Shipping Subversion binaries with TortoiseSVN installer?

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Trent Nelson

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Jan 23, 2009, 12:13:16 PM1/23/09
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One of my clients is a Windows shop, through-and-through. So much so that the majority of users and developers consider TortoiseSVN to *be* Subversion. You know, like when your nanna thought that AOL *was* the internet back in the late 90s.

That's fine, some people just don't work via command line -- I'm okay with that. However, I write a lot of scripts for these teams that call svn.exe, svnmucc.exe et al, so I need them to install the Subversion command line client as well, which is met with typical apathy in most cases.

We're in the process of doing the 'enterprise scripting' of TortoiseSVN and Subversion now such that they can be pushed out via the client's standard MSI deployment stuff. It's a bit annoying that we have to script both applications. I think part of this is because TortoiseSVN is usually way ahead of the curve with regards to tracking stable Subversion branches than the installers provided by tigris.org.

At the time of writing, the latest version of TortoiseSVN is 1.5.6, built against Subversion 1.5.5. The latest installer available from tigris.org is 1.5.3. Sure, they're binary compatible, but they may not be bug compatible, which can be problematic when supporting thousands of users.

And, well, you build Subversion when you build TortoiseSVN anyway. You already ship all the libsvn* libraries, APR and OpenSSL dependencies in %PROGRAMFILES%\TortoiseSVN\bin.

What are your thoughts on shipping the svn*.exe binaries as well?


Trent.


(Note: On double-checking %PROGRAMFILES%\TortoiseSVN\bin before sending, I saw that you don't actually ship the libsvn* libraries, so I assume it's all statically compiled into TortoiseSVN.dll. I understand that'll require more changes than simply including a few additional executables in the installer.)

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Simon Large

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Jan 23, 2009, 6:45:04 PM1/23/09
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2009/1/23 Trent Nelson <tne...@onresolve.com>:

> One of my clients is a Windows shop, through-and-through. So much so that the majority of users and developers consider TortoiseSVN to *be* Subversion. You know, like when your nanna thought that AOL *was* the internet back in the late 90s.
>
> That's fine, some people just don't work via command line -- I'm okay with that. However, I write a lot of scripts for these teams that call svn.exe, svnmucc.exe et al, so I need them to install the Subversion command line client as well, which is met with typical apathy in most cases.
>
> We're in the process of doing the 'enterprise scripting' of TortoiseSVN and Subversion now such that they can be pushed out via the client's standard MSI deployment stuff. It's a bit annoying that we have to script both applications. I think part of this is because TortoiseSVN is usually way ahead of the curve with regards to tracking stable Subversion branches than the installers provided by tigris.org.
>
> At the time of writing, the latest version of TortoiseSVN is 1.5.6, built against Subversion 1.5.5. The latest installer available from tigris.org is 1.5.3. Sure, they're binary compatible, but they may not be bug compatible, which can be problematic when supporting thousands of users.

1.5.5 is certainly available here:
http://www.collab.net/downloads/subversion/

> And, well, you build Subversion when you build TortoiseSVN anyway. You already ship all the libsvn* libraries, APR and OpenSSL dependencies in %PROGRAMFILES%\TortoiseSVN\bin.

Well those are all dependencies for TSVN. svn*.exe is not.

> What are your thoughts on shipping the svn*.exe binaries as well?

I think probably not as the tools are readily available elsewhere.
Does svn include TSVN in its Windows distribution?

Simon

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: \ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
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Trent Nelson

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Jan 24, 2009, 9:21:54 AM1/24/09
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> Simon Large wrote:
> 2009/1/23 Trent Nelson <tne...@onresolve.com>:

> > At the time of writing, the latest version of TortoiseSVN is
> > 1.5.6, built against Subversion 1.5.5. The latest installer
> > available from tigris.org is 1.5.3. Sure, they're binary
> > compatible, but they may not be bug compatible, which can be
> > problematic when supporting thousands of users.
>
> 1.5.5 is certainly available here:
> http://www.collab.net/downloads/subversion/

Oh, I didn't mean that there weren't 1.5.5 installers available
for Windows -- there certainly are. I was referring specifically
to the tigris.org installers lagging behind the current version.

