Open Folder Dialog doesn't appear all the time

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Roman Käppeler

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Apr 14, 2009, 4:38:26 PM4/14/09
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Hi all,

in the "Checkout"-DialogBox of TortoiseSVN there is a button to select a
folder for the "URL of respository".

Unfortunately, if you click on the "..."-Button it doesn't always show
the "Open Folder"-Dialog. If the Textfield beside this button already
has a valid URL (e.g. file:////a/b/c) from a previous checkout, you
won't see the DialogBox unless you delete as many characters that the
URL isn't valid anymore. If there is a valid URL in the Textfield, e.g.
from a previous checkout, the "Repository-Browser"-Dialog will appear
instead of the "Open Folder"-Dialog.

If the textfield for "URL of repository" is empty, the "..."-Button is
also disabled, which isn't good and should also be changed. This Button
should ALWAYS be enabled to select a folder.

Expected behaviour: As many people use TortoiseSVN in a local
environment or assign a Windows Drive Letter to a network, it would be
useful that the "..."-Button is ALWAYS enabled and the "Open
Folder"-DialogBox will ALWAYS appear if the users clicks on the
"..."-Button. Otherwise the user has to delete characters in the "URL of
repository"-Textfield first until he can see the the OpenFolder-Dialog
when clicking on "...".

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Jean-Marc van Leerdam

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Apr 15, 2009, 1:21:07 AM4/15/09
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Hi Roman,

2009/4/14 Roman Käppeler <rkaep...@web.de>:


> Hi all,
>
> in the "Checkout"-DialogBox of TortoiseSVN there is a button to select a
> folder for the "URL of respository".
>
> Unfortunately, if you click on the "..."-Button it doesn't always show
> the "Open Folder"-Dialog.

And that is good, since there are probably a lot more users using the
svn:, http: or https: protocol than there are users using the file:
protocol. And only the file: protocol needs the Open Folder dialog.

> If the Textfield beside this button already
> has a valid URL (e.g. file:////a/b/c) from a previous checkout, you
> won't see the DialogBox unless you delete as many characters that the
> URL isn't valid anymore. If there is a valid URL in the Textfield, e.g.
> from a previous checkout, the "Repository-Browser"-Dialog will appear
> instead of the "Open Folder"-Dialog.
>

And that is a good think IMHO. You can still switch to another
repository from that dialog as well, even those accessed via file:.

> If the textfield for "URL of repository" is empty, the "..."-Button is
> also disabled, which isn't good and should also be changed. This Button
> should ALWAYS be enabled to select a folder.

Maybe, but I think it is better to first decide on the protocol you
want to use, and then activate the '...' button as soon as a
reasonable default can be guessed (which is how it works at the moment
IIRC).

--
Regards,

Jean-Marc
--
. ___
. @@ // \\ "De Chelonian Mobile"
. (_,\/ \_/ \ TortoiseSVN
. \ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
. /_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.net

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David Balažic

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Apr 15, 2009, 8:58:56 AM4/15/09
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Hi!

I also think the current behavior is not good:

- the button has two functions: Folder browser (to select a folder
in the filesystem) and repository browser
and the third "function": disabled

It is hard to guess which function is when active and why it
is sometimes suddenly disabled.

Also, it is disabled, when there is a valid file: URL entered,
then later, it is enabled, when the very same URL is in the text field.

Regards,
David

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web...@tigris.org

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Apr 18, 2009, 3:41:00 PM4/18/09
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> > Unfortunately, if you click on the
> > "..."-Button it doesn't always show
> > the "Open Folder"-Dialog.
>
> And that is good, since there are probably
> a lot more users using the svn:, http: or
> https: protocol than there are users using
> the file: protocol. And only the file:
> protocol needs the Open Folder dialog.

I agree, there are probably a lot more users using those protocols. But on using the GUI you except a different behaviour. Users that use one the protocols above still have to *type* the other location of their repository. In my opinion the repository browser doesn't make sense for them also and they are better off to directly type in the new location URI in the checkout dialog box.

For users working with repositories on the local file system or with repositories that are on a server but that are mapped thei to a Windows drive letter, it would be much more easier and familiar to get the open folder dialog when clicking on the "..."-Button.


> Maybe, but I think it is better to first
> decide on the protocol you want to use,
> and then activate the '...' button as soon
> as a reasonable default can be guessed
> (which is how it works at the moment
> IIRC).

But this is somehow not what users expect normally, as I can see on many people in my organization and myself.

Sounds tough, but in my opinion the repository browser dialog is useless in this context and should be excluded!

So if someone wants to navigate to a URI, I suppose she/he will type that in prior to using the repository browser.

