Mt. W part deux
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Jeff Walker
Feb 15, 2012, 6:18:27 PM2/15/12
to Trail Monster Running
Everyone should recognize that the entry fee into Mount Washington is high for a typical road race in Maine - $80. This is of course chump change compared to the entry fee for a big marathon or just about any decent triathlon, but still it's about 2X the most expensive race that I run.
Jamie Anderson
Feb 15, 2012, 6:22:24 PM2/15/12
to Jeff Walker, Trail Monster Running
Mt. Washington Road Race = $10.53 per mile
NYC Marathon = $9.73 per mile
Boston Marathon = $5.73 per mileVermont 100 = $2.00 per mile
Pineland Farms 50-mile = $1.20 per mile (plus free food and beer at the finish)
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Jeff Walker <middle.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
Everyone should recognize that the entry fee into Mount Washington is high for a typical road race in Maine - $80. This is of course chump change compared to the entry fee for a big marathon or just about any decent triathlon, but still it's about 2X the most expensive race that I run.
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Jeff Walker
Feb 15, 2012, 6:43:03 PM2/15/12
to Jamie Anderson, Trail Monster Running
Yeh, another discussion!
In one sense, I think an event is an event so to compare events on a per mile basis is a little silly although I definitely agree that it just feels wrong to pay say $100 for something as short as a 5K. On the other hand, $200 for the Vermont 100. R U Kididing me? I can buy a sweet pair of used race skis from an ex college skier on Craigslist for that and would much rather have the skis - I just don't have that kind of money to spend on a race. I didn't bother to register for Boston this year because of the registration. Been there done that. $80 for Mt. W is also high for me - even though this was my favorite race over the last couple of years, I didn't bother with the lottery last year after they doubled the price. But it is a unique race AT THE WORLD LEVEL and a chunk of that race fee goes into supporting something that I'm interested in (the Great Glen nordic center). That said, the thought of running up from Pinkham notch for FREE and watching the racers at the top is FREE!
Jeff
gIANt
Feb 15, 2012, 6:45:04 PM2/15/12
to Trail Monster Running
I probably ate $100 worth of food during the VT 100 over the course of
nearly 23 hours. That race is a bargain considering the amount of
support that you get (and NEED), marathons don't need to have aid
stations every two miles and the entry fee certainly can't be
justified in what's provided at the aid stations.
gIANt
On Feb 15, 6:43 pm, Jeff Walker <middle.profes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeh, another discussion!
>
> In one sense, I think an event is an event so to compare events on a per mile basis is a little silly although I definitely agree that it just feels wrong to pay say $100 for something as short as a 5K. On the other hand, $200 for the Vermont 100. R U Kididing me? I can buy a sweet pair of used race skis from an ex college skier on Craigslist for that and would much rather have the skis - I just don't have that kind of money to spend on a race. I didn't bother to register for Boston this year because of the registration. Been there done that. $80 for Mt. W is also high for me - even though this was my favorite race over the last couple of years, I didn't bother with the lottery last year after they doubled the price. But it is a unique race AT THE WORLD LEVEL and a chunk of that race fee goes into supporting something that I'm interested in (the Great Glen nordic center). That said, the thought of running up from Pinkham notch for FREE and watching the racers at the top is FREE!
>
> Jeff
>
> On Feb 15, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Jamie Anderson wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mt. Washington Road Race = $10.53 per mile
> > NYC Marathon = $9.73 per mile
> > Boston Marathon = $5.73 per mile
> > Vermont 100 = $2.00 per mile
> > Pineland Farms 50-mile = $1.20 per mile (plus free food and beer at the finish)
>
nearly 23 hours. That race is a bargain considering the amount of
support that you get (and NEED), marathons don't need to have aid
stations every two miles and the entry fee certainly can't be
justified in what's provided at the aid stations.
gIANt
On Feb 15, 6:43 pm, Jeff Walker <middle.profes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeh, another discussion!