The problem I have with the Collab.Net installer is that it doesn't
include the same set of binaries as the tigris.org one; svnmucc.exe
is missing, for example. The directory structure is completely
different too. Given that we've already got hundreds of developers
using the tigris.org package, it's just not worth trying to use a
different installer.

> > And, well, you build Subversion when you build TortoiseSVN
> > anyway. You already ship all the libsvn* libraries, APR and
> > OpenSSL dependencies in %PROGRAMFILES%\TortoiseSVN\bin.
>
> Well those are all dependencies for TSVN. svn*.exe is not.

Well that's sort of my point. They're not dependencies, the world
keeps on spinning even though you don't ship them.

However, it wouldn't take much effort to include them, and if you
did, it would be supremely convenient -- if I want Subversion on
Windows, I just install TortoiseSVN. I don't need to go digging
around for a suitable Subversion installer as well.

> > What are your thoughts on shipping the svn*.exe binaries as
> > well?
>
> I think probably not as the tools are readily available elsewhere.
> Does svn include TSVN in its Windows distribution?

Hmmmm. Neither of these points come close to refuting the arguments
I'm trying to make *for* their inclusion, so I guess I'm not arguing
my point well enough.

I'll try a different angle: would you consider it if I were to provide
patches? (Just trying to gauge whether or not it's an "Absolutely no
way, for reasons X, Y, Z.", or a "Meh, not really bothered either way,
if you want to send patches we'll consider it.".)


Trent.

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Stefan Küng

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Jan 24, 2009, 11:06:29 AM1/24/09
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Trent Nelson wrote:
>> Simon Large wrote:
>> 2009/1/23 Trent Nelson <tne...@onresolve.com>:
>>> At the time of writing, the latest version of TortoiseSVN is
>>> 1.5.6, built against Subversion 1.5.5. The latest installer
>>> available from tigris.org is 1.5.3. Sure, they're binary
>>> compatible, but they may not be bug compatible, which can be
>>> problematic when supporting thousands of users.
>> 1.5.5 is certainly available here:
>> http://www.collab.net/downloads/subversion/
>
> Oh, I didn't mean that there weren't 1.5.5 installers available
> for Windows -- there certainly are. I was referring specifically
> to the tigris.org installers lagging behind the current version.
>
> The problem I have with the Collab.Net installer is that it doesn't
> include the same set of binaries as the tigris.org one; svnmucc.exe
> is missing, for example. The directory structure is completely
> different too. Given that we've already got hundreds of developers
> using the tigris.org package, it's just not worth trying to use a
> different installer.

And if we would ship the binaries, then others would complain that we
use the directory structure of the tigris.org installer instead of the
collab.net one.

> However, it wouldn't take much effort to include them, and if you
> did, it would be supremely convenient -- if I want Subversion on
> Windows, I just install TortoiseSVN. I don't need to go digging
> around for a suitable Subversion installer as well.

Not much effort? Have you tried it?
Sure, our build system already *does* build svn.exe and svnadmin.exe.
But they're linked statically to the svn libs too, so no dlls either.

> I'll try a different angle: would you consider it if I were to provide
> patches? (Just trying to gauge whether or not it's an "Absolutely no
> way, for reasons X, Y, Z.", or a "Meh, not really bothered either way,
> if you want to send patches we'll consider it.".)

Nope, sorry:

* it would increase our installer file by several MBs, which a lot of
users would complain about
* if we ship it, we have to support it. Way too much work.

Ask yourself: why do you ask *here*? You obviously have a problem with
tigris.org not providing timely installers. So go and complain there.
But I guess you already did that with no success. So why are you now
trying it here? Ask yourself that very question: why here?

Stefan

--
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\ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
/_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.net

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Kevin Radke

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Jan 26, 2009, 12:25:19 PM1/26/09
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On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Stefan Küng <torto...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]

>> However, it wouldn't take much effort to include them, and if you
>> did, it would be supremely convenient -- if I want Subversion on
>> Windows, I just install TortoiseSVN. I don't need to go digging
>> around for a suitable Subversion installer as well.
>
> Not much effort? Have you tried it?
> Sure, our build system already *does* build svn.exe and svnadmin.exe.
> But they're linked statically to the svn libs too, so no dlls either.
>
>> I'll try a different angle: would you consider it if I were to provide
>> patches? (Just trying to gauge whether or not it's an "Absolutely no
>> way, for reasons X, Y, Z.", or a "Meh, not really bothered either way,
>> if you want to send patches we'll consider it.".)
>
> Nope, sorry:

Just as another datapoint, I would find it useful.

