Self protection/defense when wild camping (or peeing :-)

[Zoltan Szecsei]

Hi Listers,
The lively "roof tent" thread prompted this email from me.

So with all these stories, please think of the discussion points below separately/individually so that we can get a good spread of what people think of as best or useless practice.

• Putting a portable electric fence around your tent or car
• Tazers (how long a pole?)
• Pepper spray - likely not great if you also get some of its blast.....
• Travelling with toddlers - what would you think would be the youngest kid you'd have in your wild-camping party?
• Boat (either Mokoro, houseboat or 'Pangolin' day-trip style) with young kids onboard

Just curious....but hopefully useful experiences or thoughts will come for those planning trips. 

Regards,
Zoltan

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[Brett]

Stay out of unfenced camps if you have to use any of the first three.

The younger the better, children are incredibly quick to pick up on the responsible behaviour and bush knowledge of their parents. It is a lifetime gift. !! An infants cry in the bush automatically alerts predators in the area.

If you are not knowledgeable in the bush rather leave your kids at home until they are in their teens or go on frequent trips with people who are until you are comfortable with your bush craft.

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[Lizette Swart]

Hi Zoltan,

I agree with Brett, rather learn how to act around the wildlife than try and use measures meant to keep criminals at bay.

I've taken a 3 year old on a tour through Central Kalahari, Moremi, Savute and Chobe, with very strict instructions to the parents to keep her close. We had no problems - but they're easy to sneak away when you're not watching. I tapped my finger into the salt on the Makgadikgadi Pans to taste, and she grabbed a handful to do the same! The parents were watching me and I had to rugby-tackle her before she could get it all in her mouth.

The youngest I've had on a tour was 11 months - they're easier to handle as they're almost always on your lap, but the rough roads in Khutse had her crying for most of the time that the vehicle was moving.

Then I had a group with 5 kids ages 7 to 15, in Kruger - I would take the 7 year old (and her parents!) again but the older kids were not interested in safety measures. After being cooped up in the vehicle, they wanted to run around at unfenced picnic sites and viewpoints - hunting lions! And their parents were just too relieved that they were no longer nagging around their ears.. it was a tough tour, I gained some grey hairs....

I would be careful with kids on the mokorro - you're very close to the water and it is too easy to just drag your hand outside the mokorro in the water. 

Regards/Groete

Lizette

Lizette Swart

liz...@tracks4africa.co.za

+27 (0)21 880 8660

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[Theo Dormehl]

Good topic 

I would think no fencing around the camp, just not practical for stop one or two nights travelling 

Tazers yes easy quick cheap solution in the final close attack and the sound would mostlikly scare any animal off and never return again soon 

Pepper spray not when I am in the tent and I also will get a whoof 

Travelling with Kids   I am scared kid could start to panic sleeping in a tent and big cats walk outside this happens almost every night 

Or even during day time kids will panic when a big cat appear suddenly close to the camp, I would not recommend 

Different story in a protected camp 

Boating trips  I cannot comment 

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[Chris Work]

My 2c worth

My wife and I camp alone and as far from humans as it is possible to get. Our “defence” is a battery powered IR Proximity Alarm that has a light as well as a siren, skollies like surprise and animals you just need to be aware of.

Being forewarned is the best defence.

Best

Chris Forsdyke

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[Zoltan Szecsei]

Hi Lizette,
As ever: Thanks for chipping in.

What you say, is absolutely true:  "Hou Kop - it is their territory so learn how to act without interesting them (the animals)."

But I am trying to stimulate a more general discussion as the other stories might just scare a lot of people off from trying to go to these wonderful places (instead of just sticking to the places where you cannot get out of your car).

So while nothing will keep you 100%  free of risk, I was just wondering what others thought of the list I gave below, or if anyone had other practical things they did to try to mitigate risks.

TOTALLY agree with your mokoro comment - I've done a 3 day trip to Chiefs Island before, and with that low (initially) wobbly waterline a toddler might just be too tempting a meal even if fingers weren't being cooled in the water

Chat later,
Zoltan

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[Frank höppener]

Hi.

I still prefer pepperspray. That is, you have  type spray and type jet. I take the jet. I never needed it. 

Covers about 3 meters. Of course you still get a whif but you can target it through a tiny hole of the tent and the spread is minimal. Anyway, choose whatever you like.

Enjoy the buds folks!

