first cultural belief: "Receive
> revelation: I call down the Lord’s help in doing my work to aid in
> exalting the human family." That's a Mormon Transhumanist perspective,
> if ever I saw one.
>

> http://tech.lds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...)

> ...
>
> read more »

[Premise Checker]

The Prophet of the Church is slow to pontificate on these matters, since
the days of revelation have ground to a near halt. It has followed what
Max Weber called the "routinization of charisma" into a
rational-legal-bureaucratic order. Whether this already means the arrival
of the Second Great Apostasy is unclear.

Meantime, we are certainly free to pronounce that the general thrust of
Mormonism is self-improvement in this life and the next life and that God
himself is an improved man. It is only a small extension to hold that
self-improvement is this life mandates the use of technology to the
fullest. That this is so is not something that the Church currently
endorses, for the simple reason that bureaucracies are sluggish to endorse
anything but the blandest. And the ever-ready potential of fresh
revelations to do the job remains, however unlikely that they will undergo
what is not the necessary bureaucratic vesting.

We need not ourselves wait. We are free to make our own extensions, at
least until the Church formally says otherwise.

Full speed, not 1/100th bureaucratic speed, ahead!

On 2010-01-01, Lincoln Cannon opined [message unchanged below]:

> An upstart magazine editor wants to include content about Mormon
> Transhumanists . . .
>
> http://smf.rantradio.com/index.php?topic=2378.0
>
>
> On Dec 12 2009, 10:14 am, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net>
> wrote:
>> "Truthchaser" associates us with the New World Order:
>>
>> http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3793&start=80&s...
>>
>> Some members of the Immortality Institute are wondering why Mormon
>> Transhumanists would advocate immortality in this world rather than
>> going to heaven? They don't know that Mormon scripture teaches that
>> this world will become our heaven.
>>
>> http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35481&st=0&gopid=368...
>>
>> . . . and here's a mysterious one. I received an alert that the phrase
>> "Mormon Transhumanist" appeared on the following page, but it doesn't
>> appear to be there any longer. It's a page from the LDS Church
>> technology site. Note, too, their first cultural belief: "Receive

>> revelation: I call down the Lord?s help in doing my work to aid in

[Timothy Sweet]

Sorry to butt in like this. But, If you think for one second that revelation in the Church is stagnate you are terribly mistaken. Also, the idea of a second great apostasy is false and I don't see any kind of reconciliation between believing that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and thinking the priesthood/gospel will be taken from the earth again.

...
>>
>>>>>>>> He's a sharp guy, and it makes sense to me that he would feel this
>>>>>>>> way. Of course, I don't think "leech" is the right word. I would
>>>>>>>> choose a euphemism.
>>
>>>>>>>> Samuel Holmes wrote a letter to Sunstone about our article. It was
>>>>>>>> printed along with my response in the most recent issue. (03/03/06)
>>
>>>>>>>> The Fight Aging site quoted our notes on the events of
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »

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[Lincoln Cannon]

Hi Timothy. Please don't apologize. You're a member of the association, and you're more than welcome to engage in the conversation. I'm interested to know what Frank thinks of your response that his anticipation of a second apostasy is incompatible with considering Joseph a prophet.  

[David Foster]

Timothy,

I have never heard the phrase "second great apostasy" before, but you might be interested in some of the prophecies of Heber C Kimball where he refers to SLC being classed among the wicked cities of the World, or Isaiah where he refers to a great cleansing. None of this means the Church will fail, or be taken away, but that many simply will not live what they know. If even the very elect will be deceived, then I am not surprised by any person or group of people apostatizing.

As for revelation... it has changed in form, but even under Joseph, he was not continually adding to the Canon of scripture. Look at the dates of revelations in the D&C. Over half were received by 1832.

Now let's all take a deep breath, and say, Happy New Year!

David

[Timothy Sweet]

I am very well aware of the prophecies concerning SLC, and I believe the great cleansing to be the sifting of the wheat and tares. I know the Church will be building Zion not in Salt Lake but in Missouri near Adam-Ondi-Ahman, or at least that is what I have understood it to be my whole life. I also firmly believe the sifting of the wheat and tares is happening now. I know of a lot of people who seem to think the Church leaders are not inspired and therefore their testimonies are at stake. I feel alot of people forget how the spirit works. Most of us will not have grandiose revelations with angels or anything like that. As for myself, and my personal revelations, they have come in dreams/visions and every time I have heeded the counsel I felt I had received everything has worked out perfectly. Those who are Apostles are not perfect men, however, they fit the category as lined out perfectly in the D&C 121:

  45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.   46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.

Once you have reached the point where your election is made sure you don't even need to think about it to have revelations or instructions given to you. You will always know what the correct things to do or say are.

To touch back on recent revelations in the church, I believe 3 years ago Gordon B. Hinkley changed his topic for the talk he was going to give at the General Priesthood Session at the last minute to talk about anger and I have never heard a more serious talk in all of my life. He was not the cherry Gordon B Hinkley he always was previously. In that talk he said nothing short of telling the priesthood holders that if they abuse their children or spouses that they were going to hell. I call hogwash on anyone who believes that was not direct inspiration/revelation. No, the heavens are not closed and the Church is not operated bureaucratically.

Ok I will end my rant sorry if I offended anyone.

[Carl Youngblood]

Timothy, thanks for your comments. My personal opinion on this matter
is that it is not necessary to have a black/white either/or mentality
in regards to the inspiration that occurs in the church. I prefer to
look ask the question, "Is God's work being done here?" In many cases
I can answer with an emphatic yes. In some instances I feel
constrained to acknowledge that setbacks, mistakes, and sins occur,
even in "the Lord's" church. This doesn't mean we need to abandon it,
but if we can see these weaknesses for what they are, then we will be
that much more likely to work towards their eradication and help Zion
"put on its beautiful garments."

For me, there is no question that there has to be a certain level of
bureaucracy in the Church for it to function at the scale it does, and
this is in most cases a good thing. How else would the church
efficiently collect its tithing revenues if it did not have a
bureaucracy in place to do so? I understand that you were using this
term in a slightly different context than I am, but I think it's
important for us to have realistic expectations of how the church is
administered, rather than thinking that the dot on every I and the
dash on every T was directly inspired by God. Terryl Givens has some
good things to say about such unrealistic expectations and how they
can prevent us from actively seeking improvement and additional truth
in the present:

"Mormons can be too quick to see all texts written previous to 1830 as
potential proof texts, to see Jesus' ministrations to Mary and Martha
as foreshadowing the home teaching program, every sunken Mesoamerican
hole in the ground as a baptismal font, and so on. We are too quick,
in other words, to see these other systems and phenomena as deriving
their value in proportion to their capacity to anticipate a
Restoration that we treat as full and complete. It's not, as prophets
from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to President Kimball have reminded
us." ("When Souls Had Wings: What the Western Tradition Has to teach
Us About Pre-Existence", Terryl Givens, FAIR 2007 Conference,
http://fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2007_When_Souls_Had_Wings.html)

I wish you all the best, Timothy, and look forward to your continued
participation.

Cheers,
Carl Youngblood

[Doe Daughtrey]

I hd deciswd to stay out of this one, but its the New Year and I've
declred that I'm thrpught stiffling myself....;-) So I hope this will
come across as I intend it to.

President Hinckley's talk could have easily been given by anyone who
felt strongly about abuse or had been paying attention to statistics.
Plus, the Church has paid out mullions of dollars settling abuse cases
it handled badly. So I don't consider a talk like that either
revelatory OR prophetic. Revelation, by definition, reveals something,
isn't something we already logically know. "Be good to each other"
isn't revelation. We don't even need religion to figure that one out.

Respectfully,
Doe

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>> >
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>>
>>
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[Carl Youngblood]

Doe, all of what you said is true, and I agree that we shouldn't be
too quick to assume inspiredness in every little thing that the
prophet does, but I also think that it's just as possible to be
inspired in little things as it is big ones. There's truth to the
cliché that the beating of a butterfly's wings can affect the course
of a hurricane. I think it's important for us to avoid both the trap
of gullibility and excessive skepticism.

[Doe Daughtrey]

I should also have said that the talk you referred to was a wonderful
talk and it had an important impact on listeners. It touched a lot of
hearts. However, that still doesn't make it revelation or prophecy. At
least not in my book.

I love the Givens quote. Thanks for that!

And please forgive my typos...The Blackberry Storm is awful to type on!