> * it would increase our installer file by several MBs, which a lot of
> users would complain about
> * if we ship it, we have to support it. Way too much work.

On the other side of the coin:
You already ask people to "see if things break with the command line
client", so it may actually help in support activities because it would
be much easier to have them try the command line client...

I'll agree the installer is getting too big. It went from 9M to 18M between
1.4 and 1.5. However, I doubt including svn.exe would increase it by
that amount
which was previously deemed ok between 1.4 and 1.5...

> Ask yourself: why do you ask *here*? You obviously have a problem with
> tigris.org not providing timely installers. So go and complain there.
> But I guess you already did that with no success. So why are you now
> trying it here? Ask yourself that very question: why here?

The missing installer was the cause of the question, but there
are usually multiple ways to solve a "problem". I think both
the question and the answer are valid here...

I have frequently thought about providing my own internal corporate
installer that included both TortoiseSVN and the command line utils.
(But yes, I've been too lazy to do this, so that alone would indicate
I haven't considered the separate installers that big of a deal.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm EXTREMELY happy with TortoiseSVN.
Keep up the great work!

Kevin R.

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Stefan Küng

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Jan 26, 2009, 12:30:28 PM1/26/09
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Kevin Radke wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Stefan Küng <torto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>>> However, it wouldn't take much effort to include them, and if you
>>> did, it would be supremely convenient -- if I want Subversion on
>>> Windows, I just install TortoiseSVN. I don't need to go digging
>>> around for a suitable Subversion installer as well.
>> Not much effort? Have you tried it?
>> Sure, our build system already *does* build svn.exe and svnadmin.exe.
>> But they're linked statically to the svn libs too, so no dlls either.
>>
>>> I'll try a different angle: would you consider it if I were to provide
>>> patches? (Just trying to gauge whether or not it's an "Absolutely no
>>> way, for reasons X, Y, Z.", or a "Meh, not really bothered either way,
>>> if you want to send patches we'll consider it.".)
>> Nope, sorry:
>
> Just as another datapoint, I would find it useful.
>
>> * it would increase our installer file by several MBs, which a lot of
>> users would complain about
>> * if we ship it, we have to support it. Way too much work.
>
> On the other side of the coin:
> You already ask people to "see if things break with the command line
> client", so it may actually help in support activities because it would
> be much easier to have them try the command line client...

It would definitely *not* help. When we ask people to reproduce an issue
with the command line client we do that so they can report the issue on
the Subversion mailing list.
If they would report that they've used the client built with TSVN, the
Subversion devs would just ignore those posts and refer them back to us.


Stefan


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\ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
/_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.net

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Ulf Zibis

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Jan 27, 2009, 7:11:39 PM1/27/09
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Am 24.01.2009 00:45, Simon Large schrieb:
>> At the time of writing, the latest version of TortoiseSVN is 1.5.6, built against Subversion 1.5.5. The latest installer available from tigris.org is 1.5.3. Sure, they're binary compatible, but they may not be bug compatible, which can be problematic when supporting thousands of users.
>>
>
> 1.5.5 is certainly available here:
> http://www.collab.net/downloads/subversion/
>
>
Yes, now it is, but it also had big delay after TSVN-1.5.6-...-svn-1.5.5...

>> What are your thoughts on shipping the svn*.exe binaries as well?
>>
>
> I think probably not as the tools are readily available elsewhere.
> Does svn include TSVN in its Windows distribution?
>
>

Why it should do this, or is svn a command line client on top of TSVN ? ;-)

-Ulf

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Ulf Zibis

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Jan 27, 2009, 7:36:28 PM1/27/09
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Am 26.01.2009 18:30, Stefan Küng schrieb:
> It would definitely *not* help. When we ask people to reproduce an issue
> with the command line client we do that so they can report the issue on
> the Subversion mailing list.
> If they would report that they've used the client built with TSVN, the
> Subversion devs would just ignore those posts and refer them back to us.
>
>
I suggest, avoid going out of your house, as heaven could fall on your
head. ... or in other words: Why so pessimistic?
What will happen to people, who have build the binaries there selves?
According your rule above, they would never have the chance to file a bug.
I think, it should be decided between bugs caused by a special build,
and those, caused by errors in the svn sources.

