Testing of VO2Max etc at OA in Saco.

[Poop D O G G]

I've been curious about getting tested for VO2Max, Lactate Threshhold etc. and Orthopedic Assoc. in Saco does this. They apparently offer a discount if 4 or more sign up at the same time. Who's in with me?

http://www.orthoassociates.com/LP10/pc_lab_physio.php

Red Meat Poop

[Jeremy Bonnett]

I'm in

 

Jeremy

From: Poop D O G G <james...@gmail.com>
To: trail-mons...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 9:19 PM
Subject: Testing of VO2Max etc at OA in Saco.

I've been curious about getting tested for VO2Max, Lactate Threshhold etc. and Orthopedic Assoc. in Saco does this. They apparently offer a discount if 4 or more sign up at the same time. Who's in with me?

http://www.orthoassociates.com/LP10/pc_lab_physio.php

Red Meat Poop

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[Joe Wrobleski]

When are you scheduled?

[James Demer]

No time scheduled yet, just seeing who is interested. We get a discount with 4 people or more.

James

Cell# 207/329-2894

[Joe Wrobleski]

I'm interested.

[James Demer]

OK I'll give them a call and see what kind of  a discount we get and what times are available and whether we all need to do it at the same time or not.

Here is the menu- http://www.orthoassociates.com/LP10/pc_lab_physio.php

[Joe Wrobleski]

I'd be interested in #1, the VO2 Max.

[Blaine Moore]

That's something that is on my "going to do at some point" list, but right now isn't really in the budget unless the discount for 4 people is pretty steep.  I don't know if there are any programs locally that do it, but you can sometimes get this done free or cheap by local university's so that students can get experience conducting the tests...which for the purposes I'd put it to would probably be good enough. But, haven't actually looked into that yet.

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[Ryan Triffitt]

I don't need to slobber into a tube for a half hour to know that I'll never be able to get a veggie burger as quickly as Jeff. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Chuck Hazzard]

No slobbering into a tube. You just need to breathe through a tube and run to your red line on a treadmill. The sad part is that VO2MAX is just a number which some believe is your god given potential. The lactate threshold is something you can at least train to, which the test will yield, but you will need to re-run the test periodically to see if you are making progress. 

As for me, I am just happy to be able to run injury free.

[Jeremy Bonnett]

Well I'd love to go but didn't see the price.  Didn't think it would be quite that much actually.  If there is an awesome discount I'd love to go and find this out.  I've wanted to be tested for years with full diagnostics, but since the Olympics are not around the corner for me I can't justify the price.

 

Thanks for the invite though!

 

Jeremy

From: Chuck Hazzard <tcha...@gmail.com>
To: Trail Monster Running <trail-mons...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 2:44 PM

Subject: Re: Testing of VO2Max etc at OA in Saco.

[Jamie Anderson]

Serious questions: What do you guys plan to do with the info gathered? How will it help you improve? I've always found that kind of data interesting but don't know much about it and what to do with it. 

-The Rock of J

[James Demer]

I want to get a baseline of my fitness level before I start the Livestrong Steroid Program. Its on sale.

Poop

Cell# 207/329-2894

[Jeff Walker]

Good question. I'll start but this will be very incomplete. Lots of training paces (anaerobic threshold, aerobic threshold, tempo, endurance, recovery) are based on %VdotO2max. Others are based on %Lactate Threshold, which is another test they do. These can be combined with heart rate training (so %HR at lactate threshold for example). Daniel's book or McMillan's calculator is effectively a substitute where training paces are based off of some reference race and Daniels even calls these vdot tables. Canova bases his paces off of goal pace at a future race so no VdotO2max, no lactate, etc.

I don't know how much college or elite coaches use VdotO2max/threshold as a training tool. I do know ski coaches use these combined with HR but I think skiers ski much more by heart rate than specific paces since specific pace is meaningless given variation in terrain, snow conditions etc. Trail running should be more like skiing than like road running, that is, HR training (combined or not with say HR at lactate threshold) should be more useful than a specific pace given varied elevation changes, technicalness, etc. of trail.

[Blaine Moore]

I'd give heart training a more informed try. 

Currently, the few times that I've done heart rate training have either been useless (my coach pulling a number out of a hat and then having everybody go off of the one person's heart rate reaching that number) or only moderately successful (hill repeats to get a max effective heart rate and then testing out %max heart rate or using karvonen method to test heart rate zones.)

If I knew what my heart rate was at various points and how efficient I was in using hte oxygen coming in, I'd be able to better train w/a heart rate monitor and might actually wear it for a full training cycle.

But, I'm not too worried about it, hence why anything close to their price isn't really in my budget at the moment.

  - Blaine

[jim]

Based on all the comments, it might be worth it to see if they would give a seminar on the benefits

of VO2max/Lactate threshold testing for *runners* and how to apply it to one's training goals.

They might already do this once or twice a year. 

Yes you can read their stuff online or go grab a book about it, but going through it with someone

live and see how to apply it to specific training could probalby convince a few more to do it.

But what do I know... 

