[Bad] you agree not to reverse-engineer mint.com's software

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anyt...@michielbdejong.com

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Mar 5, 2013, 6:44:10 AM3/5/13
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"You agree that you will not [...] Attempt to decipher, decompile,
disassemble, or reverse-engineer any of the software comprising or in
any way making up a part of Mint.com or the Service."
https://github.com/tosdr/tosback2/blob/265e49bf24a91076495ce1fddf279c4638421a66/crawl/mint.com/Terms%20of%20Use.txt#L132

it's fair enough that you may not crawl their site in an automated way,
but as i said in the Amazon data point about the same topic, just trying
to reverse-engineer the products you consume should not be considered a
crime.

Tobi Lehman

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Mar 7, 2013, 9:50:34 AM3/7/13
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I agree, reverse-engineering typically leads to a different implementation that has the same outward behavior. Also, how detailed is this condition?

If I create a program that categorizes transactions in a way that resembles mint.com's scheme, is that illegal?

Michiel B. de Jong

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Mar 8, 2013, 12:28:55 AM3/8/13
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i guess it's a way to try to stop you from copying their intellectual
property.

I just watched 'The Social Network' again yesterday, which has an
interesting case of this with the Winklevii. I love the phrase in there
"If Facebook was your invention, then you would have built Facebook". :)

Hugo, what is your stance on reverse-engineering by itself? (so
strictly looking at how something works, without necessarily publishing
a competing product based on what you learned from it).

On 2013-03-07 23:20, Tobi Lehman wrote:
> I agree, reverse-engineering typically leads to a different
> implementation that has the same outward behavior. Also, how detailed
> is this condition?
>
> If I create a program that categorizes transactions in a way that
> resembles mint.com's scheme, is that illegal?
>
> On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:44:10 AM UTC-8,
> anyt...@michielbdejong.com
> wrote:
>
>> "You agree that you will not [...] Attempt to decipher, decompile,
>> disassemble, or reverse-engineer any of the software comprising or
>> in
>> any way making up a part of Mint.com or the Service."
>>
>
> https://github.com/tosdr/tosback2/blob/265e49bf24a91076495ce1fddf279c4638421a66/crawl/mint.com/Terms%20of%20Use.txt#L132
>> [1]
>>
>> it's fair enough that you may not crawl their site in an automated
>> way,
>> but as i said in the Amazon data point about the same topic, just
>> trying
>> to reverse-engineer the products you consume should not be
>> considered a
>> crime.
>
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> [1]
>
> https://github.com/tosdr/tosback2/blob/265e49bf24a91076495ce1fddf279c4638421a66/crawl/mint.com/Terms%20of%20Use.txt#L132
> [2] http://groups.google.com/group/tosdr?hl=en
> [3] https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out

Hugo Roy

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Jun 25, 2013, 7:08:34 AM6/25/13
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+ 2013-03-08 Fri 06:28, Michiel B. de Jong <anyt...@michielbdejong.com>:

> i guess it's a way to try to stop you from copying their
> intellectual property.
>
> I just watched 'The Social Network' again yesterday, which has an
> interesting case of this with the Winklevii. I love the phrase in
> there "If Facebook was your invention, then you would have built
> Facebook". :)
>
> Hugo, what is your stance on reverse-engineering by itself? (so
> strictly looking at how something works, without necessarily
> publishing a competing product based on what you learned from it).

Considering that most of it is not published as free software, I
suppose it's expected to have this kind of clauses. On the other
hand, there are many countries, including the US, where the law
would still protect you against this kind of clauses.

So in the end:

- services which are not free software are already kind of
downgraded when we will have a free-software-filter
- these kind of clauses don't hold much water anyway
- most people wouldn't care about them

So I'm in favour of mostly ignoring these clauses, unless they're
really relevant to the service.

--
Hugo Roy, Project Lead
Terms of Service; Didn't Read | www.tosdr.org
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Tobi Lehman

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Jun 25, 2013, 9:18:21 AM6/25/13
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That is especially bad mint heavily used screen scraping

Hugo Roy

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Jun 26, 2013, 4:53:47 AM6/26/13
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+ 2013-06-25 Tue 15:18, Tobi Lehman <tobi....@gmail.com>:

> That is especially bad mint heavily used screen scraping

Hi Tobi,

I don't understand what you mean here.

Best,
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Tobi Lehman

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Jun 26, 2013, 2:56:23 PM6/26/13
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What I mean is that Mint.com itself uses screen-scraping, which is a form of reverse engineering.

Tobi Lehman

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Jun 26, 2013, 2:56:28 PM6/26/13
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What I mean is that Mint.com itself uses screen-scraping, which is a form of reverse engineering.

On Wednesday, June 26, 2013 1:53:47 AM UTC-7, Hugo Roy wrote:
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