New guy

[Billy]

Hi there,

I'm pretty keen to get some android development experience, and this
app is one that I'll probably use all the time, so I looks like I
found the project that I want to contribute to, yay!

I'm a coder by training, but these days I'm mostly a UI guy, and so
that's probably where I think I'll add the most value to this project.

Saw on @tram_hunter's twitter that some UI improvements' is currently
being looked at, anything I can contribute to?

[Andy Botting]

Hi Billy!

Great to hear you're interested.

I've been working on another project 'Tube Chaser' where I've been
using some of Google's recommended UI stuff.

If you want to have a look, I have a first pre-market build with some
of the UI stuff that I'd like to eventually bring to Tram Hunter.

http://code.google.com/p/tubechaser/

You can find an APK in the Downloads list -- but there's no source
just yet. I'm just finishing up some cleanups and adding the license
headers to all the files first.

Try it out and let me know what you think, and also take a poke around
some of the TH source. Love to get some ideas from you.

cheers,

Andy

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[Billy]

Very cool! You're working on the Tube Chaser as well?? Where do you
actually live?!

I got the .apk and I see what you mean by the twitter app, it does
have a similar style for the home screen layout. I like the tango
icons (which the flag isn't, right?), I use them often too.

Just a quick question up front, what's your thoughts on mimicking the
iPhone version of the interface? I've got no problem either way. Pros
of doing that is that it takes less training for former iphone users
to pick up the android version, and faster for us to execute since we
already have something to base on, on what's generally regarded as a
proven interface; cons is that we do loose some of the project's
identity, but as long as we don't follow it too religiously to the
point where we give up obvious benefits I think it's fine.

[Andy Botting]

Heh, yeah I'm in London right now. It's funny, because I've never
actually really used Tram Hunter, except for development testing. It
definitely makes the location-based activities really hard to test
properly.

I used Tango (and Gnome) icons, and also made a couple of my own from
pulling in parts of other icons. I'm not much of an artist really, so
it's nice to have something to build upon.

So, on the topic of the interface...

To be honest, I hate the iPhone interface for Tram Hunter. I'm hardly
a UI expert, but there's a couple of really frustrating things that
really break good UI design.

The first is that when you're trying to view departure times for a
stop, if there is more than one tram line, then you need to wait a few
seconds for the screen to roll around before you can see all of the
times. I want to see that shit right now, not have to wait a few
seconds (on top of downloading the times over 3g or whatever).
Mimicking the screens at tram stops doesn't exactly work for a mobile
phone. Totally different purpose.

Second, I find that navigating the interface is way too complicated
and a little cluttered. It's more of a minor thing, but it irritates
me.

Tram Hunter is better because it has a very clean and simple design.
From the front screen, you can have one click to nearest or favourite
stops.. or a couple of clicks to browse through routes. Once you get
to your stop, you can see *instantly* all the times that the API will
give us. No waiting a couple of seconds for it to roll around.

Do you see any real benefits of the iPhone interface that you think
we're missing out on?

cheers,

Andy

[Billy]

I see what you're saying, about the iPhone interface.
The approach that I tend to take is identify the main types of users
of this app, who are they how they use this app, then design for these
people.
You're right that mimicking the whole tram screen thing won't work,
but even partially will help a whole lot, for average / new users to
this app, because that's what they are used to seeing.

Is the mailing list the best way to discuss about the interface?
Interface discussion can get really loooong, and heated sometimes.

[Andy Botting]

You can send them directly to me if you like.

Can't guarantee that I'll like what you're suggesting though :)

[Ted Landy]

I would like to add my vote against cloning the iPhone interface. Current interface is simple and works. Perhaps it lacks eye candy and colour of the iPhone counterpart which is of dubious merit anyway.
One cannot assume new users will be familiar with or even like the iPhone interface anyhow.

[James Barker]

Hi Billy and Ted,

I agree!

Also. Can we now include functionality to merge two views together :)))))

For example. When I walk out of my door I live close to two different tram stops.

I want to be able to merge the two stops, and order the trams by time in one view.

The reason for this is when I walk out the door, I get the both stops information on one screen and it shows me which tram is coming first.  

This means I dont have to go back and forth looking at two separate pages.

We had something similar but it was a little different (and confusing). but some people saw this and they loved it (well the ones that live between two stops).

I think being able to merge two stops is a better solution than the previous attempt.  And then we can have an option that says on start up show closest merge stop.

what ya think? good little UI project?

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Ted Landy <tedl...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would like to add my vote against cloning the iPhone interface. Current interface is simple and works. Perhaps it lacks eye candy and colour of the iPhone counterpart which is of dubious merit anyway.
One cannot assume new users will be familiar with or even like the iPhone interface anyhow.

--

[Billy]

Wait wait, I'm not currently suggesting anything, I'd just like to get
some idea of what people think at this point. As much fun as it is for
Android devs to bash anything iPhone, I just hope that personal
feelings / platform politics won't override usage designs.

(why yes, my self introduction into a community is going swimmingly...)

UI design it's more about usage testing than about pretty buttons, but
I'm sure you guys know that.

I think it's great that there's usage tracking already built in,
that's going to help alot of user scenarios, and I assume can be
modified to test how different activity views / controls are used.

[Matt Byrne]

I tend to agree with Billy here ... there might just be certain aspects of iPhone app UI that could benefit this app. Of course without going overboard and copying the bits of theirs that aren't that great (low-res, stupid corporate icons, waste of screen in some places, etc).

After all the whole idea of including the tram icon was a directly copied from the iPhone app, which is why it made it into the android version. That being said, I still don't own an android yet :-S

[Andy Botting]

Guys,

I'm loving the intensity on the list. About time we had some action on here.

I definitely think it's time for a bit of UI action, and if you
haven't seen my new project Tube Chaser, go and download Test2 from
http://code.google.com/p/tubechaser/

I've been experimenting with Google recommended UI stuff in this new
project. It's basically been a testbed for the UI that I am bringing
to Tram Hunter.

If you want to get a feel for what I'm trying to achieve, you should read this:
http://blog.radioactiveyak.com/2010/10/android-app-surgery-cycle-hire-widget.html

And watch the Google I/O session on Android UI design patterns (about
1hr, YouTube)
http://www.google.com/events/io/2010/sessions/android-ui-design-patterns.html

So, go and install Tube Chaser RIGHT NOW, and imagine Tube Hunter
looking very similar.. then reply to this list!

Later

[ozgreg]

It is great to see the list fire up like this and the passion to turn
what is a really really useful app into a work of art.. Showcasing the
clever country.. ;)

Of course expect me to take a back seat until it is time to test, then
you are at my mercy ...... :-)

[Billy]

Well, good to know that UI is an area that everyone cares about;
though just kind of funny that all this activity is under a thread
called "New Guy". (What is this? An episode of "Saved by the bell"??)

I'll go through Andy's recommended stuff over the weekend, and at the
mean time I'll post some usage questions.