-Ulf

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Ulf Zibis

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Jan 27, 2009, 7:46:07 PM1/27/09
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Am 24.01.2009 17:06, Stefan Küng schrieb:
> Nope, sorry:
> * it would increase our installer file by several MBs, which a lot of
> users would complain about
>

Are you sure ? svn.exe from collab's build has only 145 kb.

I like Trent's idea. Why having most of the svn libraries twice on a system?
Maybe we could have a folder like "tigris shared", which could be
accessed from svn.exe and from TSVN.

-Ulf

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Kevin Radke

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Jan 27, 2009, 8:02:21 PM1/27/09
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Since I assume there would no code changes from the release, I doubt
they would do that. I've never seen them care if it was a SlikSVN, or
tigris, or collabnet compiled command line version. (In fact, the
developers don't even endorse the tigris version.)

But yes, that was the "best" positive I could come up with, and it
is admittedly a VERY weak argument. :)

Kevin R.

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Stefan....@etas.com

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Jan 28, 2009, 5:03:22 AM1/28/09
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Kevin Radke <kmr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Stefan Küng wrote:
> > [snip]


> > It would definitely *not* help. When we ask people to reproduce an
issue
> > with the command line client we do that so they can report the issue
on
> > the Subversion mailing list.
> > If they would report that they've used the client built with TSVN, the
> > Subversion devs would just ignore those posts and refer them back to
us.
>
> Since I assume there would no code changes from the release, I doubt
> they would do that. I've never seen them care if it was a SlikSVN, or
> tigris, or collabnet compiled command line version. (In fact, the
> developers don't even endorse the tigris version.)
>
> But yes, that was the "best" positive I could come up with, and it
> is admittedly a VERY weak argument. :)

In fact, we (used to) patch a file or two. Moreover,
TSVN uses its own build scripts and builds against
a different MS VC version than most others.

Both points make it harder for developers to confirm
a bug. Even more so as there have been cases of strange /
unfavorable behavior that were specific to the
Windows platform.

-- Stefan^2.

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Magnus ...

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Feb 4, 2009, 10:37:16 AM2/4/09
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I just posted the same request on the Users list:
http://groups.google.com/group/tortoisesvn/browse_thread/thread/7f25f1f989303757
(sorry about that, it was a silly location).

It seems that the answer here really is NO, and that it has been
argued on architectural and support grounds by the people that have
been kind enough to provide the world with TortoiseSVN, which really
is the coolest interface to Subversion. So I won't argue with that.


I wonder what would happen if someone were to use ORCA and/or WiX to
join matching SlikSVN and TortoiseSVN installers in one and provide
the result to the world. The questions would then be:

1. Is such a distribution allowed by the licenses the projects are
governed by, and if not, would the developers object to such a
release?
2. Is it likely that either project would host such an installer?
3. Is it likely that svn.tigris.org would provide a pointer to such a
combined installer, along with the existing pointers?

This is not an itch that I would be likely to scratch, but it sounds
that for some people, doing this in an open-source way in order to
potentially elicit contributions from a wider crowd would be
desireable, and could be done with minimal friction using sourceforge
or google code.

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Stefan Küng

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Feb 4, 2009, 11:25:57 AM2/4/09
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Magnus ... wrote:
> I just posted the same request on the Users list:
> http://groups.google.com/group/tortoisesvn/browse_thread/thread/7f25f1f989303757
> (sorry about that, it was a silly location).
>
> It seems that the answer here really is NO, and that it has been
> argued on architectural and support grounds by the people that have
> been kind enough to provide the world with TortoiseSVN, which really
> is the coolest interface to Subversion. So I won't argue with that.
>
>
> I wonder what would happen if someone were to use ORCA and/or WiX to
> join matching SlikSVN and TortoiseSVN installers in one and provide
> the result to the world. The questions would then be:
>
> 1. Is such a distribution allowed by the licenses the projects are
> governed by, and if not, would the developers object to such a
> release?