>
> In one sense, I think an event is an event so to compare events on a per mile basis is a little silly although I definitely agree that it just feels wrong to pay say $100 for something as short as a 5K. On the other hand, $200 for the Vermont 100. R U Kididing me? I can buy a sweet pair of used race skis from an ex college skier on Craigslist for that and would much rather have the skis - I just don't have that kind of money to spend on a race. I didn't bother to register for Boston this year because of the registration. Been there done that. $80 for Mt. W is also high for me - even though this was my favorite race over the last couple of years, I didn't bother with the lottery last year after they doubled the price. But it is a unique race AT THE WORLD LEVEL and a chunk of that race fee goes into supporting something that I'm interested in (the Great Glen nordic center). That said, the thought of running up from Pinkham notch for FREE and watching the racers at the top is FREE!
>
> Jeff
>
> On Feb 15, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Jamie Anderson wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mt. Washington Road Race = $10.53 per mile
> > NYC Marathon = $9.73 per mile
> > Boston Marathon = $5.73 per mile
> > Vermont 100 = $2.00 per mile
> > Pineland Farms 50-mile = $1.20 per mile (plus free food and beer at the finish)
>
Chuck Hazzard
Feb 15, 2012, 7:30:19 PM2/15/12
to Trail Monster Running
Aid Stations? Marathons give out crappy water and not much else. I would hardly call that aid.
Jamie Anderson
Feb 15, 2012, 7:35:51 PM2/15/12
to tcha...@gmail.com, Trail Monster Running
Yeah but, c'mon now...do you really need much else for a road marathon? If they stocked their aid stations like they did the Vermont 100, I bet finishing times would drop by at least 25%. :-)
Chuck Hazzard
Feb 15, 2012, 7:40:03 PM2/15/12
to Trail Monster Running
I personally do not drink water at aid stations unless I forget to bring a water bottle with me.
Ryan Triffitt
Feb 15, 2012, 7:48:13 PM2/15/12
to Trail Monster Running
I may know a bit about this one. ;-)
First off, if you calculate the cost of a race based solely on its distance, you've obviously never directed/organized a race before. The cost isn't based on distance. It's based on logistics. Yes, the longer the race, the greater the logistical challenge, but it's not a direct correlation. It's a lot easier for us to manage the Bradbury Bruiser, 12 miles, than it is to manage the Mid-Winter 10 mile. Bear in mind, that is in no way a defense of the cost of Mt. Washington.
Interesting statistic: the year that Mt. Washington went from $45 to $80, entrants in the lottery actually increased over the previous year. For the market, cost was not a barrier to entering the race. It may be a barrier for you...or you...or you...but not the vast majority of the market. Business 101: If you can get a certain price, you take a certain price. This fact touches onJeff's point about the caliber of race, but more importantly, speaks directly to the mystique of the race and Mt. Washington. Mt. Washington is an icon, and running up it is a badge of honor for any runner. That's why so many of us have that bumper sticker. People will pay for that privilege. Again, that is in no way a defense of the cost of Mt. Washington.
Bearing all that in mind, $80 is too much for that race. The previous price of $45 was too low. If anyone wants to buy me a beer, I'll tell you why it's $80, why it's a mistake to charge that and how it should be priced and managed.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Chuck Hazzard <tcha...@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan Morrison
Feb 15, 2012, 7:59:50 PM2/15/12
to ryantr...@gmail.com, Trail Monster Running
I think it would be way more fun to camp at Dry
River Campground, run from there over several peaks to get to Mount W, then run
down the aptly named Desolation Trail back to Dry River Campground, where we
have cold beer waiting. This could be done in conjunction with spectating
the race, but not necessary. I throw this out there, but then I'll
probably end up being busy with some other thing that I have to do, which is by
Blaine's definition, not fun...
gIANt
Feb 15, 2012, 8:08:57 PM2/15/12
to Trail Monster Running
I think the cost of a race is also based on the potential to make a
profit and the motivation of the race directors, sometimes much more
than the logistics of the event.
gIANt
> ryantriff...@gmail.com
profit and the motivation of the race directors, sometimes much more
than the logistics of the event.
gIANt
Jeremy Bonnett
Feb 15, 2012, 8:15:05 PM2/15/12
to Alan Morrison, ryantr...@gmail.com, Trail Monster Running
I've done this in a hiking sense Alan and it's an absolute blast!! Did it with my cousin and a friend.
