Re: New Immortal Performance releases

[John Krol]

The BBC concert is indeed 1938; my error, sorry!

 

The 1935 NYPO concert is a "world premiere release" of a private off-the-air recording with the cooperation of the Toscanini estate.  Also performed at the concert were the Meistersinger Act I Prelude and the Parsifal Good Friday music, which were not recorded or have been lost. 

[chez_toscanini]

I have found that the mistake is also in this issue by a not well identified label: https://www.qobuz.com/it-it/album/arturo-toscanini-conducts-sibelius-arturo-toscanini-bbc-symphony-orchestra/i8xpqx9kp42gb

Ciao

Ezio

[chez_toscanini]

Well today the new Caniell's production has arrived, and actually I am listening to the first couple of CDs, the 1935 NYPhyl concert and the 1938 BBC concert. About the All Wagner concert, 1935, I am positively surprised for the quality of the recording, but more from Toscanini's approach, which has quite nothing to do with the post War II, more flexibility, in some cases slower tempos, different dramatic tense (Parsifal prelude is more than 15 minutes). From the sonic rendering of the recording it is quite uniformly coherent and good, apparently there are no patches. About the BBC concert, some correction appears in the final movement of Brahms 2nd symphony, acknowledgeable by a smarter sound of the patches, but with better results than in a previous issue.

The other 3 CDs include the November 10, 1951 concert, many rehearsals (one of the CD is devoted to rehearsal), I have yet to listen to them. One note about the 3rd cd: it includes the rehearsal and performance of the 1946 Flying Dutchman overture, which was published apparently some years ago by Immortal Performances with the only difference of a track divided in two (may be I could be wrong). There is also a never issued of the 1947 Tristan prelude in concert version: in effects the only copy I found some years ago was presented on Youtube by Stefano Del Cortivo, which does not include the commentary available in Caniell's edition.

Ciao

Ezio

[Ad Musicam]

The two box are arrived and are marvelous.

It's realy a publication of major importance.

Some sources for the BBC concerts are comming from Luciano.

The 1935 NYPSO Wagner is as exceptionnal we could expect with very good sound for the source.

The Parsifal is from heaven and give us an idea of what could be Toscanini' Parsifal from Bayreuth.

There are interrogations about what we are precisely hearing.

For exemple the patch at the end of Siegfried funeral can't be from another NYPSO concert as say in the notes. It sound from NBC SO, probably in Carnegie Hall.

The Beethoven 7th rehearsal is astonishing. I heard it three times!

What an inside. Only first and second movment but with long portions. But it can't be from 1951 ( just my ears impression).

It sound from 8-H for the 1947: the same interpretative way.

Also, it seems to me the Prokofiev is not the rehearsal of the 1951 but another in 8H, perhaps 1950?

Of course only subjective "ears impression" .

[Luciano Crivello]

Siegfried's Funeral patch could be of the NYP concert of 13 Jan. 1945.

Considering that the rehearsal of 1951 are fron the New York Library, they could be really of 1951.

Luciano

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[Ad Musicam]

Yes, Luciano,

How stupide I am!

Of course de NYPSO 1945 CONCERT!!!

For the Beethoven 7th rehearsal I have an etrange feeling.

It sound to my ears from studio 8H.

Also there is something strange when you compare to the Berlioz rehearsal on the same disc.

It is clearly not the same acoustic and microphone placement.

Also Toscanini voice is absolutly not the same: a little tired and broken in the Berlioz, as it is in many rehearsals recordings from Carnegie Hall last years. In the Beethoven, the voice id very clear, vivid, like the Wagner Walkure 1947 recordings.

I just have a look on New York public database.

The acetate or tapes recordings for the 1951 are all missing.

Only exist in Public Congress Library rehearsal for Beethoven with all four movments in 1951.

Curiously, it is not at the right place in the original chronological list.

In the notes Canniell say it exist only two movment.

And for the 1947 concert, you can see it exist an acetates rehearsal with ...only the two movments one and two...that seems to confirm my impression...

[Luciano Crivello]

Probably you are right with the Seventh rehearsals.

In any case three days are listed in the Archives and in the three days the rehearsals of the seventh are complete.

The voice of Toscanini in Falstaff rehearsals is the same of 1946 and slightly older in 1951 Requiem dress Rehearsal (in the Tuba Mirum), so you can be right for the 1947 rehearsals of the seventh.

Cari saluti

Luciano

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[Luciano Crivello]

-------- Messaggio Inoltrato --------

Oggetto:	Re: New Immortal Performance releases
Data:	Fri, 26 May 2023 20:57:37 +0200
Mittente:	Luciano Crivello <crll...@gmail.com>
A:	toscanin...@googlegroups.com

[Ad Musicam]

Just to say another time how these publications are very important ones and give us a new inside in Toscanini art.

Any comment from Toscanini listeners here?