Frank

Elke kritiek op de macht is extreem rechts

Op wo 4 jun 2025, 17:54 schreef Theo Dormehl <theod...@gmail.com>:

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[Eben Henning]

We need to understand how things have changed over the years.

Environment has changed.

Animals have changed.

People have changed.

How much more bird/animal life have you seen in the cities in the last 5-10 years?

Certainly in the suburbs we have predator birds and even scavengers in our area. Because we have small herbivores and even buck in our area now.

Animals adapt, they find ways to live with the chaos amongst the noise.

Same with wildlife in the big bush.  They are not the same as 20 years ago when they had never seen a car or a human before and were very weary of them.  When they did encounter them, they quickly realised that that thing kills you.

Now, living with these big round footed things in your backyard every day and learning they don't hurt you... boundaries will be tested, even for wildlife.

Ellies turning over cars and pushing cars around.  Why?  They have learned.  That said, RESPECT THE ELLIE.

Lions, they are cats, curious things. Over the years they have learned there is no danger from these walking sticks anymore.

Look at the Hyenas in the bigger reserves.  They steal the wors from the braai when I just turned around!  Ratels running into your kitchen opening cupboards and will come at you when you try to chase them.  Vervet's, Babo's they test and learn.  That said, RESPECT THE MENEER BABO.

They learn from the wokeness.  Nature does not know wokeness, only fear.

I paint my picture too big, perhaps, but don't expect things to be the same as 20y ago.

I have been doing this for 30 years and have noticed this change in wildlife behaviour over the years.

I blame the 17 'Safari vehicles' overloaded with ignorant camera clicking food, hooting at each other around a lion kill for this, just my angle.

Pepper spray don't always work on all animals.

Tazers, yes, but you need a cattle size tazer, on a steeek.  Works on 'all types' of wildlife and has an instant effect.

Motion detectors and lights on the roof rack, unless you are camping in a packed campsite :-). Be kind, turn them off.

It will deter the unwanted and will wake you and your steeek up so you can enjoy the visiting night life as they pass through.

(read into this what you want)

Toddlers in an unfenced camp in predator country, roll your dice and place your bets.  Your choice.

Have you seen your dog's attitude change when small kids arrive in your yard when they are not used to that?

In nature it's about size and nature can smell fear.

BUT

The bigger challenge we have is     African Cancer.    Poverty.

This is the killer for our wanderlust and love for the bush.

EbenH.

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[Frank höppener]

Eben, I think you describe reality. Well said.

Frank

Elke kritiek op de macht is extreem rechts

Op do 5 jun 2025, 09:02 schreef Eben Henning <cust...@gmail.com>:

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[Reino van Aswegen]

Hi Eben

Great read, thank you.

However I have one question, I have cattle and make use of a "prodder" (Cattle tazer) quite regularly.

How would a prodder assist when an unwanted animal comes too close to your tent? Do you use it through the canvas? 

I am not a scared person, but I don't think I will use a 80cm prodder to chase away or scare away a lion. I think in most cases it would just aggravate the animal further.

To me, it is important to be able to read an animal's body language. Unfortunately this is almost impossible at night when you are half asleep in your tent.

I have seen some people using "windbreak screens" around their tents as an extra layer of protection before. - maybe this could help.

Kind regards,

Reino

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[Eben Henning]

Hi Reino,

You have limited choices when out in the bush, especially not in your own country.

So, the prod to me is more of a 'weapon' than the spray.  The cattle style is heavy and can take a few swings at something.

The panga (machete) is also useful, not just for clearing brush.  A wrist strap is a must, for both. Not nice being unhappy by your own tools.

Don't always want to chase things away, just want to make sure you don't lose pieces.

Through the tent is an option, but while it is on that side, still ok.

The screen just takes away your ability to survey the area.

Awareness and some common sense is always No 1.

EbenH

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[em...@ewessels.com]

Hi

 

Against the background that Zoltan provided, I’ll venture one or two comments.

 

Personally, we do not use any of those measures to protect us against wild animals.

 

Regarding portable electric fences I have some experience how domestic animals like horses react to them, and based on that I would not recommend it in a wildlife environment. We use a portable electric fence to contain our horses when we go camping with them (obviously in areas where encounters with potentially dangerous game is unlikely). Horses have to be “trained” in the use of an electric fence. A horse encountering an electric fence for the first time is as likely to stampede forward through the fence (setting off other horses in the process) as it is to pivot and flee away. The reaction of a large/heavy wild animal and other herd animals is in my view unpredictable and a stampede or forward rush by (say) buffalo or elephant can create a very dangerous situation. There is also the philosophical question of why one would want to turn an unfenced campsite into a fenced one? Much of the attraction is too cause as little disturbance as possible and see wildlife wandering through your campsite. If people feel uncomfortable in an unfenced campsite the solution may be as simple as rather opting for a fenced one.