Jeremy
From: Alan Morrison <almor...@maine.rr.com>
To: ryantr...@gmail.com; Trail Monster Running <trail-mons...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TMR Forum] Re: Mt. W part deux
I think it would be way more fun to camp at Dry
River Campground, run from there over several peaks to get to Mount W, then run
down the aptly named Desolation Trail back to Dry River Campground, where we
have cold beer waiting. This could be done in conjunction with spectating
the race, but not necessary. I throw this out there, but then I'll
probably end up being busy with some other thing that I have to do, which is by
Blaine's definition, not fun...
Ryan Triffitt
Feb 15, 2012, 8:20:55 PM2/15/12
to gIANt, Trail Monster Running
That's my second point. If people will spend it, go get it.
However, back to that beer/spoiler alert, the profit from that race is far, far, far less than you'd think. You and I could make a bigger profit at $55 a head.
unstrung
Feb 15, 2012, 8:21:11 PM2/15/12
to Trail Monster Running
Alan: I like the way you think. A wicked lot. This needs to happen.
Chandra Leister
Feb 15, 2012, 9:55:07 PM2/15/12
to unstrung, Trail Monster Running
The year the Mt. Washington race doubled coincides with the year that Dave "Race Director of the Boston Marathon" McGillvary started organizing it, because while DMSE (his company) is annoying in several ways, it knows a cash cow when it sees one.
the maine track club gets 10 entries, so if you're a member, you can enter into that lottery. email me, and I'll put you on the list.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 8:21 PM, unstrung <fret...@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan: I like the way you think. A wicked lot. This needs to happen.
Erik Boucher
Feb 15, 2012, 11:04:37 PM2/15/12
to Jeff Walker, Trail Monster Running
Mount Washington is a major brand that’s been cultivated for how long 40+ years? Dave McGillvary doesn’t need to lift a finger thanks to the efforts made by his predecessors and he can jack the price up to $80 with impunity. It’s a unique experience, a quality event, and it sells out every year. I wouldn’t be surprised if the price goes up again soon.
Same thing with Beach To Beacon. People are gaga over that event and it must be the most expensive 10k around.
These events are so silly I wouldn’t even consider them. They’ve lost their soul.
Erik
--
gIANt
Feb 15, 2012, 11:27:20 PM2/15/12
to Trail Monster Running
Mt Washington seems about as logistically simple as I can imagine. One
dead end road, no intersections, no traffic, no course marking.
Participants are responsible for finding their own way down and their
drivers have to pay if their car isn't full. Is there more than one
entity involved with any of the land that's used?
It's clear what the reason is for the high entry fee, which is why
many of us choose not to run the race. I'm definitely interested in
the free mountain running options that day (or any other day).
gIANt
dead end road, no intersections, no traffic, no course marking.
Participants are responsible for finding their own way down and their
drivers have to pay if their car isn't full. Is there more than one
entity involved with any of the land that's used?
It's clear what the reason is for the high entry fee, which is why
many of us choose not to run the race. I'm definitely interested in
the free mountain running options that day (or any other day).
gIANt
Jeff Walker
Feb 15, 2012, 11:33:37 PM2/15/12
to Erik Boucher, Trail Monster Running
Both Mount Washington and B2B attract incredibly competitive running fields so its fun to toe the line with these guys and see how you stack up. I'm talking about the other 40 and 50 year olds, not the world champion affricans or mountain runners. Racing against these fast old dudes humbles me and gives me a full appreciation of how fast some people run. It also makes me want to train harder and run faster. By contrast something like Mother's Day 5K, which has 2000 runners, gives me the illusion that I'm a fast runner but that's only because the field isn't very competitive.