Yes, and yes.

If someone else would start providing downloads for TSVN, I would:
* definitely not support any issues users have with that non-official
download
* maybe even stop providing the official build - I have no intention of
spending hours to get a release ready so others can make money from it

Stefan

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Ulf Zibis

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Feb 4, 2009, 12:35:48 PM2/4/09
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Another reason, why svn.exe would be very useful in your distribution,
is, that upgrading to TSVN dev builds would become more easy and probable.
Reason:
It's very hard to find a binary of latest dev builds of subversion
client, so my work dirs would become inaccessible from official svn.exe
after I installed TSVN dev build. Also the subversion support from my
IDE would break, as it depends on svn.exe.

-Ulf

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Simon Large

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Feb 4, 2009, 12:45:37 PM2/4/09
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2009/2/4 Ulf Zibis <Ulf....@gmx.de>:

> Another reason, why svn.exe would be very useful in your distribution,
> is, that upgrading to TSVN dev builds would become more easy and probable.
> Reason:
> It's very hard to find a binary of latest dev builds of subversion
> client, so my work dirs would become inaccessible from official svn.exe
> after I installed TSVN dev build. Also the subversion support from my
> IDE would break, as it depends on svn.exe.

svn.exe and svnadmin.exe are already available on the nightly build
site. For testing a nightly I don't think it is too much to ask to
drop the extra files into the TSVN bin directory.

Simon

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Magnus ...

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Feb 4, 2009, 6:52:55 PM2/4/09
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Just a very quick note: When I suggested a merged installer I did
absolutely not envision it as something that anyone would make any
money from.

It seems very clear that this kind of packaging, through patches or
unofficial builds, is not looked upon positively upon by the people
whose opinion matters most. I do not completely understand this
opinion, but I certainly respect it. I will not be involved with
coming up with such unofficial builds, nor would I use them if they
became available.

Best,
Magnus

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Ulf Zibis

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Feb 5, 2009, 4:45:07 AM2/5/09
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Am 04.02.2009 18:45, Simon Large schrieb:
> svn.exe and svnadmin.exe are already available on the nightly build
> site. For testing a nightly I don't think it is too much to ask to
> drop the extra files into the TSVN bin directory.
>
> Simon
>
>
Simon, thanks for your answer, I did not know about this.
Maybe it would be helpful to add this hint to "Installing the Nightly
Build" on http://nightlybuilds.tortoisesvn.net/latest/ + in the Readme.txt.

Additional questions:
I wonder, that your svn.exe has 2 MByte, as svn.exe from Collabnet only
has 146 kByte.
Does that mean, that your svn.exe is standalone, so I could move it to
any location on my system, without any dependency from TSVN install dir?

Does your svn.exe have any different functionality against the
"official" from collabnet?

Just for interest: When do I need svnadmin.exe, and when svn.serve ?
Some short words would help.

-Ulf

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Simon Large

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Feb 5, 2009, 5:34:40 AM2/5/09
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2009/2/5 Ulf Zibis <Ulf....@gmx.de>:

> Am 04.02.2009 18:45, Simon Large schrieb:
>> svn.exe and svnadmin.exe are already available on the nightly build
>> site. For testing a nightly I don't think it is too much to ask to
>> drop the extra files into the TSVN bin directory.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
> Simon, thanks for your answer, I did not know about this.
> Maybe it would be helpful to add this hint to "Installing the Nightly
> Build" on http://nightlybuilds.tortoisesvn.net/latest/ + in the Readme.txt.

OK, will do.

> Additional questions:
> I wonder, that your svn.exe has 2 MByte, as svn.exe from Collabnet only
> has 146 kByte.
> Does that mean, that your svn.exe is standalone, so I could move it to
> any location on my system, without any dependency from TSVN install dir?

No it has to be in the TSVN install dir. I don't know why it is so much bigger.

> Does your svn.exe have any different functionality against the
> "official" from collabnet?

Yes, this is a pre-1.6 build using the same version of subversion as
the TSVN client. At the moment it is fairly close to subversion HEAD.
So it has upcoming svn 1.6 features as well.