Cheers,
Doe

[Doe Daughtrey]

I do agree, Carl. I believe in that.

Doe

[Timothy Sweet]

I understand more clearly where you are coming from with the idea that we have not yet received everything there is. I know we have only received what we are able to accomplish or accept at this time. Much like the saints and the united Order or Law of Consecration as practised during the early church days. The saints were not prepared or willing to follow what the Lord had in store for them. There will come a time when governments will collapse, the hearts of men fail them and the Church will be literally asked to step in and take over because the standard that we have built will surely attract the "gaze of all the earth." And to a certain extent it already has, the world already recognizes our ability to respond to disasters. The Church is by far the wealthiest religion per--capita than any other religion and our welfare and relief system in place is second only to the united nations in size and capacity. In the event of a governmental meltdown or economic disaster, it has been stated by non-lds journalists and researchers that Mormons, as a whole, are less likely to be impacted and in most cases are in a position to help those immediately around them in times of crisis. Anyways, my point was that  I understand how you feel about the administration and logistics of the Church, however I do believe they make inspired decisions when handling monies and goods collected for the church, administrative tasks, etc... If they did not we would be just like any other church in that we wouldn't have the ability to the do things we do every day.

Now it has always been my belief that the promised the Lord makes as to our welfare and well-being if we follow his commands are not magical or mystical but rather simple, even natural or scientific (if you will) consequences of choices, thoughts, or actions.

[Lincoln Cannon]

Doe, would you agree that "be good to each other" is prophetic, not in
a narrow sectarian sense, but in a broad ecumenical sense that
recognizes thinking, speaking and acting according to the spirit of
Christ as prophecy, in line with the teachings of Paul in the New
Testament? . . . the great mystery hidden from ages is Christ in you,
the hope of glory, which works in you now to fill up that which is
behind of the afflictions of Christ.

[Carl Youngblood]

Timothy, I don't think we disagree on the larger issues. My main point
is that it isn't simply 100% vs 0% inspiration. I do believe that the
Lord is guiding the Church. I don't know exactly how the future is
going to unfold or to what extent some of the folklore you refer to
will come to pass, most of which is uncanonical. I do believe that the
Church is in a unique position to do good in the world due to the
singular combination of capability and desire in its members and
leadership, which no doubt is the result of inspiration and
revelation. I also believe that the Lord is pouring out knowledge upon
all the world, not just members of the church, and that much of the
revelation that will be necessary for the establishment of Zion is
being revealed to all sorts of people all over the world.

[Doe Daughtrey]

Yes, I completely agree! But I don't believe that it is limited to the Christian tradition or Christ as a person/entity or, as I suggested, religion in general. Secular humanists, Buddhists, and Hindus also have morals. And I also get that most Mormons (and probably most Christians in general--at least in North America) believe that Christ is at the heart of all moral systems. It is important to remember and respect, though, that those people don't.

I want to add one more thing to my piece on revelation... especially as it concerns the abuse issue (though you can extend it to any issue): Had an LDS Church president come out explicitly against abuse before the issue of abuse had become a national conversation, had an LDS Church president changed Church policies regarding how abuse allegations were handled in the Church (thus saving the Church millions of dollars and those abused countless hours of agony, shame, and fear), I would have considered that revelation and/or prophecy. After the fact, change and acknowledgment is welcome, but for me it does not constitute revelation and/or prophecy.

Doe

Doe D.

[Doe Daughtrey]

Amen, Carl!
Doe

Doe D.

[Giulio Prisco]

This thread is interesting and illuminating for one, like me, who is a member of the MTA but not of the LDS.

Let me ask a few questions:

I want to read a good LDS book, which one should I read first?

Why is the LDS "better" than other Christian denominations?

I consider the MTA as the best bridge between religion and transhumanism. How to "export" it to other Christian denominations and different religions?

--
Giulio Prisco
giu...@gmail.com
(39)3387219799

On Jan 2, 2010 6:16 PM, "Carl Youngblood" <carl.yo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Timothy, I don't think we disagree on the larger issues. My main point
is that it isn't simply 100% vs 0% inspiration. I do believe that the
Lord is guiding the Church. I don't know exactly how the future is
going to unfold or to what extent some of the folklore you refer to
will come to pass, most of which is uncanonical. I do believe that the
Church is in a unique position to do good in the world due to the
singular combination of capability and desire in its members and
leadership, which no doubt is the result of inspiration and
revelation. I also believe that the Lord is pouring out knowledge upon
all the world, not just members of the church, and that much of the
revelation that will be necessary for the establishment of Zion is
being revealed to all sorts of people all over the world.

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 5:55 PM, Timothy Sweet <timot...@gmail.com> wrote: > I understand more cle...

[Carl Youngblood]

Hi Giulio!

This is kind of a difficult question for me. I could mention the
standard reading material from the Book of Mormon and other scriptures
that most missionaries recommend to people who are learning about the
church, but this would give you a limited view of some of our
doctrines and not necessarily a broad overview.

I think one good source would be Richard Bushman's Mormonism: A Very
Short Introduction, from Oxford University Press:

http://www.amazon.com/Mormonism-Very-Short-Introduction-Introductions/dp/0195310306

That book will have many other references, should you desire to explore further.

If you have certain specific interests, such as the Church's history
or philosophical underpinnings, I can recommend more books on those
subjects.

Best wishes,
Carl

[Doe Daughtrey]

When I was looking to join the Church I went to the local library and checked out "A Marvelous Work and a Wonder." Perhaps this is why I'm disenchanted with a disenchanted Mormonism.

Doe

--
Doe D.

[Carl Youngblood]

I think that, for its time, that book was a good one. However, a lot has happened since then to give us a more nuanced view on the Church and its history.

[Timothy Sweet]

As for LDS books, I would suggest The Book of Mormon for one. It's free and no other book can quite define what we believe from a fundamental perspective than this one. After that to get the basis for what we believe, the I would have to suggest "The Plan of Salvation: Our Divine Origin and Destiny by Matthew B Brown, no other book I have read has outlined in a very simple way all of the most pressing LDS questions.. If you want to learn about Joseph Smith I would suggest "Rough Stone Rolling" by Richard Bushman.

the question of why the LDS denomination is "Better" is a very subjective one. However they are very many key differences between us and other Christian Denominations. #1 we believe God and Jesus Christ to be separate individuals with different roles to play in the Plan of salvation and that they have physical bodies similar to ours in both design and function but glorified, perfected, and immortal. We also believe that all mankind existed, before we came to this earth, as literal spirit children of God without physical bodies and we desired to become like our him. To which he presented the plan for us to achieve that and even outlined the risks for us here on earth. all who accepted his plan, have lived, currently live, or will be born on earth. We also believe in salvation for the dead and those who died without a knowledge of God or had the opportunity to accept the gospel, which to an extent required our participation here in the latter-days by doing work by proxy for our ancestors within the walls of our temples. I personally believe that God is an organizer of things rather than a outright "creator" and that he went through the same motions we are going through now to achieve his status. That if we strive with due diligence to follow his counsel we can have an eternal increase in both knowledge and posterity in the eternities to come.

I don't know if you could really export transhumanism to other religions because simply they do not believe that there is much after this life in terms of perfection and view science as a threat to religion. However with in the LDS faith, science is primarily viewed as a "How" God works rather than a "why."

you may find interesting that there were studies done that show LDS membership becomes more active in their religious activities the more formal education they have, this is opposite to what is found in other denominations where church membership and activity declines as people become more formally educated.

From: Latter-day Saint Demographics/LDS Statistics/ Mormon statistics

Quote:

As Latter-day Saints become more educated, they are more likely to be active Church participants, a trend opposite what is found in most denominations (online source: http://www.byuh.edu/kealakai/current...education.html).

[Doe Daughtrey]

Exactly.
Doe

[Joseph]

Carl, I've enjoyed your last few posts.

I think what Doe and others are resisting is the common notions of
what revelation means in the modern church. The greatest
organizational coup that the modern LDS orthodoxy pulled off, is in
the way they've hijacked the word "prophet". Last year I taught 8 and
9 year old children, and not one of them believed that they were or
could be prophets. Because in our culture that word is saved to refer
to the presiding high priests of the organization -- all men, of
course. If there was one thing those kids learned in that class (about
10-15 times per class), it is that each of them are prophets, to
whatever extent they have faith in Christ, which is the will to
atonement.

The reference to Weber was spot on. You read Weber's work on charisma
as a Mormon whose eyes are not shaded by the misrecognition
perpetuated by orthodox cultural understandings. It will give you
chills. You'll be going, this guy had to be talking about the LDS
Church when he wrote this stuff!