Erik Boucher
Feb 16, 2012, 7:24:52 AM2/16/12
to Jeff Walker, Trail Monster Running
I often think about what makes a good running event, and found that the more I think about it the more I don’t know. However one thing I’m pretty sure about is that competitiveness correlates with price. If you want to find the most competitive field just look for the most expensive race. Around here that’s B2B, Mount Washington, Boston Marathon.
In the triathlon world Rev3 is coming to Maine this summer. For a mere $275 you can do a half- iron man, or an olympic for $175. The all-women’s SheJams Olympic event will only cost you $175 plus a minimum $100 fundraising. With a $25,000 purse prize the field will be stacked with pros, just like B2B.
Ryan Triffitt
Feb 16, 2012, 8:10:25 AM2/16/12
to Erik Boucher, Jeff Walker, Trail Monster Running
Mt. Washington is more logistically difficult than you might imagine. In many ways it's similar to the Boston Marathon: in Hopkinton, they have to put a lot of people in a very small area. Mt. Washington is the same at both the top and bottom. Making that work is difficult and expensive.
I've just about bitten through my tongue on this one, but I will say this: Dave McGillvary didn't demand that the price be $80. It wasn't his company's decision.
What we know as runners is that the "best" events aren't the biggest events. It really bums me out that most casual runners only go to the big races. Imagine if B2B was you're only road racing experience. That wouldn't make me want to come back.
Jeff Walker
Feb 16, 2012, 8:30:02 AM2/16/12
to ryantr...@gmail.com, Erik Boucher, Trail Monster Running
"best event" and "good running event" are going to vary among people and even within a person.
As I said, I enjoy (find it fun!) getting schooled by fast guys my age because it motivates me to work harder. I enjoy that feeling of competition. I can't get this at many local races or at least with any depth. So I run B2B not for the huge field or the scenery or the food or socializing at the end but for the competition. It is there and it is fierce. Ditto Mt. Washington. Many of the Grand Prix races in Mass are like these and while I've not run any I find them very attractive for the same reason and am trying to pull a group of masters together to go down and toe the line.
Other people like racing for the beautiful scenery so a good race would have to have that element in abundance. Other people like a particular race because their group of running buddies are there in hordes so the race would have to have that element. Other people like stuff like barbed wire and artificial mudpits. Other people like beer and music at the end. Other people like 100 miles of bushwacking.
So there isn't any one formula for a "best" event. I have zero interest in an event with an artificial mud pit. I enjoy the trail monster races because I like socializing with my buddies after the race but these are not my favorite events. I'd rather field a team and go compete against other teams than against my friends.
When I'm racing, I'm very tuned into my body and scenery and friendships don't count for much. Again, to me, the best formula for a great race is whatever it takes to land a competitive field. That said, something like Boston is too big and impersonal. I know or at least know of my competition at B2B and Mount Washington.
Jeff
Jamie Anderson
Feb 16, 2012, 8:38:57 AM2/16/12
to Jeff Walker, ryantr...@gmail.com, Erik Boucher, Trail Monster Running
Yeah, but.... there comes a point where the price reaches a threshold that causes some to think "No effin' way". As Ryan pointed out, Mt. W can handle the price increase. Still, if you get enough people thinking "no effin' way", regardless if the race fills up or not, it's still negative publicity...especially in this day and age of social media and nearly instantaneous mass communication. I think to some extent this has tarnished Western States 100 reputation.