> Just for interest: When do I need svnadmin.exe, and when svn.serve ?
> Some short words would help.

svnadmin.exe is for repository admin
svnserve.exe is the subversion svn:// protocol server

And there is more evidence for us _not_ providing svn as part of our
installer - people ask us for help on those packages too. They are
subversion packages, so you need to read the subversion docs. And if
you don't know what svnadmin is you probably should not be using a
nightly build anyway, as we assume you have some basic knowledge of
subversion or at least a willingness to go and find out.

Simon

--
: ___
: oo // \\ "De Chelonian Mobile"
: (_,\/ \_/ \ TortoiseSVN
: \ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
: /_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.net

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Ulf Zibis

unread,
Feb 5, 2009, 6:58:24 AM2/5/09
to d...@tortoisesvn.tigris.org
Am 05.02.2009 11:34, Simon Large schrieb:
> 2009/2/5 Ulf Zibis <Ulf....@gmx.de>:

>
>
>> Does your svn.exe have any different functionality against the
>> "official" from collabnet?
>>
>
> Yes, this is a pre-1.6 build using the same version of subversion as
> the TSVN client. At the moment it is fairly close to subversion HEAD.
> So it has upcoming svn 1.6 features as well.
>
>

Oops, sorry about having been not precise enough here. I meant things
like svnmucc or other differences, which also seem to be between
tigris.org and collabnet version, but not the differences depending on
1.6 against 1.5 version.

>> Just for interest: When do I need svnadmin.exe, and when svn.serve ?
>> Some short words would help.
>>
>
> svnadmin.exe is for repository admin
> svnserve.exe is the subversion svn:// protocol server
>

Thanks, I was in doubt, if the svnadmin is the tool, to manage a running
server. So as I understand right, it should be good idea e.g. to stop
the server before manipulating the repository via svnadmin.
You are completely right, that I should read the svn manual, if I come
in the situation of setting up a repo or a server. At this time I only
us an external svn server via WAN access.
So thanks anyway for your short answer.

-Ulf

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Stefan Küng

unread,
Feb 5, 2009, 11:52:08 AM2/5/09
to d...@tortoisesvn.tigris.org
Ulf Zibis wrote:
> Am 04.02.2009 18:45, Simon Large schrieb:
>> svn.exe and svnadmin.exe are already available on the nightly build
>> site. For testing a nightly I don't think it is too much to ask to
>> drop the extra files into the TSVN bin directory.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
> Simon, thanks for your answer, I did not know about this.
> Maybe it would be helpful to add this hint to "Installing the Nightly
> Build" on http://nightlybuilds.tortoisesvn.net/latest/ + in the Readme.txt.
>
> Additional questions:
> I wonder, that your svn.exe has 2 MByte, as svn.exe from Collabnet only
> has 146 kByte.

That 146kByte is the exe only. You have to count all the svn lib dlls too.
TSVN builds the svn exe with no dlls but links the libraries statically.
And it also links with serf (not just neon) and also statically links
with OpenSSL. That's why it is a lot bigger.

And no, I won't change the build to produce the dlls instead of linking
statically - we had big problems due to incompatible dlls installed by
other svn clients - why do you think the apr dlls in the TSVN bin
folders are called libapr*_tsvn.dll?

> Does that mean, that your svn.exe is standalone, so I could move it to
> any location on my system, without any dependency from TSVN install dir?

Not quite: it still needs the apr dlls (but as mentioned above: the
libapr*_tsvn.dll s).

> Does your svn.exe have any different functionality against the
> "official" from collabnet?

Apart from having serf and OpenSSL statically linked, there's also some
small differences in what's activated and what not. AFAIK the collab.net
client has SSPI disabled for neon/serf and SASL.

Stefan

--
___
oo // \\ "De Chelonian Mobile"
(_,\/ \_/ \ TortoiseSVN
\ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
/_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.net

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Ulf Zibis

unread,
Feb 6, 2009, 5:00:24 AM2/6/09
to d...@tortoisesvn.tigris.org
Stefan, much thanks for your interesting details.

Am 05.02.2009 17:52, Stefan Küng schrieb:
>
> That 146kByte is the exe only. You have to count all the svn lib dlls too.
> TSVN builds the svn exe with no dlls but links the libraries statically.
> And it also links with serf (not just neon) and also statically links
> with OpenSSL. That's why it is a lot bigger.
>
>
>

JFI, does that mean, that the svn libraries are statically linked
*twice*, in svn.exe and in Tortoise*.* ?
... and maybe partially also in svnadmin.exe + svnserve.exe ?