On Jan 2, 11:00 am, Doe Daughtrey <ddaught...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Exactly.
> Doe
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Carl Youngblood

> <carl.youngbl...@gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
>
> > I think that, for its time, that book was a good one. However, a lot has
> > happened since then to give us a more nuanced view on the Church and its
> > history.
>

> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Doe Daughtrey <ddaught...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> When I was looking to join the Church I went to the local library and
> >> checked out "A Marvelous Work and a Wonder." Perhaps this is why I'm

> >> disenchanted with a disenchanted Mormonism. [?]

>
> >> Doe
>
> >> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Carl Youngblood <
> >> carl.youngbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Hi Giulio!
>
> >>> This is kind of a difficult question for me. I could mention the
> >>> standard reading material from the Book of Mormon and other scriptures
> >>> that most missionaries recommend to people who are learning about the
> >>> church, but this would give you a limited view of some of our
> >>> doctrines and not necessarily a broad overview.
>
> >>> I think one good source would be Richard Bushman's Mormonism: A Very
> >>> Short Introduction, from Oxford University Press:
>

> >>>http://www.amazon.com/Mormonism-Very-Short-Introduction-Introductions...

>
> >>> That book will have many other references, should you desire to explore
> >>> further.
>
> >>> If you have certain specific interests, such as the Church's history
> >>> or philosophical underpinnings, I can recommend more books on those
> >>> subjects.
>
> >>> Best wishes,
> >>> Carl
>
> >>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Giulio Prisco <giu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > This thread is interesting and illuminating for one, like me, who is a
> >>> > member of the MTA but not of the LDS.
>
> >>> > Let me ask a few questions:
>
> >>> > I want to read a good LDS book, which one should I read first?
>
> >>> > Why is the LDS "better" than other Christian denominations?
>
> >>> > I consider the MTA as the best bridge between religion and
> >>> transhumanism.
> >>> > How to "export" it to other Christian denominations and different
> >>> religions?
>
> >>> > --
> >>> > Giulio Prisco
> >>> > giu...@gmail.com
> >>> > (39)3387219799
>

> >>> > On Jan 2, 2010 6:16 PM, "Carl Youngblood" <carl.youngbl...@gmail.com>

> >>> wrote:
>
> >>> > Timothy, I don't think we disagree on the larger issues. My main point
> >>> > is that it isn't simply 100% vs 0% inspiration. I do believe that the
> >>> > Lord is guiding the Church. I don't know exactly how the future is
> >>> > going to unfold or to what extent some of the folklore you refer to
> >>> > will come to pass, most of which is uncanonical. I do believe that the
> >>> > Church is in a unique position to do good in the world due to the
> >>> > singular combination of capability and desire in its members and
> >>> > leadership, which no doubt is the result of inspiration and
> >>> > revelation. I also believe that the Lord is pouring out knowledge upon
> >>> > all the world, not just members of the church, and that much of the
> >>> > revelation that will be necessary for the establishment of Zion is
> >>> > being revealed to all sorts of people all over the world.
>

> >>> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 5:55 PM, Timothy Sweet <timothy...@gmail.com>

> >>> wrote:
> >>> >> I understand more cle...
>
> >>> > --
>
> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>> Groups
> >>> > "Mormon Transhumanist Association" group.
> >>> > To post to this group, send email to transf...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> >>> > transfiguris...@googlegroups.com<transfigurism%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> >>> .
> >>> > For more options, visit this group at
> >>> >http://groups.google.com/group/transfigurism?hl=en.
>
> >>> --
>
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >>> "Mormon Transhumanist Association" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to transf...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> >>> transfiguris...@googlegroups.com<transfigurism%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> >>> .
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/transfigurism?hl=en.
>
> >> --
> >> Doe D.
>
> >>  --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Mormon Transhumanist Association" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to transf...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> >> transfiguris...@googlegroups.com<transfigurism%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/transfigurism?hl=en.
>
> >  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Mormon Transhumanist Association" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to transf...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > transfiguris...@googlegroups.com<transfigurism%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/transfigurism?hl=en.
>
> --
> Doe D.
>

>  33D.gif
> < 1KViewDownload

[Timothy Sweet]

That would be the fault of the parents and teachers not teaching them correctly what a prophet is.

The church has never hijacked the word Prophet, if you look in the many talks given by prophets and even the Bible Dictionary it is clearly outlined what a Prophet is.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gs/p/65
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/p/61

Numbers 11:
29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord’s people were aprophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

Everyone has the potential to be a Prophet and to prophesy according to the Lord's will. However, the only man who holds the keys to administer the church as a whole and to receive revelation for the entire world as a whole is the current Prophet or President of the Church. all the Apostles are Prophets/Seers/Revelators. If children do not understand that they are being taught incorrectly.

.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to transfiguris...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/transfigurism?hl=en.

[Carl Youngblood]

Thanks Joey. I don't believe I refered to Weber though. Was that someone else?

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to transfiguris...@googlegroups.com.

[Joseph]

Timothy Sweet-

If the fact that our children are being taught incorrectly is not a
sign of apostasy, then what is?

The church is what the church does. In my opinion, the attempt to
abstract the perfectness of the church and its teachings away from
real, flesh and blood, day-to-day practices of the Mormon people,
serves only to perpetuate the misrecognition of both the potential and
limits of this people, this church.

On Jan 2, 4:10 pm, Timothy Sweet <timothy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That would be the fault of the parents and teachers not teaching them
> correctly what a prophet is.
>
> The church has never hijacked the word Prophet, if you look in the many
> talks given by prophets and even the Bible Dictionary it is clearly
> outlined what a Prophet is.
>

> http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gs/p/65http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/p/61

[Timothy Sweet]

Personal apostasy i think is even a stretch, Simply put people are not perfect. Hardly worthy judging apostasy against them or the church especially for it.

People are only limited by themselves. By taking advantage of the atonement we all have the same potential for righteous perfection.

Claiming Apostasy because a few people in the church are not teaching the right things is a cop-out, instead of correcting the problem beginning with those whom we have influence over.

Simply put if the books and guides for teaching were wholly incorrect, then there would be a problem, However the Study guides and helps clearly point out correct principles and the teachers and parents need to teach from them, not their own opinions.

[Carl Youngblood]

Timothy, in this particular case (teachings about prophets), I think
that misinterpretations are widespread and often deliberate. I believe
that the vast majority of the church is deliberately teaching this
doctrine differently than it has been taught and than it is stated in
our scriptures and earlier sermons. The doctrine is rarely stated and
when stated, emphasis is almost always made on the disclaimer about
limitations of stewardship and not the original admonition to
prophesy. I think people are too afraid of this doctrine to do it
justice, most of the time. This is just my personal opinion.

[Doe Daughtrey]

I'm with you, Carl, as usual.

Doe

Doe D.

[Timothy Sweet]

They are afraid because they don't understand it. The best thing to do is do something about it. Correct the misinterpretations, bring it up to the bishop and/or stake president. Instead of copping out by claiming apostasy, help to curb the misunderstandings and help people teach true doctrines. It really is that simple.

[Doe Daughtrey]

And which doctrine is "true"?

Doe

Doe D.

[Timothy Sweet]

This is actually similar to a conversation I had with a Missionary and the Sunday School Teacher in my ward because I have noticed the Priesthood brethren do not exercise the priesthood in the way I was taught to do. I noticed it especially in Priesthood Blessings, including blessings for the sick and blessings for children. It seemed to me that many brethren turn it into a supplication rather than a authoritative priesthood blessing as directed by the spirit. The SS Teacher piped up immediately knowing what I was talking about with a "It's because not everyone has the same faith, they are afraid of offending God." The Missionary I talked to had given me a blessing because I was sick and about to travel to Alabama for a week. In the blessing he commanded the ailment to leave me using the priesthood and I tell you now that I passed out for 3 hours, woke up and I was no longer sick and felt fantastic. I expressed my appreciation for him and how he understands the power and authority of the priesthood and that he has enough faith to know that he would never say something that was contrary to the will of God because his faith makes him receptive to the spirit.

On Mon, 2010-01-04 at 19:40 +0100, Carl Youngblood wrote:

[Timothy Sweet]

True doctrine is outlined in the scriptures and as stated by the Lord's Prophets. In the case of the incorrect teaching of What a Prophet is, if you simply turn tot he Bible Dictionary and read the section on Prophets or look on-line at any of the study helps for the scriptures you will see that the Church nor it's leadership ever "hijacked" the term Prophet.

