Tour de ColdFusion Beta Released

[James Brown]

We are proud to announce the Tour de ColdFusion Beta was released
today. You can download it here:

http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion/

We are still accepting samples for anybody would like to participate.
Thanks.

[jason olmsted]

The url should be: http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion  (the trailing slash is a problem)

[John Mason]

That doesn't work for me either. Why aren't you using the "go" system within the adobe.com site?

John

[Brian Meloche]

The URL was still wrong in Jason's email, but I figured it out...

http://tourdecf.adobe.com/

[Greg Wilson]

...because that would add another day's delay...and we wanted bit.ly's tracking.

http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion works, right?

[jason olmsted]

The correct url is http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion  (I copied the old url and only modified the anchor text and not the underlying link)

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, jason olmsted <olm...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Brian Meloche]

It does, but that's actually more characters than the REAL URL:

http://tourdecf.adobe.com - 18 characters
http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion - 23 characters

Sincerely,

Brian Meloche,
brianmeloche at gmail dot com
Podcast: cfconversations.com
Blog: brianmeloche.com
Twitter: @coofuushun
Adobe Community Professional &
Manager, Cleveland CFUG, clevelandcfug.com
Creator, LightFront: http://lightfront.riaforge.org

[Brian Meloche]

Is there any way to file bugs or enhancements? Looking at the beta, I see things jumping out at me right away... like:

1. Where are the script-based equivalents for tags? I don't even see that mentioned anywhere.
2. Why are you still using the CF8 icons?
3. You've got the air client by default opening up to web pages, such as Ben Forta's article, that will not fit in the window. The default application size should probably be big enough to view those pages without having to maximize/resize.
   

Those are three quickies.

Sincerely,

Brian Meloche,
brianmeloche at gmail dot com
Podcast: cfconversations.com
Blog: brianmeloche.com
Twitter: @coofuushun
Adobe Community Professional &
Manager, Cleveland CFUG, clevelandcfug.com
Creator, LightFront: http://lightfront.riaforge.org

[John Mason]

I'll go ahead and say how very disappointed I am with the results of the app. After many months of no communication from Adobe with the community to build it, they basically came out with a AIR based cfdoc app?

I don't know if this can be fixed at this point, but hope that someone at Adobe will rethink what is happening here. The Tour de Flex was a great idea and really showed off the cool features of Flex. The Tour de ColdFusion should be doing the same.

John Mason

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Brian Meloche <brianm...@gmail.com> wrote:

[James Brown]

Brian,

Please use bu...@tourdecoldfusion.com to submit any bugs you find. We
do have tag and script examples for a large number of the samples but
if some are missing, feel free to email them over and we'll add them.
We're going to be continually adding samples as they come in, so we
can fix any bugs you might find at the same time.



--
James

On Jun 24, 5:16 pm, Brian Meloche <brianmelo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there any way to file bugs or enhancements? Looking at the beta, I see
> things jumping out at me right away... like:
>

>    1. Where are the script-based equivalents for tags? I don't even see that
>    mentioned anywhere.
>    2. Why are you still using the CF8 icons?
>    3. You've got the air client by default opening up to web pages, such as

>    Ben Forta's article, that will not fit in the window. The default
>    application size should probably be big enough to view those pages without
>    having to maximize/resize.
>
> Those are three quickies.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Brian Meloche,
> brianmeloche at gmail dot com
> Podcast: cfconversations.com
> Blog: brianmeloche.com
> Twitter: @coofuushun
> Adobe Community Professional &
> Manager, Cleveland CFUG, clevelandcfug.com
> Creator, LightFront:http://lightfront.riaforge.org
>

> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Brian Meloche <brianmelo...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> > It does, but that's actually more characters than the REAL URL:
>
> >http://tourdecf.adobe.com- 18 characters

> >http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion- 23 characters

>
> > Sincerely,
>
> > Brian Meloche,
> > brianmeloche at gmail dot com
> > Podcast: cfconversations.com
> > Blog: brianmeloche.com
> > Twitter: @coofuushun
> > Adobe Community Professional &
> > Manager, Cleveland CFUG, clevelandcfug.com
> > Creator, LightFront:http://lightfront.riaforge.org
>

> > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Greg Wilson <greg.wil...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
> >> ...because that would add another day's delay...and we wanted bit.ly's
> >> tracking.

