How are Sydney’s ‘brand-new, shiny’ metro stations holding up? Not so well

[Greg Sutherland]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/how-are-sydney-s-brand-new-shiny-metro-stations-holding-up-not-so-well-20250519-p5m0bp.html

[Matthew Geier]

On 11/6/25 10:08, 'Greg Sutherland' via TramsDownUnder wrote:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/how-are-sydney-s-brand-new-shiny-metro-stations-holding-up-not-so-well-20250519-p5m0bp.html

There are a lot of style features of the metro stations (and railway station refurbishments in general) that appear to have been chosen on the basis of style and looks and not robustness and ease of cleaning/maintenance.

[TP]

A couple of points to clear up in that somewhat inaccurate article.

The Epping-Chatswood section of M1 metro was built by the previous Labor government in the 2000s and has a history of faults, notably water ingress.

The metro does not suffer the "same unreliability" as the suburban system, having a record of nearly 100% reliability and OTR, compared with typically 80-90% for the suburban system.

Public-facing maintenance issues are obviously going to arise considering the intense usage the line has had since opening.

Tony P

[Stuart Keenan]

The Sydney Trains network is a very old, very large, very complex system that has been at the whim of less than stellar management over many decades so for it to post reliability stats of 80 to 90% is remarkable!

The Metro is a very new, very small, very simple line (it’s not a “system”) so assuming they’re granted a few minutes leeway before they officially report late running, we could reasonably ask why they’re not getting 100% reliability 100% of the time.

Integrating the Bankstown line with the rest of the metro operation doesn’t bode well for its future.

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[TP]

The Sydney suburban system has had billions of dollars of renewal investment poured into it for the last few decades, all to little effect apparently. Its basic problem is that it has reached its capacity limit for the population growth of Sydney and can no longer properly function as designed. 

The tolerance for meeting OTR target for Sydney Metro is +/- 1 minute. For all other modes (train, bus, tram, ferry) it is +/- 5 minutes. If you applied a 1 minute tolerance to those other modes they'd look pretty poor - except Sydney Ferries, which is pretty-much up with the metro for reliability. Sydney ferries have been operating for a lot longer than the trains - 195 years!

M1 is now the busiest train line in Sydney, along with T1 (Western + North Shore Line). When the Bankstown extension comes into service it will be the busiest.

Tony P

[Bob Pearce]

Hi all,

 

That +/- 1 minute OTR seems a tad extreme.

 

And why do buses get +/- 5 minutes? Has someone actually understood that road traffic conditions are so bad that delays are expected, and tolerated.

 

Even Perth has a +/- 4 minute OTR for its trains, I’m not sure what the OTR is for the buses and ferries, however its likely to be the same I would think.

It’s needed as well, as someone only needs to fart, or misstep getting into or out of a train, or some I dot plays with the doors, or a crowd of school students can’t make up their mind which door to get in, or out, and there’s a delay.

And like all good delays, they impact other services, somewhere.

 

Of course there are a myriad of possible causes for delays, so to expect, or demand, even, that a whole network operates to within a +/- 1 minute tolerance, is demented thinking at its best, and idiotic, at its extreme.

One theory that is expounded from time to time, is that passengers are not interested in a timetable as such, just that a train (or other PT vehicle) will turn up and soon, to take them to wherever they wish to be.

There is an expectation that a tram, train, bus, or whatever will turn up according to the information on a published timetable, and if it’s a couple late, then so be it.

Certainly passengers don’t like to see PT depart early – that is a sin – but if it’s a couple late then they’ll accept that in the majority of cases, after all the PT has turned up hasn’t it.

 

It’s when the PT is horribly late, and there has been no advice, or little advice that is spurious to say the least, is when the aggravation starts.

i.e. A train is due at 10.00am, if it gets there within a reasonable timeframe – say one or two minutes, they are happy. If it turns up late, or is not expected for some time, and there is no, or very little, explanation given, is when the pax get agro.

 

FWIW.

Bob in Perth

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[Matthew Geier]

On 13/6/25 10:13, Stuart Keenan wrote:
> The Sydney Trains network is a very old, very large, very complex
> system that has been at the whim of less than stellar management over
> many decades so for it to post reliability stats of 80 to 90% is
> remarkable!
>
> The Metro is a very new, very small, very simple line (it’s not a
> “system”) so assuming they’re granted a few minutes leeway before they
> officially report late running, we could reasonably ask why they’re
> not getting 100% reliability 100% of the time.
>
> Integrating the Bankstown line with the rest of the metro operation
> doesn’t bode well for its future.
>
>

 An enormous sum has been spend 'upgrading' the Bankstown line
(basically new overhead, new substations, rebuilt stations - about the
only thing not replaced is the track bed), I suspect those close spaced
stations and the extra hardware (the gap fillers) that is all in the
open, will come to bite them eventually, but they should at least get a
few years before the equipment starts to suffer from exposure to the
weather.


Despite the huge sums of money spent on the conventional network,
maintenance is still lagging and the historic choke point City Circle
and the line between Stanfield and the city is hard to fix.


What Sydney Trains really needs is the current western line with it's
close stations being a 'metro' and the suburban trains from further out
given their own express tunnels under the inner suburbs. Can't see that
idea getting very far.


Various projects over the years to 'untangle' the Sydney Trains network
tend to die off due to no cheap solutions.


The Sydney Trans line that performs best is the T4 - because it's not
operationally dependent on any other line so any problem is localized
and it doesn't get drawn into problems on other lines.

And I've watched trains run through Redfern underground at 2 minute
intervals when recovering from a disruption. 'metro' level of service is
possible with the 'deckers it just takes more discipline that Sydney
Trains (and Sydney commuters) are capable of.

[TP]

Bob, the leeway is understandable on non automated modes, though it does affect people who need to interchange with another service during their journey. Nothing worse than missing your connection. The metro is automated and the doors close in 25 seconds, whether you're on or not, and people have become accustomed to that (ref. Pavlov's Dogs). 

Tony P