[Carl Youngblood]

Timothy, I just want to add that I hesitate to use "apostasy" (Joey's
words, not mine) just because the word has pretty strong connotations
among Mormons and is stronger a characterization than I want to make.

I agree that the teaching materials mostly support your claims, but I
think there is a discrepancy between principle and practice here that
is more widespread than you're claiming, and I think that it points to
a systemic reason for this. I don't think it's accurate to say that
the members are simply not righteous enough. I think they learn these
behaviors by the way the church is managed and by the behaviors that
are encouraged and discouraged by members and leaders at all levels of
the hierarchy.

Nobody gets in trouble for going with the flow but I think real
goodness sometimes requires people to do things that require courage
and faith and sometimes cause others to be uncomfortable, even
leaders. From my own observations, the degree to which leaders feel
uncomfortable about such ministrations generally is correlated with
the degree to which they feel the need to control things (steadying
the ark, if you will). If they foster a strong enough attitude of good
will and tolerance for differences, they create a big enough tent to
accommodate many different kinds of spiritual manifestations among
members.

On the other hand, too large of a tent can cause other kinds of strife
and contention, and can sometimes place especially vulnerable or less
mature members in harm's way.

My study of Church history seems to have demonstrated that at times it
was necessary to clamp down on upstart prophets who may have been
getting a little too big for their britches or whose prophecies were
causing confusion and chaos. This doesn't mean the approach Joseph and
his successors always took was 100% correct. They sometimes acted
rashly and exercised unrighteous dominion. Most of the time, it was
probably the best they knew how to do at the time, and we should judge
them by their own times and the general level of barbarism that was
displayed by their contemporaries, not by our present ethical
sensitivities.

I personally feel, however, that the pendulum has swung too far in the
other direction and that present management tactics have rewarded
timid discipleship.

This dialectic (individual spiritual gifts vs. organizational unity)
is an example of the many paradoxes in the church that make it so
dynamic and successful, some of which are pointed out in Terryl Givens
recent book, People of Paradox. Chesterton points out in his book
Orthodoxy that the "fabric of orthodoxy" is necessary to bridle
sometimes contradictory principles and maintain a semblance of order
and balance while the body of Christ progresses towards a more perfect
union.

I agree with your encouragements about blessing people and praying
with real faith, and the courage to exercise the gift of prophecy. I
also appreciate your comments here and your encouragements for us to
all be more faithful.

Best wishes,
Carl

[Lincoln Cannon]

. . . enjoyed your post, Carl.

[Premise Checker]

The term "second great apostasy" is my own invention, which is why you
have not heard of it before. I don't know exactly what the original one
was, except that there was no Church after the death of the last apostle.
(I thought one of them was still alive. Clarification, please.) I am not
sure what this means, but it seems to be a gradual falling away rather
than a sudden embracing of false beliefs.

Come to think of it, I'm not clear about exactly what the Church is
supposed to do. Isn't there something in the New Testament (iirc in the
Acts of the Apostles) about a church being just a place where x number of
believers gather to engage in joint worship? And what they expect to
accomplish jointly that they cannot accomplish severally is also unclear
to me. I am re-reading the entire King James Bible this year, but it will
be many months before I reach the New Testament.

Now, small deviations in belief are okay, and maybe one function of the
Church is to keep these within bounds. What is a small deviation? I regard
all disputes over the Trinity as insubstantial, meaning insubstantial to a
Western mind, even though rich with meaning in the civilizations of the
Levant. I see no way of resolving disputes over these things and take the
Humean view that they are meaningless.

On the other hand, original sin matters to one's actual behavior. It
matters whether I sin by choice. It is instructive that Jews do not
believe in original sin. Augustine did, but I am not sure when and where
the doctrine arose.

On the side, I shall be reading the D&C, having read the rest of the
Standard Works. Thank you for telling me that half of them were revealed
before 1832. (What happened then?) But I have read the Book of Mormon from
cover to cover and heavily marked passages that had theological
significance. It does not seem important to me whether Jesus had
post-resurrection appearances in more than one country or even whether
some Jews high-tailed it to the New World in 600 BC or that, over here,
they repeated the same Old Testament cycles of uprighteous living, good
fortune, slipping away into sin, bad fortune, over and over again.

I can't locate my copy of the Book of Mormon. I do recall noting passages
that suggest the earth is flat but also one that denounced infant
damnation, a Creedal Christian doctrine that arose I know not exactly
when but which Protestants reject.

Now St. Paul is already denouncing perversion of Christ's message, so it
is likely that they kept on increasing until the death of the last apostle
and beyond. What is so important about having an apostle living? He may
have some special authority (details, please. Can he make mistakes?) but
he cannot magically get others to go along with his ideas and
interpretations. In fact, we know little about what a most of them
actually did, though there are enough legends to inspire painters in the
Middle Ages and beyond. (Rembrandt's portrait of St. Benedict is near or
at the top of my favorite portrait. It is actually a portrait of someone
he knew. That it is intended as to represent St. Benedict is shown by a
knife in his hand, taken from a medieval legend. Look him up in
Wikipedia.)

Now if the apostles were inspired (whatever this means) or else given
special powers (details in the Gospels or Acts, I think), then the force
of their personalities would recede after they died. So likewise, there
will be a running down when the Mormon wave of inspired people fail to
keep up the original charisma.

Sociologically, this is exactly what has happened. What makes certain
Mormon doctrines distinctive will exert less and less force on in THIS
world. Remember, that Christ's founding of His church on the rock of
Galilee did not prevent the (first) Great Apostasy and that, sometime
during the Middle Ages between Aquinas and Ockham the idea that the Pope
could be a heretic got accepted. There have been two (and once three)
rivals for the papacy at several points, though somehow continuity has
been maintained (though at the price of quite tortuous reasoning).

I certainly don't know enough to build a case for heresy against any of
the modern Mormon Prophets. I do know that others have done so and that
the Church has fissioned repeatedly. Someone with greater knowledge of
Mormon doctrine will have to tell me whether it was an outright heretic
that appeared on the scene and corrupted the Church into heresy so grave
that the Church went out of existence until its restoration by Joseph or
whether it was simply a gradual falling away.

Question: did Joseph maintain that the restored Church would remain
restored until the destruction of Earth and Heaven (but not Hell)? If so,
which rival group of Mormons carries it on? Did Joseph give procedures for
adjudicating rival claims?

Question: is there a force that does the exact opposite of original sin
that makes the current Prophet incapable of sin or at least the sin of
holding heretical beliefs (he could still steal)?

This is not just idle chatter on my part. It goes to the point of my
identification of the central contribution of Mormonism as adding
increased AGENCY into religion, even to the point of mandating
transhumanism, as I have argued.

If the Church slides so far into routinized blandness that it does not
emphatically mandate our taking control over our own futures, not just in
the next life (Joseph was not the first one to suggest this but very much
the first with any following), but by implication into THIS life and by
using technological means to do so, then the Church has fallen away.

Am I clear now?

On 2010-01-01, David Foster opined [message unchanged below]:

>>> <http://smf.rantradio.com/index.php?topic=2378.0>http://smf.rantradio.com/index.php?topic=2378.0

>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 12 2009, 10:14 am, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> "Truthchaser" associates us with the New World Order:
>>>>

>>>> <http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3793&start=80&s>http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3793&start=80&s...

>>>>
>>>> Some members of the Immortality Institute are wondering why Mormon
>>>> Transhumanists would advocate immortality in this world rather than
>>>> going to heaven? They don't know that Mormon scripture teaches that
>>>> this world will become our heaven.
>>>>

>>>> <http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35481&st=0&gopid=368>http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35481&st=0&gopid=368...

>>>>
>>>> . . . and here's a mysterious one. I received an alert that the phrase
>>>> "Mormon Transhumanist" appeared on the following page, but it doesn't
>>>> appear to be there any longer. It's a page from the LDS Church
>>>> technology site. Note, too, their first cultural belief: "Receive
>>>> revelation: I call down the Lord?s help in doing my work to aid in
>>>> exalting the human family." That's a Mormon Transhumanist perspective,
>>>> if ever I saw one.
>>>>

>>>> <http://tech.lds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&>http://tech.lds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...)

