Sydney light rail

[Malcolm Rowe]

I am in Sydney for the 60th anniversary of the tram museum. I planned to have my first ride on the CSELR, but it’s not running this weekend due to track work. 

I should not be surprised I guess. 

Now on the train to Parramatta which apparently is running!

From Mal in transit

[pn1]

The entire L2/L3 is closed for essential maintenance. But L1 and L4 are running. 

My plan today is to ride some of the old wharf tram lines. Let’s hope the bus from Balmoral stops at the authorised stand at Athol Wharf. 

Looking forward to tomorrow at Loftus. 

Paul 

On 22 Feb 2025, at 10:14, Malcolm Rowe <mal....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Geoffrey Hansen]

Is the L4 Parramatta line a bit like the St Kilda and Port Melbourne Tramlines in Melbourne? 

Regards Geoffrey 

[Malcolm Rowe]

The outer section from Rosehill Gardens to Carlingford is. In Parramatta it’s street running like a lot of Melbourne.  

From Mal in transit

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From: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Geoffrey Hansen <gnhan...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2025 11:34:58 AM
To: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Sydney light rail

 

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[Bob Pearce]

Mal,

I believe Shane from Perth is in Sinny as well for the festivities.

BP

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[pn1]

Colourful tramway identities one and all? 

Tramcar Trev from Canberra is also expected!

On 22 Feb 2025, at 11:49, 'Bob Pearce' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[TP]

"Sinny" and "Perf". Rolls off the tongue doesn't it Bob? Opposite mispronounced ends of a great country.

Tony P

[pn1]

A beautiful day in Sydney to be exploring long closed lines of the classic Sydney system. I’m currently at Mosman Wharf where trams ceased in 1955. Earlier, I took route 238 from Balmoral to Athol. How wonderful it would have been to have ridden trams yo Athol, Balmoral and Mosman Wharf. Any tram enthusiast who did and can remember has to be at least 80?

Paul 

On 22 Feb 2025, at 14:10, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Malcolm Rowe]

Sounds like there will be a national convention!

Get Outlook for iOS

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From: 'pn1' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2025 1:09:08 PM

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[Geoff Olsen]

Correct

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[TP]

Mal, did you stay through to Monday in order to ride CSELR? It would be interesting to hear your opinion of the modern Sydney tramways.

Tony P

[Mal Rowe]

On 24/02/2025 13:16, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> Mal, did you stay through to Monday in order to ride CSELR? It would
> be interesting to hear your opinion of the modern Sydney tramways.
>

Hi Tony,.

I left this morning so only had time to see the CSELR, not ride. That
will have to wait until next visit - probably in October.

I did get out to Parramatta and travelled on the L4 route.

I was quite impressed, it is comfortable but a bit slow in the central
Parramatta area.  I guess that is a mix of the nature of the
pedestrianised precinct and the desire to not overtax the batteries.

Speed was excellent in the former Carlingford railway, but the trams had
a bit of a tendency to 'hunt' like Melbourne's C1s once they get a bit
of speed up.

I have attached a couple of pics.

The first shows car-set 2162 in Macquarie St.  Note the warning sign for
cyclists and the shared roadway.

The second pic shows a 'feature' that I discovered by tripping inside
one of the trams (twice - I am a slow learner).

The aluminium castings around the articulations between sections are not
flush with the floor - on either side.  They sit up around 15mm or more
and are a trip hazard.  Low floor yes, flat floor on.

Mal Rowe - impressed but a bit surprised about the floor.

[Matthew Geier]

The Parramatta Urbos 100 are not particularly well built cars. Not just the built in trip hazards, but loose panels, to the point they fall off. Some of the cars already have a battery pack cut out. The air conditioning that goes into low power mode when the car is on battery is developing way too many faults so cars are in service with an air conditioner cut out too.

Their vehicle tracking system the 'AVLS' is buggy and crashes often. If it goes out completely they have to suspend services, as the trams can not trigger the traffic signals on their own, the AVLS sends their location to the central server which then generates a TCS message that is sent to the RMS traffic management system.

If anything in that chain stops working, the trams stop as they can't clear the traffic lights. Seems a simple induction loop 'mass detector' in the road connected to the local traffic light control box was too simple for them.

They have cheapened out one one side (cheaply built trams) and overly complicated things on the other (dependance on the AVLS and communication between different systems for operations).

[Tony Galloway]

Get the bargain basement tram - even CAF has better products, see Stockholm - and load it up with absurd and expensive gadgets and gimmicks.

What a difference induction loops and wiring the overhead gaps would make. There’s nothing so aesthetic along the route that the presence of overhead would impact it. I’d expect every set of points are motorised too, no matter how rarely they are used.

TfNSW - the junk peddlers’ easy mark.

Tony

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[Tony Galloway]

Looks like I can post again after debugging my computer….

Thinking about the lack of induction loops on PLR to switch traffic lights, it probably comes down to a turf war between TfNSW and RMS about who gets to control of the lights.

I wouldn’t be surprised if RMS insisted they still had to have control of the lights through this convoluted setup before agreeing to any tram priority, which they’d lose if trams could clear signals on approach.

RMS’s maggot brained attitude kept the L2/3 off the old tram alignment at Moore Park, leading to the despised destruction of mature Moreton Bay fig trees, so compared to that bastardry frustrating approach cleared tram signals is petty stuff.

And regarding the ridiculous battery operation on PLR, the best way to hide tram overhead in the streetscape is a good coverage of trees, which also enhances pedestrianised streets by providing shade and reducing the heat island generated by paving.

Tony

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[TP]

The CAF AXL for Stockholm and Tallinn, which has the similar platform to the Melbourne E class was a crib of the design of the Transtech (now Skoda) for Helsinki, but isn't 100% low floor.

Tony P

[Tony Galloway]

I’m not saying the AXL is the best car available, just better than the Urbos 100.

You can’t knock the commercial success of the mediocre Urbos 3/100 though. CAF must offer a good deal even when they don’t lock in future orders with gimmicks like battery power in Newcastle and Parramatta. And soon, it seems, in Canberra too. 

Even then, Matthew’s description of the low quality control on the build plus the aircon and battery defects on these PLR cars shows that after the Newcastle reliability fiasco neither CAF or TfNSW have learned anything from experience, only repeated past mistakes.

Tony

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