 

We have carried bear spray while hiking in Alaska. Bear spray is basically pepper spray, just in a larger quantity almost like a small fire extinguisher. It is said to work well on bears (we didn’t have to use it). The technique with bear spray is to create a barrier cloud and it certainly projects the spray unbelievably far. Normal pepper spray will only be effective at closer range, but is an option. Although I think you are likely to not have it on hand when you need it, as the time you need it most likely will be a surprise.

 

As others have mentioned staying aware of your surroundings is key. When we leave our rooftop tent at night we scan with a spotlight from the tent, then one person gets out and scans any blind spots, then the other person gets out, we do what we need to as close as possible to the vehicle keeping our backs to it as far as possible, then on the way into the tent one person gets in while the other continues to scan, then hands the spotlight to the person already in the tent who continues to scan while the other one climbs up the ladder. This may sound excessively cautious, but just last month at Bosobogolo we observed a yound leopard walking into camp just as we were getting back into the tent. Once back in the tent I was able to shoot some nice footage for my next Youtube video!

 

Regards

 

Emile

 

From: tracks...@googlegroups.com <tracks...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Zoltan Szecsei
Sent: Wednesday, 4 June 2025 18:42
To: tracks...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [T4A] Self protection/defense when wild camping (or peeing :-)

 

Hi Lizette,

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[Jerome Puzin]

It seems to me that predators don't attack closed tents... In Nxai pan, I saw my light dome tent on the ground, bend under the weight of an animal, without any noise... I shouted once, the tent continued to bend, a second time, dead calm, nothing... the next day, when I woke up, there were plenty of lion tracks, a whole pride of around ten individuals. Don't leave the tent at night or if you're under heavy guard, remember you're not at home.

Regards,

Jerome

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tracks4africa/017d01dbd61e%24a69eceb0%24f3dc6c10%24%40ewessels.com

.

[Mike Slater]

Over the past 40 years of camping in the wild, my flimsy nylon hiking tent has kept out lions, hyenas, leopard etc (but not baboons and monkeys).  The next time I may not be so lucky.  While closed tents do usually detour predator attacks, not always.  The same lioness that killed Bernd Kebbel recently while wild camping in the Hoanib valley, Kaokoland, Nambia, a day later ripped open a closed canvas trailer tent, presumably to get at the occupants - who somehow survived with minor injuries.  

No certainties in the bush, nor anywhere else.

"Kupotea njia ndio kujua njia".  Swahili proverb.

Best wishes
 
Mike Slater

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[Joe Louw]

I was under the impression that ‘wild camping’ are the term used for when you camp (sleep/set-up a mini one night camp) in a NON designated camp site and then the term ‘camping' are when you camp in a designated camp area.

I know indeed that taking the risk of ‘wild camping’ (my understating of wild camping) in Botswana are a big risk, not a risk as per for the animals risks, but the risk for the anti-poachers or authorities getting hold of you.

Anyway maybe I undstood wlid camping wrong.

J

[Frank höppener]

Joe, I thinkbyour description comes pretty close to reality 😉

Lekker pad!

Frank

Elke kritiek op de macht is extreem rechts

Op vr 6 jun 2025, 21:20 schreef Joe Louw <j...@joelouw.com>:

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[Mike Slater]

Yep that's wild camping.  Often where noone has (probably) camped before.  Not in game reserves, National parks or private reserves, but on the edges or simply along the road or down a track somewhere.

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[Marc Hall]

Exactly that Joe. 

Marc 

On 06 Jun 2025, at 9:20 PM, Joe Louw <j...@joelouw.com> wrote:

I was under the impression that ‘wild camping’ are the term used for when you camp (sleep/set-up a mini one night camp) in a NON designated camp site and then the term ‘camping' are when you camp in a designated camp area.

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[Brett]

You are 100% correct Joe!

The bastardization of terminology is a real problem .. I suppose it is done to create a sense of doing something extreme. The risk of getting caught by the authorities or the local community is very real. If you do not have the necessary permissions from either party you will suffer the consequences. Southern Angola is basically the only country where proper wild camping is accepted provided that where possible to ask the permission of the village headman .. and compensate them with something. 