>>>>
>>>> On Dec 9, 9:09 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> One of the participants in this discussion associates Mormon
>>>>> Transhumanism with "cool stuff" . . .
>>>>

>>>>> <http://www.metal-rules.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1590252&sid=6b202b498b3>http://www.metal-rules.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1590252&sid=6b202b498b3...

>>>>
>>>>> . . . and here's a guy trying to start a discussion about Mormon
>>>>> Transhumanism at religiousforums.com:
>>>>

>>>>> <http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/latter-day-saints/89910-transhum>http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/latter-day-saints/89910-transhum...

>>>>
>>>>> At least he gets a tweet from Trans_Alchemy:
>>>>

>>>>> <http://twitter.com/Trans_Alchemy/statuses/6366343834>http://twitter.com/Trans_Alchemy/statuses/6366343834

>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 30, 5:40 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> The SobekPtah Live Journal links to us and says: Behold!
>>>>

>>>>>> <http://sobekptah.livejournal.com/221501.html>http://sobekptah.livejournal.com/221501.html

>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 10, 9:11 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> We received a complimentary paragraph from Michael Anissimov on the
>>>>>>> Accelerating Future blog:
>>>>

>>>>>>> <http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2009/11/atheism-done-r>http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2009/11/atheism-done-r...

>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 10, 9:06 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Trans-Alchemy feed linked to Daniel's recent post about the MTA:
>>>>

>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/Trans_Alchemy/statuses/5550389597>http://twitter.com/Trans_Alchemy/statuses/5550389597

>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 10, 9:01 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We finally made it into the "Just in from Can't Make This Stuff Up
>>>>>>>>> Dept"! ;-)
>>>>

>>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/tag_singularity/statuses/5569401112>http://twitter.com/tag_singularity/statuses/5569401112

>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 5, 10:52 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whocaresabout the MTA? This thread is the answer. Here are some old
>>>>>>>>>> links from the legacy site to blogs and other web pages with content
>>>>>>>>>> from persons, friendly or not, that care . . .
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It looks like we've become part of a political discussion related to
>>>>>>>>>> Romney . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showComment.do?commentId=43846>http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showComment.do?commentId=43846

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Freedom of Religion board also found us . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://freedomofreligion.myfreeforum.org/ftopic268.php>http://freedomofreligion.myfreeforum.org/ftopic268.php

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> . . . as did the Tribal War board:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-462725.html>http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-462725.html

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> . . . and they think we're crazy. :-)
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Mormon Apologetics and Discussion board introduced the topic of
>>>>>>>>>> the Singularity, and our own Buraianto joined in the
>>>>>>>>>> conversation . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=20534>http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=20534

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It looks like the German Transhumanists have linked to our
>>>>>>>>>> Transfigurism News site.
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.transhumanismus.demokratietheorie.de/2007/01/01/transfigur>http://www.transhumanismus.demokratietheorie.de/2007/01/01/transfigur...

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We got the "weird" tag from the Omniorthogonal blog. :-)
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://omniorthogonal.blogspot.com/2007/01/every-human-grouping-is-on>http://omniorthogonal.blogspot.com/2007/01/every-human-grouping-is-on...

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The whump.com "More Like This" blog just linked to us:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.whump.com/moreLikeThis/2007/01/05/uploaded-saints-and-sing>http://www.whump.com/moreLikeThis/2007/01/05/uploaded-saints-and-sing...

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That guy on the Blue Mass Group site that wants to know whether Mitt
>>>>>>>>>> Romney is a Mormon Transhumanist is now calling us nut jobs.
>>>>>>>>>> Awesome. ;-)
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5725>http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5725

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's confirmed. By the mouths of two witnesses, we deserve the "weird"
>>>>>>>>>> tag:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.velcro-city.co.uk/links-for-09-01-2007/>http://www.velcro-city.co.uk/links-for-09-01-2007/

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> . . . at the Velcro City Tourist Board.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Someone at the "Making Light" blog, who shouldn't have been surprised
>>>>>>>>>> to find us . . . was:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008472.html>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008472.html

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> . . . and the Blue Mass guy continues promoting us -- the nutjobs.
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5985>http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5985

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Orbital Teapot blog has some good things to say about us, here:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://orbitalteapot.blogspot.com/2007/01/mormon-transhumanist-associ>http://orbitalteapot.blogspot.com/2007/01/mormon-transhumanist-associ...

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Richard Dawkins' discussion forum found us . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98697&highlight=mormo>http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98697&highlight=mormo...

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> . . . and we're attacking with flying wheels! ;-)
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Answers is trying to decide whether we're okay . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://sg.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070215133349AA6afmu>http://sg.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070215133349AA6afmu

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Universal Immortalism folks brought us up in conversation
>>>>>>>>>> regarding affiliation with the WTA:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/message/1160>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/message/1160

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It looks like our own Arcturus may be a member of that group. In any
>>>>>>>>>> case, I hope they're not prevented from affiliating with the WTA. We
>>>>>>>>>> have too much in common to worry about being against other
>>>>>>>>>> Transhumanist groups.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Awesome! We've arrived at the Portal of Evil! ;-)
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.portalofevil.com/single.php?poeurlid=000039553>http://www.portalofevil.com/single.php?poeurlid=000039553

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> . . . sad and lonely -- I suppose we all have our days.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A few Mormon members of the Nightstar Zoo thought we looked good on
>>>>>>>>>> the surface, but left a bad taste in their mouths . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://zoo.nightstar.net/viewtopic.php?t=15947&sid=d5f7888ac9764626b4>http://zoo.nightstar.net/viewtopic.php?t=15947&sid=d5f7888ac9764626b4...

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now we're the butt -- really -- of an alien abduction joke. ;-)
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.kibology/chi_tonw_27108734m.html>http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.kibology/chi_tonw_27108734m.html...

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> La Explanada de Avente blog found us:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://explanadadeavente.blogspot.com/2007/03/mormon-transhumanism.html>http://explanadadeavente.blogspot.com/2007/03/mormon-transhumanism.html

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> . . . and includes some insightful comments.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We came up during a conversation about artificial intelligence on
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Anissimov's blog:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/?p=405>http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/?p=405

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Boy in the Machine found us, an unholy union of Transhumanism and
>>>>>>>>>> Mormonism. ;-)
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://boyinthemachine.blogspot.com/2007/04/mormonism-transhumanism-s>http://boyinthemachine.blogspot.com/2007/04/mormonism-transhumanism-s...

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Qyxxql_merlin shares some thoughts regarding my Second Life
>>>>>>>>>> presentation . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://qyxxql-merlin.livejournal.com/3054.html>http://qyxxql-merlin.livejournal.com/3054.html

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Qyxxql_merlin continues thoughts on the MTA, including reflections on
>>>>>>>>>> an email exchange with me . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://qyxxql-merlin.livejournal.com/2007/05/18/>http://qyxxql-merlin.livejournal.com/2007/05/18/

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Anissimov mentioned us in some comments to a Transhumanist
>>>>>>>>>> blogger that used to be a Christian minister . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.thepriceofrice.com/2007/05/raised-imperishable.html>http://www.thepriceofrice.com/2007/05/raised-imperishable.html

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The discussion with Roko has expanded, both in the original blog
>>>>>>>>>> comments and in a new thread, here:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://transhumanist.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=658759%3ATopic%3A5588>http://transhumanist.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=658759%3ATopic%3A5588

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Transhumanists.org is now talking about whether polygamy should be
>>>>>>>>>> condoned by Transhumanists . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://transhumanist.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=658759%3ATopic%3A6261>http://transhumanist.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=658759%3ATopic%3A6261

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now John Howard has introduced us to the Red Mass Group (last time it
>>>>>>>>>> was the Blue Mass Group), with the same questions about Mitt Romney:
>>>>>>>>>> is he a Mormon Transhumanist? I wager Romney is totally unfamiliar
>>>>>>>>>> with Transhumanism. Here is the link:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://redmassgroup.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=A82C95E5C4326E8687824>http://redmassgroup.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=A82C95E5C4326E8687824...

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mangan's blog on machine intelligence referenced us, as an exception
>>>>>>>>>> to their perception of conservatives:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://mangans.blogspot.com/2007/06/machine-intelligence.html>http://mangans.blogspot.com/2007/06/machine-intelligence.html

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> . . . although I don't consider myself a conservative.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Some persons at the Immortality Institute had some complimentary
>>>>>>>>>> things to say about us . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=69&t=15041&st=20>http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=69&t=15041&st=20

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brent dugg my blog entry on religious tolerance . . .
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://digg.com/world_news/Mormon_Senator_Invites_Hindu_Prayer/who>http://digg.com/world_news/Mormon_Senator_Invites_Hindu_Prayer/who

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> George Dvorsky is worried that Mormonism is leeching the Transhumanist
>>>>>>>>>> meme:
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> <http://sentientdevelopments.blogspot.com/2007/07/transvision-2007-goo>http://sentientdevelopments.blogspot.com/2007/07/transvision-2007-goo...

