Victoria Cross Station open day

[TP]

The station is located in the middle of North Sydney CBD with entrances spread along Miller Street between Victoria Cross and McLaren Street, as well as Denison Street. The platform is 11 storeys below street level. There is a new building of about 40 storeys above the station at the Berry Street corner, next to the MLC building.

For a tramway link (not that there's any shortage of that in North Sydney), the northern entrance is only half a block from the stil-extant former North Sydney Cable car depot (now the Independent Theatre).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zgilBgzynI&t

Tony P

[Matthew Geier]

Phil didn't waste any time, I just got home from the 'Victoria Cross open day' and haven't had a chance to download my camera yet!

There are some architectural details they will come to regret - the opening shot of Phil's video shows two brown 'covers' over the running tracks - they are going to be absolutely hell to keep clean - the 'slats' are going to trap dust and small bits of litter, but the way they are constructed means any one cleaning them will need 'working at heights' gear.

I've not been in any of the other new stations so I don't know if they all have this detail or not. Certainly was NOT designed for ease of maintenance.

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[TP]

There are no horizontal covers over the running tracks. I know the design you mean, but these (and afaik on all Sydney metro stations that have full height PSDs) are vertical walls. There should be very little dust fallout in these public areas. The platforms are completely screened from the trains, so there would be little infiltration of train brake, pantograph etc fallout. They must have some confidence in that, otherwise they wouldn't have all those white walls and ceilings throughout the station!

To give others context, Phil has filmed starting at the McLaren Street entrance, a block north of the main station entrances, hence the long passageway (about 2.5 minute walk I understand). Then he's gone down onto the platform from the north end and gone to the south end and up the escalators to the south end entrances at Miller Street and Denison Street, near Victoria Cross. Then he's turned around and walked all the way back to McLaren Street via the platform.

It will be 9 minutes to Central from this station, compared to 13 minutes from the existing North Sydney Station. Intermediate stations on the metro line: Barangaroo, Martin Place and Park Street. Intermediate stations on the suburban line: Milsons Point, Wynyard and Town Hall. There is also the City Circle east covering Circular Quay, St James and Museum, but involving a change. Eastern Suburbs line doesn't offer any additional city locations other than the above. There is also the option of transferring to the George Street tram from any of the rail lines to reach intermediate points along that axis. 

So overall, quite a good spread of coverage for people wanting to go to different parts of Sydney CBD. Later these will be joined by Hunter Street Station on Metro West, making a total (including Central) of 11 stations within the CBD. Furthermore, Wynyard, the light rail, Hunter Street and the two Martin Place stations will be linked by a single underground concourse, making it, I believe, the second-largest underground rail interchange in the world (after one in Paris iirc).

Tony P

[Michael Lewis]

I enjoyed Phil's video. However, being "senior", I can still move comfortably on escalators or lifts, but find very long walks, hard work - particularly in the middle of a purposeful group of travellers - which was my experience between Wynyard and Barangaroo some years ago. I'm experienced using Jerusalem Station, which is also very deep, requiring multiple escalators or lifts. However, the lateral distances are short, which does not appear to be the case at Victoria Cross - particularly from The Northern entrance. The white walls and what look like moulded chairs will be used as drawing boards and removal challenges. Monumental, beautiful, but it's still only a railway station.

[Matthew Geier]

On 25/2/24 18:19, TP wrote:

There are no horizontal covers over the running tracks. I know the design you mean, but these (and afaik on all Sydney metro stations that have full height PSDs) are vertical walls. There should be very little dust fallout in these public areas. The platforms are completely screened from the trains, so there would be little infiltration of train brake, pantograph etc fallout. They must have some confidence in that, otherwise they wouldn't have all those white walls and ceilings throughout the station!

I was there, there ARE near horizontal covers over the running lines, the design will be difficult to clean. It won't get dirt from the trains, but people are pretty dirty too. Probably more so than the mechanical interactions of the train with their infrastructure. See attached photo I took this morning at the 'Community Day'.

The brown part is over the tracks (I think there are air conditioning ducts between the running tunnel and the top of this structure) and it will be a trap for dust and debris. There are slats running length-ways with what looks like black painted board under the lengthwise slats. Any loose paper or lolly wrappers that end up there will stay up there. There are also places where people could toss stuff onto them from the concourse. But with the height above the platform below, any one going to clean them is going to have to have fall restraint - but there is no obvious attachment points for their harness. So I guess it won't get cleaned until it gets disgusting and they bring a EWP down the lifts one close down weekend and clean it.

The station design is a dirt trap. Otherwise appears to be well designed station to move people in and out. Lots of escalators and lifts. Wide passages.

But they seem to have missed easy to clean and easy to maintain.

The areas you can't see are probably larger than the public spaces, the station also contains at 11kv substation, LV switch rooms and a traction supply substation - and a significant amount of 'air handling' equipment.

There are also not enough seats, but since the maximum you would be waiting is 10 minutes I'll give em that one.