The other term is "overlanding" which has now become the "new" description of the good old road trip.

Cheers, Brett 

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[Ha In]

Regarding wild camping: I have serious doubts that the "overlanding community" will ever learn to be respectful of authorities, let alone local people. Just look up iOverlander, they even camp next to community campsites. This app is a real pest.

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[Rico Terblanche]

All I want to say is don't let one bad experience ruined your desire to enjoy the road and nature.

Menu more people die on the roads and cities. Just be careful when  you tred into the terotory of the wild..

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[Brett]

Agreed Ha,  iOverlander is a disgrace to say the least .. much like the harm to conservation areas that Instagram is responsible for.

On Sat, 07 Jun 2025, 11:31 Ha In, <auktionn...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Peter Wood]

Hi everyone -

Thanks again for all the answers I got to my rooftop tent question. 

Also following this thread, I’d like to say that my reference to “wild camping” in my roof top tent question was about camping in Botswana’s unfenced campsites known for big game wandering in, not camping in undesignated camping areas. All of our camping has been booked and paid for in official campsites. 

I’ll use the term more carefully in future!

Peter

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Peter Wood
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[Frank höppener]

Hi Peter,

Don't worry!  Terminology is sorted out in a time frame of decades 😉.

The concept of Wild camping is not yet included in the Oxford Concise Dictionary.

Cheerio, lekker pad,

Frank

Elke kritiek op de macht is extreem rechts

Op zo 8 jun 2025, 14:42 schreef Peter Wood <ett...@gmail.com>:

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[M C]

Please try complaining by registering on the free version and then reporting the misuse. I have found the admin people on ioverlander responsive.  The app is very useful for the kind of  overland travel where you don't make bookings , for cross border information and for reporting over charging . Please don't throw out the app before trying to get rid of the abusers. I used it for 6 months , it was unbelievably helpful.  It's always the case that a few misbehavers make a mess for everyone else.

On Sat, 07 Jun 2025, 11:31 Ha In, <auktionn...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[M C]

the app is exceptionally good , please report abuse and try to improve it . Can you post examples ? , I actually found very little trouble in 6 months constant use.

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[Ha In]

This app is full of wild camping entries, it's not possible to not see what the problem is.

Just two examples:

1. Just North of the community campsite in Purros, two wild camping spots

2. Several spots in Epupa falls, and along the road to Ruacana.

And read some of the comments:

"No beggars"!

"wood for bonfire"!

There is absolutely no need to camp "wild" in these areas.

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[Margot Donaldson]

I use iOverlander and I must say I find it to be a useful app. Especially if I can’t find any camping on my T4A guide. I personally prefer to pay for camping and I only wild camp if I am stuck.

I use this example when crossing the N222 in Moz - we had to stop as it was dark and we found a disused charcoal field and camped the night here. 

Margot

Maabwe Bay Camp 

Lake Kariba 

Phone no/Wattsapp 00263776977446

Or Netone line usually better 00263719478520

Email marg...@icloud.com

FB: Maabwe Bay

https://Tracks4Africa.co.za/listings/item/w255166/maabwe-bay-campsite/.

On 09 Jun 2025, at 10:01, Ha In <auktionn...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[M C]

People were camping there decides before the app came along and will continue to do so . it's one of the joys of being in the wilderness . The volumes of people being in one place will likely go up be cause of the app , and that is a downside of they litter . But I haven't found that yet . If you have a specific complaint I encourage you to report it . To throw out the while app because of one side effect does not make sense to me . 

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[M C]

On the epupa ruacana ones the community will often benefit  as it is quite populated.  You will get approached for example at enyandi and asked for camping fees . finding an isolated spot is less likely.

On the Puros ones I saw the one entry saying plenty of firewood . I would think a comment here to say please don't pick up firewood if it isn't plentiful.  In desert areas firewood is sometimes the only home for insects and is part of the fragile food chain. By commenting you add your voice , whether people listen or not is up to them unfortunately.  

On the second spot is an entry about flies and mosquitoes. My last stay in a puros camp was beset with flies and mosquitoes. There was also noise from the village which was a bit unpleasant . I won't stay there again. This was march this year.

We will never stop the number of visitors increasing nor will we control where they camp. It's an unpleasant side effect of 'progress'. 

But the app though not ideal does leave room for comment and reporting. I wouldn't throw it out 

On Mon, 09 Jun 2025, 10:00 Ha In, <auktionn...@gmail.com> wrote:

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