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He's a sharp guy, and it makes sense to me that he would feel this
>>>>>>>>>> way. Of course, I don't think "leech" is the right word. I would
>>>>>>>>>> choose a euphemism.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Samuel Holmes wrote a letter to Sunstone about our article. It was
>>>>>>>>>> printed along with my response in the most recent issue. (03/03/06)
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Fight Aging site quoted our notes on the events of
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> read more »
>>

>> --
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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[Timothy Sweet]

Ok, I apologize for jumping down your throat I had erroneously assumed that you were LDS with a misunderstanding of the gospel.

I See you have quite a few misconceptions and misunderstandings of the Great Apostasy and the Restoration of the Church from a Mormon Perspective. I hope that you will bare with me as I explain a little bit. I will also try to stress what parts are actual doctrine and what points are my own conjecture based on the physical evidences and claims of Joseph Smith.

I wanted to point out that we LDS do not believe in the infallibility of any mortal man at any time. Joseph Smith was flawed just as we all are and so are the current Apostles in the LDS church. The reason there are 12 Apostles is to ensure that the choices and direction of the church is never gone astray. Also, in the church there is no voting or bureaucracy. The only way that revelations or statements, such as the Proclamation of the Family, are canonized, is when the first presidency and all twelve apostles are in complete agreement with each other. we only believe that revelation for the entire church or world will come through the Apostles and they will all "speak in one voice" if you will.

After the death and resurrection of Christ the Apostles had gone to many different parts of the eastern world to try and convert people to Christianity. most successful of this venture was the conversion of the Romans to Christianity. Due to the nature of Christianity and the social and economic situation of Rome Christianity flourished like wildfire. However, due to lack of communication and a very long game of "telephone" it was near impossible to ensure cohesion of doctrine between many different places in the world. Hence the Pauline Epistles that compose much of the New Testament were sent out to many parts of the world, copied, translated, stored and so on. Most Christian denominations believe Paul's words to be infallible, however this is not the LDS View as we know Paul was a man just like anyone else and subject to the same temptations and faults. After a few years due to persecution the Apostles were hunted down and eventually killed before any attempts to fill their places in the ranks of the church were filled. Some religious movements assert the 12 Apostles were only meant for their time and that nobody was meant to take their places. However, When Judas fell from his place as an Apostle there was outlined in the Old testament the way to go about replacing the apostles to ensure there were always 12. this is shown in Acts chapter 1 verse 26 when Matthias is called by the 11 remaining apostles. Because the apostled had been killed there was just left the Body of the church to fend for itself.

Now, skip ahead to ~300 AD Ignatius of Antioch, who hold the Office of Bishop (which is an office in the Aaronic Priesthood to officiate the ordinance of the Sacrament, Catholics call it Eucharist). He was the first one to coin the phrase "Catholic Church" in a letter to other Bishops to organize themselves to continue teaching the gospel.

My personal opinion is that Ignatius was doing only what he knew to do at the time to try and prevent Christianity to fall into disarray.

Now those holding the office of Bishop ran the church for a while without really electing a leader. This is why they created a position and voted Siricius into it. The term Pope comes from the Latin abbreviation PAPA which means Bishop of Bishops or Father of Fathers. and made his role to be authoritative for the whole of the church. At this point they were missing two things. the Keys of Authority from God on how to organize the church and the Melchizedek Priesthood. this rightfully is taken as a cease in new revelation as there was no one Called by God to lead the church. Because of these things the church slowly began to doctrinally degrade over time. During the Council of Nicaea after the conversion of emperor Constantine to Christianity, the leaders of different sections of religious areas were brought together because there was no commonality between the doctrines taught. Constantine saw this and recognized the need for teaching correct principles. This led to many drafts of the Nicene creed to be developed and voted on. Once they had all agreed on one thing it was voted upon and then ratified as what they would teach in Christianity. unfortunately the Nicene creed has many statements that do not coincide with biblical accounts and many religious scholars recognize the conflict.

The great Apostasy is outlined by Isaiah in the Old testament (which he typified by a Darkness that covered the whole earth) and John the Revelator saw a vision where an Angel from heaven was holding a book containing the Everlasting Gospel in the last days. To which begs the question. IF the Everlasting Gospel was on the earth already, What would be the point of sending an angel with a book that contained it? but I digress.

Skip ahead 1500 years to the times of Joseph Smith and the Restoration of the Gospel. Joseph Smith maintained that this is the final dispensation (dispensation being a period of time when Prophets are on the earth) also called the Dispensation of the fullness of times. the time when all things the lord revealed previously would be restored and all things the Lord will reveal will be revealed in this dispensation. He restored the knowledge that God is a perfected and Glorified Man with a physical body and that he is separate from Christ who has his own physical presence. (this was lost at the counsel of Nicaea) as well as many other truths that are either alluded to in the Bible or were misinterpreted for years. He also maintained that the Gospel would never be taken from the earth again.

I'm not where you get the idea of a destruction of earth and Heaven (but not hell) because Joseph Smith restored the knowledge that this earth will become the Celestial Kingdom where those who will dwell with God in the hereafter shall live. The idea of Heaven and Hell was erroneously fostered to manipulate and cause people to fear when in reality the only ones who will obtain hell are the ones who have gained enough knowledge and wisdom to become like God and then put the sacrifice of his Son to an open shame and come out in open rebellion against God. Very few people who have ever lived will qualify for that.

As for the idea of Original Sin we do believe that man is in a fallen state. Children before they are able to be held accountable for their actions are "covered" under the Atonement of Christ. this also applies to people who are unable to distinguish right from wrong such as the mentally disabled and therefore do not require baptism because they are unaware of the covenants which need to be made willingly.

Joseph Smith restored the reality that all humankind has the same godlike potential if we do what is required of us. this is where transhumanism comes in. Science and technology is here for a reason. I don't believe in mysticism in the sense that things will magically happen that disobey physical laws (to which I also believe Science has yet to define physical laws correctly or in some cases are unaware of other physical laws). example, the Bible states that all mankind will be resurrected. This I believe will be carried out through cloning and genetic research and mapping the entire human genome, (theoretically it is possible to find the genetic code of your ancestors in your own DNA). I think this will be the way we receive physical perfected bodies. This is where i feel scientific research will explain how things that are prophesied of will come to pass.

I know my post was lengthy but I hope i may have answered your questions. If I missed something, or got some historical facts wrong please let me know so I can correct it.

[Carl Youngblood]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:47 AM, Timothy Sweet <timot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, I apologize for jumping down your throat I had erroneously assumed that
> you were LDS with a misunderstanding of the gospel.

Hopefully you wouldn't jump down the throat of confused LDS people
either Timothy ;-) Thanks for your thoughts. I would be interested in
hearing your response to my recent comments.

[Crash8308]

One thing I forgot to address is there is no mention int he Book of
Mormon that the earth is flat. In-fact it mentions about the planets
and how they move in their motions that witness that there is a
supreme creator.
As for your other statement, about the church sliding into blandness
and not emphatically mandating taking control of our own futures. they
constantly do tell us to take control of our own lives. there have
been many talks and statements given regarding higher education and
learning to improve conditions for this life. The reason the church is
not officially talking about using science, is because it doesn't
really matter how we become perfected physically, that will be
revealed later. However, some of us feel it will be through science
and technology. The main goal of the church is to perfect ourselves
spiritually. The only commandments regarding our physical well-being
that have been given are because they affect us, or at least have the
potential to affect us, spiritually. the Church is only concerned with
salvation and that cannot take their focus off that because it is
already difficult just trying to accomplish that. as Joseph Smith
said, "There has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the
heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots
with a corn-dodger [a piece of corn bread] for a wedge, and a pumpkin
for a beetle [a wooden mallet]. Even the Saints are slow to
understand."

On Jan 7, 1:07 am, Carl Youngblood <carl.youngbl...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Carl Youngblood]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Crash8308 <timot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> learning to improve conditions for this life. The reason the church is
> not officially talking about using science, is because it doesn't
> really matter how we become perfected physically, that will be
> revealed later. However, some of us feel it will be through science

What if the perfection you speak of depends on our efforts also? Then
it becomes quite important to think about how such things might occur.
It seems to me that Joseph's teachings emphasize the necessity of
working these things out through personal experience and that there is
no shortcut to godhood.