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web...@tigris.org

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Apr 22, 2009, 2:08:35 PM4/22/09
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> > If the Textfield beside this button
> > already has a valid URL (e.g.
> > file:////a/b/c) from a previous
> > checkout, you won't see the DialogBox
> > unless you delete as many characters
> > that the URL isn't valid anymore. If
> > there is a valid URL in the Textfield,
> > e.g. from a previous checkout, the
> > "Repository-Browser"-Dialog will appear
> > instead of the "Open Folder"-Dialog.
> >
>
> And that is a good think IMHO. You can
> still switch to another repository from
> that dialog as well, even those accessed
> via file:.

How can you do that? I can't see a possibility to select a new folder in that window.

I also think that something should be done concerning usability on these two windows.

--
Dennis Wingbe

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Kurt Pruenner

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Apr 22, 2009, 2:33:29 PM4/22/09
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web...@tigris.org wrote:
>> And that is a good think IMHO. You can still switch to another
>> repository from that dialog as well, even those accessed via file:.
>>
>
> How can you do that? I can't see a possibility to select a new folder
> in that window.

Enter "file:///" in the textbox, then click on the button.

But yeah, there really should be a way to launch both the repo browser
as well as a directory picker from this dialog.

That's usually done with one of those buttons that have a dropdown-arrow
on them and pop up a dropdown menu when the arrow is clicked - that way
you can still keep the current behaviour when the "..." portion is
clicked, but allow the user choosing what to do (even without having to
enter anything into the textbox) when neccessary.

--
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria
.......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N".......
np: Jared Emerson-Johnson - La Oficina Del Futuro
(Sam & Max Season Two OST (Disc 2))

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Roman Käppeler

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Apr 24, 2009, 11:45:06 AM4/24/09
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> >> And that is a good think IMHO. You can still switch to another
> >> repository from that dialog as well, even those accessed via file:.
> >>
> >
> > How can you do that? I can't see a possibility to select a new
> > folder in that window.
>
> Enter "file:///" in the textbox, then click on the button.
>
> But yeah, there really should be a way to launch both the repo browser
> as well as a directory picker from this dialog.

If you asked me, I wouldn't need the "Repository Browser". The user
guidance is too confusing, in my opinion.

There are serveral ways to improve the "Checkout" dialog box.
I think a "..."-Button always should do the same in every application
and therefore it should display the "Open Folder" dialog box. The
behaviour of a "..."-Button is pretty much the same in everywhere
Windows/Linux application.

A quick shot to improve this window might be a second drop-down menu
(ComboBox) on the left hand side of the "URL of
repository"-DropDown-Menu. It should show all of the protocols a user
can use (e.g. "http:///", "svn:", "file:///", ...) plus there should be
a Button with a "Delete"-Icon to delete the rest of the content (e.g.
the "D:/my%20%content/").

Therefore if a user has already selected "file:///" in a previous
checkout and opens the checkout dialog box again to select a different
"URL of repository" the first drop-down menu already displays "file:///"
and the content of the second drop-down menu can easily be deleted by
clicking on the "Delte"-Icon.

This is just one click to delete the content of the "URL of repository"
and a second click on the "..."-Button to show the "Open Folder" dialog
box. I think that could be easily realized.

If you do not delete the content in "URL of repository", the "Repository
Browser" is still opened by clicking the "..."-Button.


> That's usually done with one of those buttons that have a
> dropdown-arrow on them and pop up a dropdown menu when the
> arrow is clicked - that way you can still keep the current
> behaviour when the "..." portion is clicked, but allow the user
> choosing what to do (even without having to enter anything into the
> textbox) when neccessary.

In my opinion users should not be forced to type in anything. The
current GUI actually forces users to type in at least "file:///" to
change the location of a repository, otherwise you end up in the repo
browser and you are lost. No one really understands how to configure the
elements on that dialog box to finally get the "Open Folder" dialog.

TortoiseSVN also saves the location of the last repository (which is
really good), but to change a location have to type in "file:///", for
instance.


Do you think the current behaviour could be changed in one of the next
releases of TortoiseSVN?

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Kurt Pruenner

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Apr 24, 2009, 12:40:10 PM4/24/09
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Roman Käppeler wrote:
> If you asked me, I wouldn't need the "Repository Browser". The user
> guidance is too confusing, in my opinion.

Fine for you, but all I ever use is the Repository Browser, so the file
selector could be dropped for all I care.

> There are serveral ways to improve the "Checkout" dialog box.
> I think a "..."-Button always should do the same in every application
> and therefore it should display the "Open Folder" dialog box. The
> behaviour of a "..."-Button is pretty much the same in everywhere
> Windows/Linux application.

Exactly - they bring up a dialog for an advanced way of filling the
textbox next to them, which can be everything from a color picker to a
font selection dialog to a file selector to, obviously, TSVN's
Repository Browser. Because usually I don't want to check out the whole
repository, and a file selector gives you exactly zero opportunity to
select a folder from the repository like the Repository Browser does now.