Jeff Walker
Feb 16, 2012, 8:53:41 AM2/16/12
to Jamie Anderson, ryantr...@gmail.com, Erik Boucher, Trail Monster Running
totally agree. Last year I didn't bother with the Mount Washington lottery solely because of the fee. Back in the day (way before my day but from what I've read) races where cheap and there were few frills. Just a bunch of fast guys at the start line. To me that's a good model for a great race. But it's not going to make any money for charity or give out finisher's medals. Speaking of, there was lots of discussion about the sacrilege of some guy selling his Boston finisher's medal on e-bay. I thought it was brilliant and would do that with zero guilt. A finisher's medal for an event like Boston is a joke - it's a race that you have to qualify to enter. Selling it on e-bay is a political statement - an act of civil disobedience that reflects my attitude of what I think degrades the event from a race to recreational run. A medal to all qualifiers makes more sense, because you've earned it.
Jeff
pathfinder
Feb 16, 2012, 9:32:21 AM2/16/12
to Trail Monster Running
How about a comment from a different perspective. Being a much slower
runner than most of you guys and gals, competition ends up being the
person in front of me at any given moment. I am not able to qualify
for races like Boston marathon but would definately like to experience
it at least once. A person (like me) might be willing to pay a higher
price for entrance because that is the only avenue available if I want
to run. The price of Boston would not deter me if I was able to get a
slot.
Putting a dozen speedsters next to me in a race that I have no chance
in hell of running with in the first 1/2 mile never mind beating,
would only deter me from showing up unless there are some "like kind"
arround so I don't feel so inadequate. Like we mentioned before, just
because a person runs half as fast doesn't mean they are putting in
any less effort.
I agree some of these races prices are getting rediculous but they
only stay there because people are paying the price to enter. As long
as there is demand the cost will not go down. Now if the lottery at
Mount Washington only brought in half of the allotment, then there
would be changes. I will bet at the high price of $80.00, there will
still be many people with money to spend that will not get in.
Whith me, it had nothing to do with competition or price, it was more
about me conqouring the massive task and for a runner like me it is
was not how fast so much as will I finish. I wish I had done a better
job and ran faster, but honestly I feel that way about most races.
I would almost bet that the super fast elite runners in the high
profile races are not paying the entrance fee and surely are not
hoping to get picked in the lottery. Of course it makes good business
sense as it draws more runners hence more profit and or charity
dollars.
Speaking of charity, if the cause is good and a large percentage of
each dollar helps needy people, then I have no problem paying a higher
price if I can afford it.
All that being said,I do enjoy a high profile race like B to B but my
favorite races are the types that are put on by Trail monsters and the
like.........and lucky for me, they are not out of my price range.
On Feb 16, 8:53 am, Jeff Walker <middle.profes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> totally agree. Last year I didn't bother with the Mount Washington lottery solely because of the fee. Back in the day (way before my day but from what I've read) races where cheap and there were few frills. Just a bunch of fast guys at the start line. To me that's a good model for a great race. But it's not going to make any money for charity or give out finisher's medals. Speaking of, there was lots of discussion about the sacrilege of some guy selling his Boston finisher's medal on e-bay. I thought it was brilliant and would do that with zero guilt. A finisher's medal for an event like Boston is a joke - it's a race that you have to qualify to enter. Selling it on e-bay is a political statement - an act of civil disobedience that reflects my attitude of what I think degrades the event from a race to recreational run. A medal to all qualifiers makes more sense, because you've earned it.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:38 AM, Jamie Anderson wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yeah, but.... there comes a point where the price reaches a threshold that causes some to think "No effin' way". As Ryan pointed out, Mt. W can handle the price increase. Still, if you get enough people thinking "no effin' way", regardless if the race fills up or not, it's still negative publicity...especially in this day and age of social media and nearly instantaneous mass communication. I think to some extent this has tarnished Western States 100 reputation.
>
> >> ryantriff...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
runner than most of you guys and gals, competition ends up being the
person in front of me at any given moment. I am not able to qualify
for races like Boston marathon but would definately like to experience
it at least once. A person (like me) might be willing to pay a higher
price for entrance because that is the only avenue available if I want
to run. The price of Boston would not deter me if I was able to get a
slot.