Even if there will be a shortcut in the future, it is taking a less
faithful course to depend on this happening. We should always act as
if everything depended on us, even if God comes down and gives us a
lucky break some day. And if I were him, speaking from my limited
perspective, I would be much more inclined to help out somebody who
was at least trying than somebody who was simply waiting for my help.

Just some thoughts...

[Timothy Sweet]

I don't think we disagree on this at all. I like what you had to say because it realyl does all depend on ourselves.

[Lincoln Cannon]

Here are some thoughts about us from more guys that are afraid of the
New World Order . . .

http://theinvisibleacademy.5forum.net/secret-societies-symbolism-f12/the-mormon-transhumanist-association-t105.htm

On Jan 1, 1:35 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> An upstart magazine editor wants to include content about Mormon
> Transhumanists . . .
>
> http://smf.rantradio.com/index.php?topic=2378.0
>

> On Dec 12 2009, 10:14 am, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Truthchaser" associates us with theNewWorldOrder:
>

> >http://www.outlawjournalism.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3793&start=80&s...
>
> > Some members of the Immortality Institute are wondering why Mormon

> > Transhumanists would advocate immortality in thisworldrather than

> > going to heaven? They don't know that Mormon scripture teaches that
> > thisworldwill become our heaven.
>

> >http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35481&st=0&gopid=368...
>
> > . . . and here's a mysterious one. I received an alert that the phrase
> > "Mormon Transhumanist" appeared on the following page, but it doesn't
> > appear to be there any longer. It's a page from the LDS Church
> > technology site. Note, too, their first cultural belief: "Receive

> > revelation: I call down the Lord’s help in doing my work to aid in

> > exalting the human family." That's a Mormon Transhumanist perspective,
> > if ever I saw one.
>

> >http://tech.lds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&...)
>
> > On Dec 9, 9:09 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> > > One of the participants in this discussion associates Mormon
> > > Transhumanism with "cool stuff" . . .
>

> > >http://www.metal-rules.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1590252&sid=6b202b498b3...
>
> > > . . . and here's a guy trying to start a discussion about Mormon
> > > Transhumanism at religiousforums.com:
>

> > >http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/latter-day-saints/89910-transhum...
>
> > > At least he gets a tweet from Trans_Alchemy:
>
> > >http://twitter.com/Trans_Alchemy/statuses/6366343834
>

> > > On Nov 30, 5:40 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > The SobekPtah Live Journal links to us and says: Behold!
>
> > > >http://sobekptah.livejournal.com/221501.html
>

> > > > On Nov 10, 9:11 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > We received a complimentary paragraph from Michael Anissimov on the
> > > > > Accelerating Future blog:
>

> > > > >http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/2009/11/atheism-done-r...
>
> > > > > On Nov 10, 9:06 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > The Trans-Alchemy feed linked to Daniel's recent post about the MTA:
>
> > > > > >http://twitter.com/Trans_Alchemy/statuses/5550389597
>

> > > > > > On Nov 10, 9:01 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > We finally made it into the "Just in from Can't Make This Stuff Up
> > > > > > > Dept"! ;-)
>
> > > > > > >http://twitter.com/tag_singularity/statuses/5569401112
>

> > > > > > > On Nov 5, 10:52 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Whocaresabout the MTA? This thread is the answer. Here are some old
> > > > > > > > links from the legacy site to blogs and other web pages with content
> > > > > > > > from persons, friendly or not, that care . . .
>
> > > > > > > > It looks like we've become part of a political discussion related to
> > > > > > > > Romney . . .
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showComment.do?commentId=43846
>

> > > > > > > > The Freedom of Religion board also found us . . .
>
> > > > > > > >http://freedomofreligion.myfreeforum.org/ftopic268.php
>

> > > > > > > > . . . as did the Tribal War board:
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-462725.html
>

> > > > > > > > . . . and they think we're crazy. :-)
>
> > > > > > > > The Mormon Apologetics and Discussion board introduced the topic of
> > > > > > > > the Singularity, and our own Buraianto joined in the
> > > > > > > > conversation . . .
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=20534
>

> > > > > > > > It looks like the German Transhumanists have linked to our
> > > > > > > > Transfigurism News site.
>

> > > > > > > >http://www.transhumanismus.demokratietheorie.de/2007/01/01/transfigur...
>
> > > > > > > > We got the "weird" tag from the Omniorthogonal blog. :-)
>

> > > > > > > >http://omniorthogonal.blogspot.com/2007/01/every-human-grouping-is-on...
>
> > > > > > > > The whump.com "More Like This" blog just linked to us:
>

> > > > > > > >http://www.whump.com/moreLikeThis/2007/01/05/uploaded-saints-and-sing...
>
> > > > > > > > That guy on the Blue Mass Group site that wants to know whether Mitt
> > > > > > > > Romney is a Mormon Transhumanist is now calling us nut jobs.
> > > > > > > > Awesome. ;-)
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5725
>

> > > > > > > > It's confirmed. By the mouths of two witnesses, we deserve the "weird"
> > > > > > > > tag:
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.velcro-city.co.uk/links-for-09-01-2007/
>

> > > > > > > > . . . at the Velcro City Tourist Board.
>
> > > > > > > > Someone at the "Making Light" blog, who shouldn't have been surprised
> > > > > > > > to find us . . . was:
>
> > > > > > > >http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008472.html
>

> > > > > > > > . . . and the Blue Mass guy continues promoting us -- the nutjobs.
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5985
>

> > > > > > > > The Orbital Teapot blog has some good things to say about us, here:
>

> > > > > > > >http://orbitalteapot.blogspot.com/2007/01/mormon-transhumanist-associ...
>
> > > > > > > > Richard Dawkins' discussion forum found us . . .
>

> > > > > > > >http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98697&highlight=mormo...
>
> > > > > > > > . . . and we're attacking with flying wheels! ;-)
>
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Answers is trying to decide whether we're okay . . .
>
> > > > > > > >http://sg.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070215133349AA6afmu
>

> > > > > > > > The Universal Immortalism folks brought us up in conversation
> > > > > > > > regarding affiliation with the WTA:
>
> > > > > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/message/1160
>

> > > > > > > > It looks like our own Arcturus may be a member of that group. In any
> > > > > > > > case, I hope they're not prevented from affiliating with the WTA. We
> > > > > > > > have too much in common to worry about being against other
> > > > > > > > Transhumanist groups.
>
> > > > > > > > Awesome! We've arrived at the Portal of Evil! ;-)
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.portalofevil.com/single.php?poeurlid=000039553
>

> > > > > > > > . . . sad and lonely -- I suppose we all have our days.
>
> > > > > > > > A few Mormon members of the Nightstar Zoo thought we looked good on
> > > > > > > > the surface, but left a bad taste in their mouths . . .
>

> > > > > > > >http://zoo.nightstar.net/viewtopic.php?t=15947&sid=d5f7888ac9764626b4...
>
> > > > > > > > Now we're the butt -- really -- of an alien abduction joke. ;-)
>

> > > > > > > >http://www.nnseek.com/e/alt.religion.kibology/chi_tonw_27108734m.html...
>
> > > > > > > > La Explanada de Avente blog found us:
>
> > > > > > > >http://explanadadeavente.blogspot.com/2007/03/mormon-transhumanism.html
>

> > > > > > > > . . . and includes some insightful comments.
>
> > > > > > > > We came up during a conversation about artificial intelligence on
> > > > > > > > Michael Anissimov's blog:
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/?p=405
>

> > > > > > > > The Boy in the Machine found us, an unholy union of Transhumanism and
> > > > > > > > Mormonism. ;-)
>

> > > > > > > >http://boyinthemachine.blogspot.com/2007/04/mormonism-transhumanism-s...
>
> > > > > > > > Qyxxql_merlin shares some thoughts regarding my Second Life
> > > > > > > > presentation . . .
>
> > > > > > > >http://qyxxql-merlin.livejournal.com/3054.html
>

> > > > > > > > Qyxxql_merlin continues thoughts on the MTA, including reflections on
> > > > > > > > an email exchange with me . . .
>
> > > > > > > >http://qyxxql-merlin.livejournal.com/2007/05/18/
>