> >>http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusionworks, right?

> >> On Jun 24, 2010, at 4:58 PM, John Mason wrote:
>
> >> That doesn't work for me either. Why aren't you using the "go" system
> within
> >> the adobe.com site?
>
> >> John
>
> >> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, jason olmsted <olm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> The url should be:http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion (the trailing slash
> is
> >>> a problem)
>

> >>> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:45 PM, James Brown <gulftobayt...@gmail.com>

[Greg Wilson]

John - it's "beta" so we're still adding samples, enhancing, etc.
How would you make the samples look better? Tour de Flex is showing
Flex which has some very visual elements. It's a bit tough with
ColdFusion for many of the tags/functions (how do you make cfif
sexy?), but we're hoping that you guys can provide some good
suggestions.

The real opportunity is in adding new categories that illustrate the
real strengths of ColdFusion. I'd rather focus on getting you and
other community members submitting real-world samples that show off
the technology rather than making it a better reference tool.
Hopefully you agree that most of the tag/function samples are adequate
to show how to use the particular tag/function?

In my blog post on the subject, I asked for additional samples,
techniques, frameworks, etc.

Let see some input - I have a dedicated resource ready to install it.
We can add new samples and push it out in seconds.

Thanks!

Greg Wilson
http://gregsramblings.com

On Jun 24, 5:19 pm, John Mason <mason1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll go ahead and say how very disappointed I am with the results of the
> app. After many months of no communication from Adobe with the community to
> build it, they basically came out with a AIR based cfdoc app?
>
> I don't know if this can be fixed at this point, but hope that someone at
> Adobe will rethink what is happening here. The Tour de Flex was a great idea
> and really showed off the cool features of Flex. The Tour de ColdFusion
> should be doing the same.
>
> John Mason
>

> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Brian Meloche <brianmelo...@gmail.com>wrote:> It does, but that's actually more characters than the REAL URL:
>
> >http://tourdecf.adobe.com- 18 characters

> >http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion- 23 characters

>
> > Sincerely,
>
> > Brian Meloche,
> > brianmeloche at gmail dot com
> > Podcast: cfconversations.com
> > Blog: brianmeloche.com
> > Twitter: @coofuushun
> > Adobe Community Professional &
> > Manager, Cleveland CFUG, clevelandcfug.com
> > Creator, LightFront:http://lightfront.riaforge.org
>

> > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Greg Wilson <greg.wil...@gmail.com>

> > wrote:
> > > ...because that would add another day's delay...and we wanted bit.ly's
> > > tracking.

> > >http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusionworks, right?

> > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 4:58 PM, John Mason wrote:
>
> > > That doesn't work for me either. Why aren't you using the "go" system
> > within
> > > the adobe.com site?
>
> > > John
>
> > > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, jason olmsted <olm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> The url should be:http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion (the trailing slash
> > is
> > >> a problem)
>

> > >> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:45 PM, James Brown <gulftobayt...@gmail.com>

[Brian Meloche]

No bug tracker? Email? Seriously?

I don't want to be harshly negative, but this is 2010. That's awfully inefficient, both for you and all of the people using the client. You don't want to be getting the emails all the time reporting the same set of issues over and over again.

If you can't provide yourselves with a bug tracker, please let me know and I would be happy to provide you with one.

Sincerely,

Brian Meloche,
brianmeloche at gmail dot com
Podcast: cfconversations.com
Blog: brianmeloche.com
Twitter: @coofuushun
Adobe Community Professional &
Manager, Cleveland CFUG, clevelandcfug.com
Creator, LightFront: http://lightfront.riaforge.org

[Greg Wilson]

Bug tracking is coming in the next day or two - was delays in setting
it up where I wanted it and we didn't want to stall any longer.