"he who hasn't run in way too long"

[James Demer]

Using a HR monitor is much more of a time investment than a dollar investment. The straps are inexpensive and most of our GPS watches are capable of measuring HR. I started using a HR monitor almost 20 years ago when I was racing bicycles. I learned then that using a HR monitor is about consistently measuring your HR during every workout and evaluating changes. So things like knowing your max HR are interesting but become really helpful when you start to discover how close to that you can get and still maintain aerobic activity, and for how long.
It can help you figure out if you're over training, how effective your training program is over the long term, and when to go hard or back off in a race.
It takes time to collect and sort through the data but for me its a very satisfying tool. I just started using a HR monitor again after years without and now I dont run without it.
I've had periods of my life where I would only wear an analog watch on runs because all the data just distracted me from the joy of running. I guess you choose your Geek Level and decide whether a HR monitor is good for you.

I dont mind spending the $ for a VOMax, or more importantly to me, a Lactate Threshold test because I am really enjoying the Ambit watch and the data it spits out at me. I'd like to have more information about my body, and what its doing while I'm running or nordic skiing. Its just fun for me, no more. Lance Armstrong is a doper.

P Dogg

Cell# 207/329-2894

[pathfinder]

Jeff has the best answers to questions like this......though sometimes
I don't really know what he said.
For a mid packer like myself, I don't think VO2max is very usefull
information. I find that percieved effort and heart rate to be my best
means of feeling in control of my training. Not that I really benefit
all that much from any of the data I collect on my running.

I suspect most of it is piece of mind and a hint that I have some
sort of control. The one thing I find with heart rate is that I can
sometimes "get over" a bad run when I see the heart rate was quite
high, which tells me the body is tired. Also there are times when I
"feel" I am running to my max and the brain says I can't put in any
more effort....but I look at my heart rate and see it is not peaking,
it helps convince me that I can push harder and I usually do.

The one time heart rate really helped was when I ran the first 50K
and used heart rate to keep myself from putting in too much effort
during the first 2/3 of the race. I can say that it worked very well
and allowed me to finish strong.

What this all boils down to is, use what ever means that helps you in
your runs.

[Jamie Anderson]

Good insight, thanks. Yes, I loved my HR monitor when it worked and found it beneficial for the same reasons you listed. Too bad Garmin's HR system is notoriously crappy lately. Mine stopped working after a few months and I haven't bothered to experiment to see if straps from other manufacturers would perform better, but that's neither here nor there. Good luck with the tests, looking forward to hearing how they go. 

J-Rock

[Jeff Walker]

Jamie -

I'm on my 2nd garmin strap this season but I'm rinsing this one immediately after every run. From what I've read, the accumulated salt/sweat destroys it if this isn't done. So far so good, in fact I've only had a single abnormal beginning-of-run spike this whole summer. And I haven't been using spit either.

Buy another strap from Amazon. Run. Rinse.Repeat.

[Joe Wrobleski]

This is an interesting discussion.  I am still relatively new to endurance running, having come from a tradition of relative sloth.  I have never owned a heart rate monitor, though I understand I could get more out of my body if I trained with one.  To figure out marathon pace, I just run shorter races and take my cue from those results.  I have also found juicing to be helpful.  This makes me wonder why I would want a VO2 max test - probably to confirm my suspicion that my VO2 max sucks.

[Chuck Hazzard]

There are lots of different views on how best to train to become faster and increase endurance. One common theme is that many endurance athletes over train.  The best way to determine this is by looking at your heart rate variability.  Suunto and Polar have incorporated this measurement into their devices for many years, making use of the algorithms developed by First Beat Technologies. 

    http://www.firstbeat.fi/

Garmin has included First Beat into the 610 and 910.

First Beat is backward looking.  In other words, it can help you determine how hard your workout was and whether you should increase or decrease the intensity of the next workout. 

The Suunto Movescount site provides feedback from First Beat, but if you want more comprehensive data you should purchase and download the First Beat Athlete application.  It is something which even Jeff would drool over. 

Another helpful thing is quantifying your level of recovery each morning so you can better tailor the daily workout.  Polar includes some tests to help with this.  You can also pick up some neat gadgets such as ithlete, which will tell you if you are ready to rock and roll or your body needs a lighter workout or rest day.

   http://myithlete.com/

Finally, if you really want professional help, the folks at Rest Wise offer a service which uses questions to determine your level of recovery.  This is used by a lot of the top endurance athletes.

   http://restwise.com/

Enjoy!

P.S. My Polar 625SX has a test which estimates your VO2MAX.  The results of this test matched up exactly to what Doug Welling determined using the New Leaf system.  I wrote about this test for Maine Multisport several years ago.

   http://barefoottc.blogspot.com/2007/03/what-is-under-your-hood.html

[4Rails]

I'm interested, and have a very tight budget.

4

[Chuck Hazzard]

I forgot to mention another way to check your recovery level in the morning is to download Azumio's Stress Check application. It uses HRV to check stress level. So low stress equals recovered. High stress means not recovered. You need to run any of these morning tests when you first wake up and before drinking or eating anything.