Putting a dozen speedsters next to me in a race that I have no chance
in hell of running with in the first 1/2 mile never mind beating,
would only deter me from showing up unless there are some "like kind"
arround so I don't feel so inadequate. Like we mentioned before, just
because a person runs half as fast doesn't mean they are putting in
any less effort.
I agree some of these races prices are getting rediculous but they
only stay there because people are paying the price to enter. As long
as there is demand the cost will not go down. Now if the lottery at
Mount Washington only brought in half of the allotment, then there
would be changes. I will bet at the high price of $80.00, there will
still be many people with money to spend that will not get in.
Whith me, it had nothing to do with competition or price, it was more
about me conqouring the massive task and for a runner like me it is
was not how fast so much as will I finish. I wish I had done a better
job and ran faster, but honestly I feel that way about most races.
I would almost bet that the super fast elite runners in the high
profile races are not paying the entrance fee and surely are not
hoping to get picked in the lottery. Of course it makes good business
sense as it draws more runners hence more profit and or charity
dollars.
Speaking of charity, if the cause is good and a large percentage of
each dollar helps needy people, then I have no problem paying a higher
price if I can afford it.
All that being said,I do enjoy a high profile race like B to B but my
favorite races are the types that are put on by Trail monsters and the
like.........and lucky for me, they are not out of my price range.
On Feb 16, 8:53 am, Jeff Walker <middle.profes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> totally agree. Last year I didn't bother with the Mount Washington lottery solely because of the fee. Back in the day (way before my day but from what I've read) races where cheap and there were few frills. Just a bunch of fast guys at the start line. To me that's a good model for a great race. But it's not going to make any money for charity or give out finisher's medals. Speaking of, there was lots of discussion about the sacrilege of some guy selling his Boston finisher's medal on e-bay. I thought it was brilliant and would do that with zero guilt. A finisher's medal for an event like Boston is a joke - it's a race that you have to qualify to enter. Selling it on e-bay is a political statement - an act of civil disobedience that reflects my attitude of what I think degrades the event from a race to recreational run. A medal to all qualifiers makes more sense, because you've earned it.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:38 AM, Jamie Anderson wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yeah, but.... there comes a point where the price reaches a threshold that causes some to think "No effin' way". As Ryan pointed out, Mt. W can handle the price increase. Still, if you get enough people thinking "no effin' way", regardless if the race fills up or not, it's still negative publicity...especially in this day and age of social media and nearly instantaneous mass communication. I think to some extent this has tarnished Western States 100 reputation.
>
> > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Jeff Walker <middle.profes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "best event" and "good running event" are going to vary among people and even within a person.
>
> > As I said, I enjoy (find it fun!) getting schooled by fast guys my age because it motivates me to work harder. I enjoy that feeling of competition. I can't get this at many local races or at least with any depth. So I run B2B not for the huge field or the scenery or the food or socializing at the end but for the competition. It is there and it is fierce. Ditto Mt. Washington. Many of the Grand Prix races in Mass are like these and while I've not run any I find them very attractive for the same reason and am trying to pull a group of masters together to go down and toe the line.
>
> > Other people like racing for the beautiful scenery so a good race would have to have that element in abundance. Other people like a particular race because their group of running buddies are there in hordes so the race would have to have that element. Other people like stuff like barbed wire and artificial mudpits. Other people like beer and music at the end. Other people like 100 miles of bushwacking.
>
> > So there isn't any one formula for a "best" event. I have zero interest in an event with an artificial mud pit. I enjoy the trail monster races because I like socializing with my buddies after the race but these are not my favorite events. I'd rather field a team and go compete against other teams than against my friends.
>
> > When I'm racing, I'm very tuned into my body and scenery and friendships don't count for much. Again, to me, the best formula for a great race is whatever it takes to land a competitive field. That said, something like Boston is too big and impersonal. I know or at least know of my competition at B2B and Mount Washington.