Greg

> > > >http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion-23 characters

>
> > > > Sincerely,
>
> > > > Brian Meloche,
> > > > brianmeloche at gmail dot com
> > > > Podcast: cfconversations.com
> > > > Blog: brianmeloche.com
> > > > Twitter: @coofuushun
> > > > Adobe Community Professional &
> > > > Manager, Cleveland CFUG, clevelandcfug.com
> > > > Creator, LightFront:http://lightfront.riaforge.org
>
> > > > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Greg Wilson <greg.wil...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > ...because that would add another day's delay...and we wanted bit.ly
> > 's
> > > > > tracking.
> > > > >http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusionworks, right?
> > > > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 4:58 PM, John Mason wrote:
>
> > > > > That doesn't work for me either. Why aren't you using the "go" system
> > > > within
> > > > > the adobe.com site?
>
> > > > > John
>
> > > > > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:47 PM, jason olmsted <olm...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>

> > > > >> The url should be:http://bit.ly/tourdecoldfusion(the trailing

[Roger Austin (@RogerTheGeek)]

I agree with Brian's three suggestions, especially the one on the
script equivalents.
I have not seen definitive reference document on cfscript.
There are so many great blogs by ColdFusion developers on the web. I
wonder about how the application adds significantly to the blogsphere.
Is there an overall mission for the application?

[John Mason]

I wouldn't have released it to the general public in its current form. The part of Tour de Flex that really does the job is the showcase aspect of the things you can do with the technology - not the language dictionary. The current app does none of that. I actually think Ray's CF9 code contest last year did a far better job promoting the new features in CF9. Perhaps we can gets those examples in there fairly soon?

I think part of the confusion is for who this app is for. It's not really for the coder/deverloper as much as for the technology manager and decision maker. I would love to send decision makers to an app that really "sells" the benefits of the technology. The current app simply doesn't do that.

It's annoying that the long wait and the complete lack of communication resulted in this. Perhaps we as a community can start adding things in to fix this mess, but it would have been better if hadn't worked out in this way. ColdFusion gets enough grief, we really can't afford silly missteps like this.

John Mason



 

[Oğuz Demirkapı]

Agreed with John %100.

The first impression is -was- important and it is good to hit gold whenever possible.

This is not only a tech tool that we provide for developers, this is also a really important marketing tool and Adobe should take this opportunity serious - if somebody cares -.

JM2C.


Sincerely,

Oğuz Demirkapı

[Greg Wilson]

John / Oğuz - I agree with you both - it's very important that we get
it right....which is WHY we have released it as a BETA so we can get
more samples and suggestions for improvements.

So.... John / Oğuz... send us some good constructive ideas on what we
can do to really show off CF. The reference part is done from a tags
perspective. We are working on the script equivalents now. Neither
of those will address the important points that you bring up (first
impression, etc.)

How do we impress a web developer with CF through this tool?

Ideally, TDCF becomes a great repository for hundreds of CF
capabilities, techniques, etc.

Guys - I appreciate the complaints - I've struggled with how we make
this thing sexier from day one because at the end of the day, there
are tons of cool things in CF that are just not visual. I've played
around with different stylings, I've had Ray and others jump in and
help on samples, so we do care. We went out to over 80 CF developers
are asked for contributions but everyone is busy...so... the response
was a bit disappointing.

Send me some real ideas! :-)

Greg

[John Mason]

You asked over 80 developers but nothing on this list (for months)? The list which had developers interested in the project?

The CF9 contest examples from last year would be a good start. I'll certainly work on some examples and pass the word on to our user group. Perhaps we can do another coding contest? Top 3 winners get cf license or something? Everyone is busy these days, that never changes. There are several ways to create interest and get the submissions.

John Mason

[Oğuz Demirkapı]

Why don't we use a proper tool to collect possible ideas with some voting features such as http://uservoice.com ? 
- May be this should have been done in the first step. -

I do not have any doubt about positive attitudes on the approach but somehow it looks like it is not well organized/structured.

I also agree with an open bug tracking system and better collaboration among other developers in the community with possible other tools.

I also will post some code samples, if there is a proper tool to do this.

Thanks again for the hard work that you provided and it is really appreciated.