The former ECRL stations have open topped running lines - at North Ryde where my sister lives, you can look down onto the roofs of the passing trains. (And if so inclined throw things at them.)

[TP]

The McLaren Street entrance is rather like the Wynyard Walk to Barangaroo  - a connection to a remote location that saves people from having to cross roads and traffic. The distance is thus somewhat of necessity longer. The main station entrances at the south end are nowhere near so far. I can still walk, but stairs are pretty much out and escalators starting to get dodgy to navigate. So lifts are appreciated by us.

It is said that the Victorians (era that is, not the state) designed their railway stations to invest travellers with a sense of occasion, a feeling of doing something important, an art certainly lost later in the 20th century, not to mention airport terminals. It's also why we're seeing many old railway stations restored rather than demolished and replaced. I think it's about time this particular tantiliser for train travel is revived and the Sydney Metro project is doing that in spades. The Sydney city centre metro stations are going to be fabulous architectural landmarks for the city for many generations, as well as having the practical capacity that has become very pinched on the older stations that were built when they thought the city was only going to have a couple of million people.

Tony P

[TP]

I see what you mean, but I think they will take a very long time to get dirty in that clean environment. The existing  metro stations are still very spotless after nearly five years, even the open Epping-Chatswood ones.

Tony P

[Matthew Geier]

The 'main' entrance was not open. We could go to the 'foyer', but the
building above is still very much unfinished and it would not have been
safe to enter/exit the station there, so the public 'inspection'
entrance was from the northern most 'back' entrance - it's a lot smaller
than the 'main' entrance spaces at the other end.

[Andrew Highriser]

After catching a train at Melbourne Southern Cross and having to walk two city blocks from the main entrance to board the train at Platform 8B, there is a good argument for travelators at stations when such long distances are involved. 

Andrew. 

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[TP]

I agree with that, but probably not justified for McLaren Street because it's not the major entrance.

Tony P

[peterm...@gmail.com]

Matthew,

I agree its a dust and dirt trap, the major drivers will be "aesthetics" no 1 and no 2 acoustics, the latter gaps and openings to cavities behind that are damped are very common control of acoustic behaviour of a space, but having dealt with problems down the track the pull the acoustic traps apart and cleaned the dust and crap out of them is not well received by facility owners. The acoustic traps collect junk dust and everything that goes by..  They diminish in performance the more clogged with crap they are and eventually need a clean.  Messy process in deed as you have indicated.

This arrangement should prevent the carbon " dust" in the platform that has been reported recently in Metro and ST underground, carbon gosh i wonder where, oh yeh pantographs!!! look at 2107 Matthew we know it only too well.....

Thanks

Peter

On Sunday 25 February 2024 at 19:02:31 UTC+11 Matthew Geier wrote:

[TP]

In that media piece, the fully enclosed metro stations were rated the least affected by fallout - understandably. The only opportunity to be subject to train fallout would be the period the gates are open and that's a very tight gap.

Tony P

[peterm...@gmail.com]

Hi Tony not surprising, i just wander still what is the effect of the falling to the ground carbon from pantographs is having on us?  Isn't the particle size to big to clog lungs?  Peter

[TP]

Think about all those decades some of us here stood on city underground platforms inhaling all that asbestos and carbon dust as the trains screamed into the stations. Most of us are still here I think! What I appreciate above all though about the new enclosed metro stations is the quietness.

Tony P

[Michael Lewis]

I'm reminded of the wonderful Ferodo brake linings. I can still smell their particular odour at Town Hall ststion, and of course there was the Hardie-Ferodo 500/1000 at Bathurst in October each year to encourage the use of "fibre" brake linings in cars. 

And can you imagine the same scenario in the deep London Picadilly line. Mind you most people smoked, so it would be unclear what got you first.

[TP]

I guess all those wonderful nostalgic electric train smells weren't doing us much good then.

Tony P

[Andrew Highriser]

Melbourne's W Class trams had the same brake shoe smell at times. In the '80s staff were concerned about asbestos in the brake shoes and we were assured that the brake shoes no longer contained asbestos. I am not sure if that was the case.

Andrew.

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[tram...@gmail.com]

I recall being told back when I smoked, that smoking multiplies the effects of asbestos up to 10 times, compared to a non-smoker.

I’m still here after smoking, working with asbestos and working with polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB’s) in electrical equipment.

I still remember a safety manager in the 70’s saying that he would drink some PCB transformer oil to prove it was safe. We wouldn’t let him!

There were also the guys who used transformer oil as hair oil and wondered why they lost their hair.

Fun times.

 

Cheers,

Mick in Brisbane, getting a little bit OT

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[TP]

Here is the layout of the Sydney northern CBD underground interchange between the four rail lines and the George Street light rail. The latter passes between the Wynyard and Hunter Street West station concourse entrances. Wynyard Station is the North Shore line, Hunter Street Station is West Metro, Martin Place Metro station  is the NW/city/SE metro and Martin Place suburban station is the Eastern Suburbs Railway.

Tony P

[David Batho]

And her I was thinking it was ozone!

David