Where did you get the idea that all a "..." button ever does is bring up
a file selector? That's usually done with a button labelled "Browse...".

Also, in case you haven't noticed it the textbox here is a URL entry
field, so you could say it's rather surprising for a standard windows
file selector to open at all.

--
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria
.......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N".......

np: Jared Emerson-Johnson - City Streets (Season Two Arrangement)


(Sam & Max Season Two OST (Disc 2))

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Roman Käppeler

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Apr 24, 2009, 6:34:27 PM4/24/09
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> > If you asked me, I wouldn't need the "Repository Browser". The user
> > guidance is too confusing, in my opinion.
>
> Fine for you, but all I ever use is the Repository Browser, so the
> file selector could be dropped for all I care.

Okay, seems like you never change to a totally different repository. In
my organization we have one server for our sources. If there are several
projects we create different repositories on the server like:

D:\SVN_Repositories\ProjectA
D:\SVN_Repositories\SubProjects\ProjectAB
...

Normally we connect to the server by mapping it on a network drive.
Therefore changing the repository and navigating to the other location
"feels like" navigating to a different folder in the filesystem.

I am sorry, but checking out ProjectA to a folder MyLocalCopyA and
afterwards checking out ProjectB to MyLocalCopyB isn't easily possible
with the repository browser. I can't see the way how this should be
possible in the repo browser.

Why not change the behaviour of the "..."-Button to display the "Open
Folder" dialog? This would be much more easier and understandable for
users. I am not the only in my organization that doesn't like/understand
the way TortoiseSVN is acting here.

> > There are serveral ways to improve the "Checkout" dialog box.
> > I think a "..."-Button always should do the same in every
> > application and therefore it should display the "Open Folder" dialog
> > box. The behaviour of a "..."-Button is pretty much the same in
> > everywhere Windows/Linux application.
>
> Exactly - they bring up a dialog for an advanced way of filling the
> textbox next to them, which can be everything from a color picker to a
> font selection dialog to a file selector to, obviously, TSVN's
> Repository Browser. Because usually I don't want to check out the
> whole repository, and a file selector gives you exactly zero
> opportunity to select a folder from the repository like the Repository
> Browser does now.

I don't talk about a "file selector" but a "folder selector". There are
two different dialog boxes in Windows - a "File Open"-DialogBox and a
"Open Folder"-Dialog box.

What I'd like to have is the "Open Folder"-DialogBox. I think this would
help you too, to select a folder within a repository.

> Where did you get the idea that all a "..." button ever does is bring
> up a file selector? That's usually done with a button labelled
> "Browse...".

Okay, my statement wasn't correct for all cases. But most of the GUIs I
know only have a "..."-Button right beside a textfield where users
should fill in a path/folder.

> Also, in case you haven't noticed it the textbox here is a URL entry
> field, so you could say it's rather surprising for a standard windows
> file selector to open at all.

My expectation and the expectation of my fellows was that we have to
fill in a URL on a remote machine if the appropriate URI is not mapped
to a drive letter. But if we've already mapped a remote server to a
drive letter, why should we type in "file:///" again? Why not just
navigate through the folder browser dialog?

TortoiseSVN already knows that I've previously used the
"file:///"-protocol as the address of the previous repository is still
in the ComboBox-Textfield. So why not show the folder browser dialog?

If the user specified a different protocol like "http://" that is a
different side of the coin. I don't believe so, but maybe in this case
it does make sense to show the repo browser. But if the
ComboBox-Textfield already shows "file:///" then I expect to get a
folder browser dialog box by clicking on "..."


Don't you agree with my statements? What would be your preferred
behaviour? Do you like the way TortoiseSVN is acting right now?

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Stefan Küng

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Apr 25, 2009, 4:16:51 AM4/25/09
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Roman Käppeler wrote:
>>> If you asked me, I wouldn't need the "Repository Browser". The user
>>> guidance is too confusing, in my opinion.
>> Fine for you, but all I ever use is the Repository Browser, so the
>> file selector could be dropped for all I care.
>
> Okay, seems like you never change to a totally different repository. In
> my organization we have one server for our sources. If there are several
> projects we create different repositories on the server like:
>
> D:\SVN_Repositories\ProjectA
> D:\SVN_Repositories\SubProjects\ProjectAB
> ...
>
> Normally we connect to the server by mapping it on a network drive.

Ok, but we've repeatedly warned users *not* to do that. If you, despite
all warnings still do that, I don't see any reason to make it easier for
you to do it.
If you want to do something that's dangerous and not recommended, it
*should* be hard to do and the UI should do everything to discourage you
from continuing doing it.
We won't prevent you from doing it, but we definitely won't help you do it.


Stefan


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\ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control

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