-Ulf

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Simon Large

unread,
Feb 6, 2009, 5:11:49 AM2/6/09
to d...@tortoisesvn.tigris.org
2009/2/6 Ulf Zibis <Ulf....@gmx.de>:

> Stefan, much thanks for your interesting details.
>
> Am 05.02.2009 17:52, Stefan Küng schrieb:
>>
>> That 146kByte is the exe only. You have to count all the svn lib dlls too.
>> TSVN builds the svn exe with no dlls but links the libraries statically.
>> And it also links with serf (not just neon) and also statically links
>> with OpenSSL. That's why it is a lot bigger.
>>
>>
>>
> JFI, does that mean, that the svn libraries are statically linked
> *twice*, in svn.exe and in Tortoise*.* ?
> ... and maybe partially also in svnadmin.exe + svnserve.exe ?

How can you link twice? What does that mean?

The TSVN build of svn*.* has more items statically linked than the
collabnet build. The exe is bigger and it uses less dlls. What's hard
to understand?

Simon

--
: ___
: oo // \\ "De Chelonian Mobile"
: (_,\/ \_/ \ TortoiseSVN
: \ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
: /_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.net

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Ulf Zibis

unread,
Feb 6, 2009, 5:50:01 PM2/6/09
to d...@tortoisesvn.tigris.org
Am 06.02.2009 11:11, Simon Large schrieb:
> 2009/2/6 Ulf Zibis <Ulf....@gmx.de>:
>
>> Stefan, much thanks for your interesting details.
>>
>> Am 05.02.2009 17:52, Stefan Küng schrieb:
>>
>>> That 146kByte is the exe only. You have to count all the svn lib dlls too.
>>> TSVN builds the svn exe with no dlls but links the libraries statically.
>>> And it also links with serf (not just neon) and also statically links
>>> with OpenSSL. That's why it is a lot bigger.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> JFI, does that mean, that the svn libraries are statically linked
>> *twice*, in svn.exe and in Tortoise*.* ?
>> ... and maybe partially also in svnadmin.exe + svnserve.exe ?
>>
>
> How can you link twice? What does that mean?
>
>

I assume, that TSVN needs functionality from the svn libraries, so that
they are statically linked in Tortoise*.* binaries.

If svn.exe also has statically linked the svn libraries, they will exist
exist "twice" in bin directory, if I add svn.exe there.
This is what I wanted to have confirmed.

Sorry about confusion,

-Ulf

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Simon Large

unread,
Feb 6, 2009, 6:11:50 PM2/6/09
to d...@tortoisesvn.tigris.org
2009/2/6 Ulf Zibis <Ulf....@gmx.de>:

> Am 06.02.2009 11:11, Simon Large schrieb:
>> 2009/2/6 Ulf Zibis <Ulf....@gmx.de>:
>>
>>> Stefan, much thanks for your interesting details.
>>>
>>> Am 05.02.2009 17:52, Stefan Küng schrieb:
>>>
>>>> That 146kByte is the exe only. You have to count all the svn lib dlls too.
>>>> TSVN builds the svn exe with no dlls but links the libraries statically.
>>>> And it also links with serf (not just neon) and also statically links
>>>> with OpenSSL. That's why it is a lot bigger.
>>>>
>>> JFI, does that mean, that the svn libraries are statically linked
>>> *twice*, in svn.exe and in Tortoise*.* ?
>>> ... and maybe partially also in svnadmin.exe + svnserve.exe ?
>>>
>>
>> How can you link twice? What does that mean?
>
> I assume, that TSVN needs functionality from the svn libraries, so that
> they are statically linked in Tortoise*.* binaries.
>
> If svn.exe also has statically linked the svn libraries, they will exist
> exist "twice" in bin directory, if I add svn.exe there.
> This is what I wanted to have confirmed.

Well yes, the library code exists in every executable that is
statically linked to it. That is what static linking means.

Simon

--
: ___
: oo // \\ "De Chelonian Mobile"
: (_,\/ \_/ \ TortoiseSVN
: \ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
: /_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.net

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