App.net : "Changes to these Terms"

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Hugo Roy

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Oct 10, 2012, 11:55:16 AM10/10/12
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App.net - Terms of Service http://alpha.app.net/legal/terms
Last Updated: September 19, 2012
Changes to these Terms

We reserve the right to modify these Terms at any time. For instance, we may need to change these Terms if we come out with a new feature or for some other reason.

Whenever we make changes to these Terms, the changes are effective 5 days after we post such revised Terms to our website (indicated by revising the date at the top of these Terms), or when we notify you of the changes by e-mail or other means, or upon your acceptance if we provide a mechanism for your immediate acceptance of the revised Terms (such as a click-through confirmation or acceptance button). It is your responsibility to check the website regularly for changes to these Terms.
(this part not really important IMHO)

If you continue to use the Service after the revised Terms go into effect, then you have accepted the changes to these Terms.
(the contrary would be surprising...)

So, The terms can change at any time and sometimes without notification.

Changes to the terms are considered accepted and effective either 5 days after they are published on the website, or when they notify you, or when you accept them.

It's very large, not really giving any security regarding the changes. So I would rate it as bad. I'm also posting an issue on their website at https://github.com/appdotnet/terms-of-service/issues

Best,
Hugo
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Hugo Roy 
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Michiel de Jong

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Oct 10, 2012, 12:49:04 PM10/10/12
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You're parsing the phrase in a different way to how i parsed it originally when i created this point. I thought what it means was:

effective:
* 5 days after:
    * we post such revised Terms to our website (indicated by revising the date at the top of these Terms), 
    or:
    * when we notify you of the changes by e-mail or other means,
or:
* upon your acceptance if we provide a mechanism for your immediate acceptance of the revised Terms

and that is how i reviewed it in the original thread before you closed that and started this new one. But now that i re-read it, i must say it's not entirely clear because of how they put the word 'when' in there. it would create the construction 'after when we notify you', which sounds strange. So maybe you're right, i don't know. let's see what they respond to your ticket.

On a separate note, looking through their repo, it looks to me like the text did not change since the 5 days thing was introduced, which was here:

https://github.com/appdotnet/terms-of-service/commit/6f57c31d10c3e955e5add5e9310af22e37fbbebb#L3L13

but you're right that this case highlights need for exactly quoting the original text. Let's start putting the output of tosback2 into co-ment, and then we can start doing that a bit more consistently.

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Hugo Roy

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Oct 10, 2012, 1:19:24 PM10/10/12
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Le mercredi 10 octobre 2012 à 18:49 +0200, Michiel de Jong a écrit :
> You're parsing the phrase in a different way to how i parsed it originally
> when i created this point. I thought what it means was:
>
> effective:
> * 5 days after:
> * we post such revised Terms to our website (indicated by revising the
> date at the top of these Terms),
> or:
> * when we notify you of the changes by e-mail or other means,
> or:
> * upon your acceptance if we provide a mechanism for your immediate
> acceptance of the revised Terms

"or" expresses quite clearly that each of them are alternative
conditions and that's also emphasized by the commas. Try to replace
"upon your acceptance" by "when you accept" (which is how I summarized
it in the point) and you will see that it's:

effective:
* when we post the terms to our website (this "when" is actually
date+5 days)
* or, when we notify you
* or, when you accept them by our "mechanism"

This would be a construction that makes sense in a contract (3
alternative conditions) whereas your construction would be a bit weird
in a contract, and would be expressed in a different manner.

> and that is how i reviewed it in the original thread before you closed that
> and started this new one.

Ha ok. Anyway I think it's good to start a new thread to discuss this
entirely new point (compared to the very first version submitted here).

> But now that i re-read it, i must say it's not entirely clear because
> of how they put the word 'when' in there. it would create the
> construction 'after when we notify you', which sounds strange. So maybe
> you're right, i don't know. let's see what they respond to your ticket.

The important is not really "when" but "or."

I hope it clarifies it.
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