> > > > > > > > Michael Anissimov mentioned us in some comments to a Transhumanist
> > > > > > > > blogger that used to be a Christian minister . . .
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.thepriceofrice.com/2007/05/raised-imperishable.html
>

> > > > > > > > The discussion with Roko has expanded, both in the original blog
> > > > > > > > comments and in anewthread, here:
>

> > > > > > > >http://transhumanist.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=658759%3ATopic%3A5588
>
> > > > > > > > Transhumanists.org is now talking about whether polygamy should be
> > > > > > > > condoned by Transhumanists . . .
>
> > > > > > > >http://transhumanist.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=658759%3ATopic%3A6261
>

> > > > > > > > Now John Howard has introduced us to the Red Mass Group (last time it
> > > > > > > > was the Blue Mass Group), with the same questions about Mitt Romney:
> > > > > > > > is he a Mormon Transhumanist? I wager Romney is totally unfamiliar
> > > > > > > > with Transhumanism. Here is the link:
>

> > > > > > > >http://redmassgroup.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=A82C95E5C4326E8687824...
>
> > > > > > > > Mangan's blog on machine intelligence referenced us, as an exception
> > > > > > > > to their perception of conservatives:
>
> > > > > > > >http://mangans.blogspot.com/2007/06/machine-intelligence.html
>

> > > > > > > >  . . . although I don't consider myself a conservative.
>
> > > > > > > > Some persons at the Immortality Institute had some complimentary
> > > > > > > > things to say about us . . .
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=69&t=15041&st=20
>

> > > > > > > > Brent dugg my blog entry on religious tolerance . . .
>
> > > > > > > >http://digg.com/world_news/Mormon_Senator_Invites_Hindu_Prayer/who
>

> > > > > > > > George Dvorsky is worried that Mormonism is leeching the Transhumanist
> > > > > > > > meme:
>

> > > > > > > >http://sentientdevelopments.blogspot.com/2007/07/transvision-2007-goo...
>
> > > > > > > > He's a sharp guy, and it makes sense to me that he would feel this
> > > > > > > > way. Of course, I don't think "leech" is the right word. I would
> > > > > > > > choose a euphemism.
>
> > > > > > > > Samuel Holmes wrote a letter to Sunstone about our article. It was
> > > > > > > > printed along with my response in the most recent issue. (03/03/06)
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

Guess which organization shows up at the bottom of the first page of
results when you do a Google search for "transhumanist"?

http://www.google.com/search?q=transhumanist

I'll give you a hint: it's the same organization that shows up at the
top of the second page of results when you do a Google search for
"transhumanism" . . .

http://www.google.com/search?q=transhumanism

. . . and at the top of the second page of results when you do a Bing
search for "transhumanist".

http://www.bing.com/search?q=transhumanist

Now let's aim for the top of the first page of results when you do a
Google search for "transhumanist". There's work to do. You can help by
linking to http://transfigurism.org from your web sites, blogs,
tweets, etc. . . . and by writing about Mormon Transhumanism anywhere
on the Internet, such as in blog comments. It's a great way to
contribute to increasing awareness of the message we're associated
together to share. Thanks!

On Jan 7, 7:29 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> Here are some thoughts about us from more guys that are afraid of the
> New World Order . . .
>

> http://theinvisibleacademy.5forum.net/secret-societies-symbolism-f12/...

> ...
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

We're mentioned in the recent newsletter from Humanity+:

http://goertzel.org/HPlusNewsletterNewYears2010.pdf

On Jan 7, 7:54 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> Guess which organization shows up at the bottom of the first page of
> results when you do a Google search for "transhumanist"?
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=transhumanist
>
> I'll give you a hint: it's the same organization that shows up at the
> top of the second page of results when you do a Google search for
> "transhumanism" . . .
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=transhumanism
>
> . . . and at the top of the second page of results when you do a Bing
> search for "transhumanist".
>
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=transhumanist
>
> Now let's aim for the top of the first page of results when you do a
> Google search for "transhumanist". There's work to do. You can help by

> linking tohttp://transfigurism.orgfrom your web sites, blogs,

> ...
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

Keith Kisser justifies the Internet by pointing to us . . .

http://twitter.com/kkisser/statuses/7583684909

On Jan 9, 3:33 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> We're mentioned in the recent newsletter from Humanity+:
>
> http://goertzel.org/HPlusNewsletterNewYears2010.pdf
>
> On Jan 7, 7:54 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Guess which organization shows up at the bottom of the first page of
> > results when you do a Google search for "transhumanist"?
>
> >http://www.google.com/search?q=transhumanist
>
> > I'll give you a hint: it's the same organization that shows up at the
> > top of the second page of results when you do a Google search for
> > "transhumanism" . . .
>
> >http://www.google.com/search?q=transhumanism
>
> > . . . and at the top of the second page of results when you do a Bing
> > search for "transhumanist".
>
> >http://www.bing.com/search?q=transhumanist
>
> > Now let's aim for the top of the first page of results when you do a
> > Google search for "transhumanist". There's work to do. You can help by

> > linking tohttp://transfigurism.orgfromyour web sites, blogs,

> ...
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

We were referenced in this discussion at a Mormon forum, but they did
not represent the new god argument correctly.

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=288492

On Jan 10, 7:00 am, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> Keith Kisser justifies the Internet by pointing to us . . .
>
> http://twitter.com/kkisser/statuses/7583684909
>
> On Jan 9, 3:33 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > We're mentioned in the recent newsletter from Humanity+:
>
> >http://goertzel.org/HPlusNewsletterNewYears2010.pdf
>
> > On Jan 7, 7:54 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> > > Guess which organization shows up at the bottom of the first page of
> > > results when you do a Google search for "transhumanist"?
>
> > >http://www.google.com/search?q=transhumanist
>
> > > I'll give you a hint: it's the same organization that shows up at the
> > > top of the second page of results when you do a Google search for
> > > "transhumanism" . . .
>
> > >http://www.google.com/search?q=transhumanism
>
> > > . . . and at the top of the second page of results when you do a Bing
> > > search for "transhumanist".
>
> > >http://www.bing.com/search?q=transhumanist
>
> > > Now let's aim for the top of the first page of results when you do a
> > > Google search for "transhumanist". There's work to do. You can help by

> > > linking tohttp://transfigurism.orgfromyourweb sites, blogs,

> ...
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

We received compliments (in Italian) on our web site . . .

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://www.wordpress-it.it/forum/topic/11488%23post-47095&sl=auto&tl=en

On Jan 19, 2:08 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> We were referenced in this discussion at a Mormon forum, but they did
> not represent the new god argument correctly.
>
> http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=288492
>
> On Jan 10, 7:00 am, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Keith Kisser justifies the Internet by pointing to us . . .
>
> >http://twitter.com/kkisser/statuses/7583684909
>
> > On Jan 9, 3:33 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> > > We're mentioned in the recent newsletter from Humanity+:
>
> > >http://goertzel.org/HPlusNewsletterNewYears2010.pdf
>
> > > On Jan 7, 7:54 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Guess which organization shows up at the bottom of the first page of
> > > > results when you do a Google search for "transhumanist"?
>
> > > >http://www.google.com/search?q=transhumanist
>
> > > > I'll give you a hint: it's the same organization that shows up at the
> > > > top of the second page of results when you do a Google search for
> > > > "transhumanism" . . .
>
> > > >http://www.google.com/search?q=transhumanism
>
> > > > . . . and at the top of the second page of results when you do a Bing
> > > > search for "transhumanist".
>
> > > >http://www.bing.com/search?q=transhumanist
>
> > > > Now let's aim for the top of the first page of results when you do a
> > > > Google search for "transhumanist". There's work to do. You can help by

> > > > linking tohttp://transfigurism.orgfromyourwebsites, blogs,

> ...
>
> read more »

[Lincoln Cannon]

The Empire Eternal blog commented on us and the New God Argument . . .

http://www.empireeternal.com/the-new-god-argument/

On Feb 5, 3:23 pm, Lincoln Cannon <linc...@metacannon.net> wrote:
> We received compliments (in Italian) on our web site . . .
>

> http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&lay...

> ...
>
> read more »

[buraianto]

Pseudo-logical. Take that, New God Argument.

It's kind of funny, because overall the author of the post seemed
positive toward it.

[Lincoln Cannon]

I think it was actually an attempt at under-stating a compliment.

[Carl Youngblood]

Uh, I definitely didn't take it that way. I think he is belittling your effort.

[Lincoln Cannon]

. . . could be. :-)