>
> > Jeff
>
> > On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Ryan Triffitt wrote:
>
> >> Mt. Washington is more logistically difficult than you might imagine. In many ways it's similar to the Boston Marathon: in Hopkinton, they have to put a lot of people in a very small area. Mt. Washington is the same at both the top and bottom. Making that work is difficult and expensive.
>
> >> I've just about bitten through my tongue on this one, but I will say this: Dave McGillvary didn't demand that the price be $80. It wasn't his company's decision.
>
> >> What we know as runners is that the "best" events aren't the biggest events. It really bums me out that most casual runners only go to the big races. Imagine if B2B was you're only road racing experience. That wouldn't make me want to come back.
>
> > "best event" and "good running event" are going to vary among people and even within a person.
>
> > As I said, I enjoy (find it fun!) getting schooled by fast guys my age because it motivates me to work harder. I enjoy that feeling of competition. I can't get this at many local races or at least with any depth. So I run B2B not for the huge field or the scenery or the food or socializing at the end but for the competition. It is there and it is fierce. Ditto Mt. Washington. Many of the Grand Prix races in Mass are like these and while I've not run any I find them very attractive for the same reason and am trying to pull a group of masters together to go down and toe the line.
>
> > Other people like racing for the beautiful scenery so a good race would have to have that element in abundance. Other people like a particular race because their group of running buddies are there in hordes so the race would have to have that element. Other people like stuff like barbed wire and artificial mudpits. Other people like beer and music at the end. Other people like 100 miles of bushwacking.
>
> > So there isn't any one formula for a "best" event. I have zero interest in an event with an artificial mud pit. I enjoy the trail monster races because I like socializing with my buddies after the race but these are not my favorite events. I'd rather field a team and go compete against other teams than against my friends.
>
> > When I'm racing, I'm very tuned into my body and scenery and friendships don't count for much. Again, to me, the best formula for a great race is whatever it takes to land a competitive field. That said, something like Boston is too big and impersonal. I know or at least know of my competition at B2B and Mount Washington.
>
> > Jeff
>
> > On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Ryan Triffitt wrote:
>
> >> Mt. Washington is more logistically difficult than you might imagine. In many ways it's similar to the Boston Marathon: in Hopkinton, they have to put a lot of people in a very small area. Mt. Washington is the same at both the top and bottom. Making that work is difficult and expensive.
>
> >> I've just about bitten through my tongue on this one, but I will say this: Dave McGillvary didn't demand that the price be $80. It wasn't his company's decision.
>
> >> What we know as runners is that the "best" events aren't the biggest events. It really bums me out that most casual runners only go to the big races. Imagine if B2B was you're only road racing experience. That wouldn't make me want to come back.
>
> >> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Erik Boucher <ebouc...@maine.rr.com> wrote:
> >> I often think about what makes a good running event, and found that the more I think about it the more I don’t know. However one thing I’m pretty sure about is that competitiveness correlates with price. If you want to find the most competitive field just look for the most expensive race. Around here that’s B2B, Mount Washington, Boston Marathon.
>
> >> In the triathlon world Rev3 is coming to Maine this summer. For a mere $275 you can do a half- iron man, or an olympic for $175. The all-women’s SheJams Olympic event will only cost you $175 plus a minimum $100 fundraising. With a $25,000 purse prize the field will be stacked with pros, just like B2B.
>
> >> I often think about what makes a good running event, and found that the more I think about it the more I don’t know. However one thing I’m pretty sure about is that competitiveness correlates with price. If you want to find the most competitive field just look for the most expensive race. Around here that’s B2B, Mount Washington, Boston Marathon.
>
> >> In the triathlon world Rev3 is coming to Maine this summer. For a mere $275 you can do a half- iron man, or an olympic for $175. The all-women’s SheJams Olympic event will only cost you $175 plus a minimum $100 fundraising. With a $25,000 purse prize the field will be stacked with pros, just like B2B.
>
>
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