Sydney metro vs trains popularity
TP
The Daily Telegraph put the Metro and Sydney Trains to the test this week to see if Sydneysiders prefer efficiency over comfort during their morning peak-hour commute.
Don't miss out on the headlines from NSW. Followed categories will be added to My News.
Sydney’s transport system is a tale of two cities.
A once-bustling overground rail system – plagued with delays – now boasting enough room for commuters to lay down, and a lighting-fast Metro service which sees commuters crammed in like sardines.
The Daily Telegraph has put the two transport systems to the test this week to see if Sydneysiders prefer efficiency over comfort during their morning peak-hour commute, with two reporters hopping on the Metro and Sydney Trains into Central Station from Chatswood.
Upon arrival at the platforms, it was quickly evident that most people use the stop to switch onto the driverless Metro.
Boarding the 7:37am service from Chatswood Station, reporter Jack Crawley squeezed into the sardine can-like Metro carriage, with little room to spare.
At the same time, reporter Harrison Finlay hopped on the Tangara train, which was spacious and quiet, with most people getting a seat with plenty of room.
With the exception of a few travellers exiting the Metro at the popular CBD stops of Martin Place, Gadigal, and Barangaroo, the driverless service remained crammed until arriving at Central Station at 7:52am.
After 15 minutes of getting up close and personal with strangers, Crawley could finally move around freely.
At the same time, Finlay hadn’t even reached the Harbour Bridge, making him ponder whether getting out and swimming across would be quicker.
Nearly 20 minutes behind, the old T1 slowly crept over “the coathanger” with nearly empty carriages, enough room for our reporter to relax and consider putting his feet up.
It was a shock to think this train was heading into the CBD right in the middle of peak-hour.
Twenty-one minutes after Crawley and his speedy Metro hit Central, Finlay and his snail-paced Tangara rolled into Sydney’s main station.
The Daily Telegraph revealed data on Wednesday showing the Sydney train network had it’s worst punctuality in years, failing to meet it’s targets every month of the last financial year.
The data showed that a massive 16 per-cent of trains did not run on time, making it the highest recorded since the inception of the public dataset in 2019.
Young commuting couple Bronte Cavallero and Zac Harb say the Metro has cut their commute “in half.”
“It’s just so efficient,” said Ms Cavallero.
“It’s the best,” said Mr Harb. “I can get from my door to my work in 11 minutes.”
Aside from the obvious convenience to their travel time, the pair said the next biggest draw to the Metro was its comfort, labelling it “nice, clean, and spacious.”
“We definitely prioritise always getting the Metro when we can,” said Ms Cavallero.
“Obviously, it depends on where you are going, but we’ll always try and get the Metro,” said Mr Harb.
Mr Harb, an architect by trade, says that the Metro and its station spaces are ‘amazing’ by design, and his professional appreciation plays a role in their commuting selections.
So, to our commuters in the north of Sydney, take note: if you want fast and efficient, take the Metro.
If you want an excuse to rock up late to work, take the train.
Richard Youl
On 24 Jul 2025, at 2:54 pm, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TramsDownUnder" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tramsdownunde...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/1f9640e4-d366-4546-bdb1-4554cc7560d7n%40googlegroups.com.
Matthew Geier
Also the 4G deckers have had their performance limited to match the older trains and stay with in the power supply limits of the old substations. If they had adequate power supplies and the power limit settings changed. (And the timetabling with generous recovery time changed) they could perform much better on the speed front. Unfortunately most of the drivers working now never had the experience of thrashing every last bit of performance out of their trains like the drivers of those old single deckers did.
And Sydney commuters have poor door discipline. I do wonder what platform doors would do for the city circle and eastern suburbs trains time keeping in the peak. Platforms doors open for 30 seconds only.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/1125B5E3-F311-4110-A491-55AEDDA7AB8D%40yahoo.com.au.
TP
David Batho
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/5176a46f-b72a-4a49-a04e-ba6e482c9037n%40googlegroups.com.
David Batho
Correction: I meant that there was, presumabley, the a samilar increase in dwell time when the multiple door Bradfield cars were phased out. I guess the same thing would have happened in Melbourne with the transitions from Swing-Door/Tait cars to Harris cars (and Sydney O and P Class to R and R1 classes).
David
Robert Taaffe
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/F4F899A2-3C7A-4766-B303-45EB9A50868E%40bigpond.net.au.
Brian Blunt
On 25 Sep 2025, at 18:53, Robert Taaffe <rtaa...@gmail.com> wrote:
Re the loading/dwell time. If you talk to Sydney drivers they will tell you that at most stations passengers, in the main, either get on or off. Those going both ways in numbers are at some junctions and the city stations like Town Hall and Wynyard and Central Electric and at those additional dwell time is allowed. Dwell time as not as big an issue as everyone keeps making out.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/ADE45E57-037B-4BB3-94C7-BC7EFA552245%40gmail.com.
TP
[QUOTE] While the Premier was preoccupied cutting ribbons on new Metro projects that he played no part in building, he left the network that does the heavy lifting to decay, writes James O’Doherty.
In April last year, then-transport minister Jo Haylen triumphantly declared job done on fixing thousands of “high-priority” defects across Sydney’s heavy rail network.
She said Sydney Trains had powered through a five-year maintenance backlog in just 10 months, and gave herself a pat on the back for achieving the basic work of government.
At the time, the Premier said his government’s $97m “Rail Repair Plan” had made the network safer and more reliable.