Sincerely,

Oğuz Demirkapı

[Greg Wilson]

Agreed - I just changed the website to point to this google group for
bugs until we can get something nicer arranged.

What about the organization don't you like (other than adding script
equivs)? Suggestions?

Thanks!

Greg

[Brian Rinaldi]

I have lots of material related to frameworks and other open source projects sitting around on my blog. What I need to do is make sure it is updated for the most recent version of the framework and I'd be happy to post them as examples.

On another note, I don't think that the link to just the RIAForge page (as in cftwitterlib) doesn't add a lot of value. Perhaps if it showed an example of cftwitterlib and then another tab or something with the riaforge page. Otherwise I think we'll just end up with a bunch of riaforge pages inside an AIR app which doesn't seem very useful.

Anyway, those are just some quick initial thoughts. I will put it through the paces over the next few days.

Brian Rinaldi
blog - http://remotesynthesis.com
Twitter - http://twitter.com/remotesynth
RIA Unleashed : Boston - http://riaunleashed.com
Boston CFUG - http://bostoncfug.org
Adobe Community Professional - http://groups.adobe.com/people/06408603a0

[Greg Wilson]

Brian - this sounds good - thanks! I agree with you on the RIAForge
link. I would like to show how to access popular cloud APIs such as
twitter, etc., but maybe in this case, we just leave it out.

:)

Greg

On Jun 24, 7:05 pm, Brian Rinaldi <brian.rina...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of material related to frameworks and other open source projects
> sitting around on my blog. What I need to do is make sure it is updated for
> the most recent version of the framework and I'd be happy to post them as
> examples.
>
> On another note, I don't think that the link to just the RIAForge page (as
> in cftwitterlib) doesn't add a lot of value. Perhaps if it showed an example
> of cftwitterlib and then another tab or something with the riaforge page.
> Otherwise I think we'll just end up with a bunch of riaforge pages inside an
> AIR app which doesn't seem very useful.
>
> Anyway, those are just some quick initial thoughts. I will put it through
> the paces over the next few days.
>
> Brian Rinaldi
> blog -http://remotesynthesis.com
> Twitter -http://twitter.com/remotesynth
> RIA Unleashed : Boston -http://riaunleashed.com
> Boston CFUG -http://bostoncfug.org

> Adobe Community Professional -http://groups.adobe.com/people/06408603a0

[Paul Hastings]

i'd hang onto this until you have something more than a "swanky" set of cfdocs.
one way cf differs from flex/AIR is that we've had cflib, etc. for ages, so the
bar is set kind of high.

besides brian's issues, here are a couple of minor nitpicks:
- cacheSetProperties is still in the i18n category (informed you guys when you
1st announced), it's not in the cfdocs under i18n if you needed more "proof".

- installation was a bit flaky, didn't recognize 10.1 as an "ok" flash version,
ditto for AIR, took 5-6 tries to get it installed.

[Greg Wilson]

I assume the install issue was a flash version error on the install
badge? Do you remember what the error was? I've tested on a bunch of
machines with 10.1 and it's working for me.

We'll take care of cacheSetProperties.

James Brown just added two simple twitter samples to the app. If you
run yours, it will update automatically. We plan to push out new
samples daily next week. I will be much more than a cfdoc reference
soon. We had to get it out so we could hopefully inspire people to
start contributing.

Tour de Flex started slow because it was only basic samples during the
beta, but once we added 3rd party samples and coding techniques it
exploded. It is now getting over 1 million sample views per month
and still growing.

I'm working on some good Flex+CF samples, code to demonstrate how to
use CF's pre-installed BlazeDS to publish messages to waiting clients
and many others.

Send me some stuff! :)

We'll have a full forum and a submission process shortly.

Greg

[Paul Hastings]

On 6/26/2010 3:49 AM, Greg Wilson wrote:
> I assume the install issue was a flash version error on the install
> badge? Do you remember what the error was? I've tested on a bunch of
> machines with 10.1 and it's working for me.

it gave me that blurb about wrong flash version for the first couple of tries.
ditto for AIR. i don't recall the last couple.

> Send me some stuff! :)

to your email address? are there any guidelines?