Chris Minns said remedial works had fixed thousands of “unnoticed” defects that could have “catastrophic consequences” for the rail network.
How wrong he was.
In all of that repair work, crews missed a damaged overhead wire in Homebush that would end up shutting down the backbone of Sydney’s public transport system for two days, throwing the city into chaos.
The review of that sorry episode unearthed a number of glaring red flags.
First, defects in the wire were first detected in 2020, when new maintenance tech was being trialled.
The “Teksol” technology found that the wire was severely worn and thin – below its “condemning limit” and close to its “elastic limit” – but nothing was ever done about it.
This is, obviously, not the fault of Minns. The former government could, and should, have done something about it, rather than relying on crews peering through binoculars to inspect the state of vital infrastructure.
However, in the 2½ years since the Minns government has been in power, nothing ever changed.
Why was none of that $97m spruiked by Haylen and Minns spent updating outdated and inefficient maintenance methods? And, why – in the words of the review’s authors – did it take “far too long” to deal with a “Level 3 Crisis” incident?
These problems fall squarely at Minns’ feet. It is not good enough, as he has done, to blame the Coalition government for this failure.
Minns says the scathing review was the “wake-up call we needed” to fix the frail heavy rail network for good.
That is a bit rich for a Premier who in May said he was lying awake at night worrying about the reliability of the network.
A “lack of management capability” in dealing with the crisis and a “lack of qualifications” among staff left commuters in the lurch for days.
In a demonstration of peak bureaucracy brain, the crisis was handled as a “sequence of tasks” that were each delayed as people debated what to do.
“There were hours that simply disappeared as this happened,” the report says.
In fact, staff took so long deciding how to fix the problem that when wiring was being repaired, crews had “exceeded their shift” and went home.
While the Premier was preoccupied cutting ribbons on new Metro projects that he played no part in building, he left the network that does the heavy lifting in rust and decay.
The government has been so distracted by its shiny new toys that it has neglected the workhorse without which the city grinds to a halt.
Transport Minister John Graham has at least conceded there were failures on this government’s watch.
He said “missteps and mishandling” turned what should have been a day of disruption into “two days of chaos”.
Sydney Trains chief executive Matt Longland apologised for letting passengers down. He conceded that the problem should never have happened and, once it did, it should have been fixed within a day.
The fact is that no government can promise a faultless public transport network. But major failings on the heavy rail network have become too frequent and too disruptive to ignore.
The $423m Graham has now pledged for remedial work over the next four years is a good start.
“It’s not enough to put the bandage on the wound, we actually have to treat the wound more substantially,” he said.
This, of course, means more frustration and pain for commuters.
The Coalition argues none of this should ever have happened.
“They’ve had three budgets, they’ve had three train review reports, over a million bucks spent on reviewers,” said Liberal transport spokeswoman Natalie Ward.
“The rail system is worse than when they came in, in 2023,” she told DTTV.
Ward argues that the money Graham is promising to spend fixing major defects will come at the expense of other work.
The government has already raised the white flag on building any new Metro lines, because it does not have the cash.
But the government has now paid for three reports, from two reviews, on how to fix Sydney’s heavy rail network.
Minns may be the Premier who hit the ground reviewing, but this latest report must be the last.
The government does not need any more costly reviews telling it something it should already know. [UNQUOTE]
Tony P
Matthew Geier
Yes, it adds to the total, but the stations the extra time is required are a small number of the total stops the train makes each run.
I'd say put the heavy rail trains doors on a timer (with different times for busy vs quiet stations) instead. The guard is not going to close the doors while people are still using them and the people on the platform know the guard won't close the door till clear. So they keep trying to pile on, making the dwell time even longer.
The automated metro - the doors are going to close when the timer expires no matter how many people are trying to cram their way on.
The original Singapore MRT lines that had supervised ATO - the doors were under the control of the 'driver'. A few years ago they changed those lines to operate on door timers to improve service timekeeping. So instead of the human up front waiting for the doors to be clear before pressing the door close button, the timer expires and the doors start to close no matter what.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/B945C404-F5D4-4566-A092-45833C882F40%40yahoo.com.
Robert Taaffe
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/47907e11-5e81-4d7a-8881-663fb341795e%40sleeper.apana.org.au.
Brian Blunt
On 26 Sep 2025, at 17:44, Robert Taaffe <rtaa...@gmail.com> wrote:
This morning on the Shore, Chatswood - Gordon the trains were running 2 - 3 minutes apart on the down. Most trains I was on, dwell time (train came to a start to start moving) was around 25 seconds, but no more than 25. Metro was no better than 3, normally 5 min or greater headways and the DD were loading a lot more people. Where is the advantage?
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/8FF40B23-30FE-4A39-8917-A4955128183E%40gmail.com.
TP
bblun...@yahoo.com
Richard Youl
On 25 Sep 2025, at 6:53 pm, Robert Taaffe <rtaa...@gmail.com> wrote:
Re the loading/dwell time. If you talk to Sydney drivers they will tell you that at most stations passengers, in the main, either get on or off. Those going both ways in numbers are at some junctions and the city stations like Town Hall and Wynyard and Central Electric and at those additional dwell time is allowed. Dwell time as not as big an issue as everyone keeps making out.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/ADE45E57-037B-4BB3-94C7-BC7EFA552245%40gmail.com.
Robert Taaffe
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/505BC9ED-0ED3-4674-9A12-A6A7ABD2936C%40yahoo.com.au.