Re: [Toronto Urban Growers] Digest for toronto-urban-growers@googlegroups.com - 3 updates in 1 topic

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M K

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Jun 12, 2026, 12:08:43 PMJun 12
to toronto-ur...@googlegroups.com
Absolutely correct. Feedback is paid work. Market testing is paid work. 

On Fri, Jun 12, 2026 at 11:50 AM <toronto-ur...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Leah Bobet <le...@leahbobet.com>: Jun 11 11:50AM -0700

So I'm afraid this is raising an uncomfortable practical question: Are
messages from this list currently being harvested for "feedback" on
someone's monetized, privately-owned product?
 
Yes, the Internet is inevitably public in the end, but if we're in a
situation where community expertise and assistance is being fed into
someone's pre-launch IP without consent, that does change what I'm able to
discuss here.
 
I've got pre-print research to think about, but also the commitments I made
to people who were good enough to discuss their practices with me
(confidentiality, public good, building community capacity). If I share
aspects of practice here, in a community-building setting and within my
ethics guidelines, am I going to be breaking my word to my participants
because someone's sitting in the back feeding it into their AI product?
 
Thanks,
 
Leah Bobet
Rhonda Teitel-Payne <rho...@torontourbangrowers.org>: Jun 11 07:01PM -0400

Good question, Leah. I suggest taking a closer look at Google's privacy policy about how they use data. Perhaps someone on the list has an answer for this. 
 
 
 
Personally, I try to be careful about putting anything into an email that I wouldn't want the world to see and use. You never know when your messages might be forwarded or scooped by malware. 
 
 
 
Rhonda
 
 
 
 
Rhonda Teitel-Payne (she/her)
 
Co-coordinator
 
Toronto Urban Growers
 
http://www.torontourbangrowers.org
 
 
 
@TOurbangrowers #iGrowTO
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
From: Leah Bobet <le...@leahbobet.com>
To: "Toronto Urban Growers"<toronto-ur...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:50:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [Toronto Urban Growers] AI Farming
 
 
 
So I'm afraid this is raising an uncomfortable practical question: Are messages from this list currently being harvested for "feedback" on someone's monetized, privately-owned product?
 
 
 
Yes, the Internet is inevitably public in the end, but if we're in a situation where community expertise and assistance is being fed into someone's pre-launch IP without consent, that does change what I'm able to discuss here. 
 
 
 
I've got pre-print research to think about, but also the commitments I made to people who were good enough to discuss their practices with me (confidentiality, public good, building community capacity). If I share aspects of practice here, in a community-building setting and within my ethics guidelines, am I going to be breaking my word to my participants because someone's sitting in the back feeding it into their AI product?
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
 
 
 
 
Leah Bobet
 
On Thursday, June 11, 2026 at 11:36:11 AM UTC-4 mailto:karen....@gmail.com wrote:
 
Artificial intelligence as it currently exists is the aggregation of human knowledge and writing taken without permission and monetized. Toronto urban growers and the networks Sean mentioned are community intelligence -- that is more alive and empowering than any large language model or image generation platform being sold to us. 
 
 
 
 
 
I love this network precisely because it represents the antithesis of big tech and ai — community!
 
 
 
(Em-dashers unite!)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Thu, Jun 11, 2026 at 10:50 Nat Karpovskaia <> wrote:
 
 
 
Enthusiastic users of the em dash prior to AI, unite!!
 
 
 
Nat Karpovskaia (they/them pronouns)
 
Program Manager
 
Call or text:
 

 
http://www.notfarfromthetree.org/
 
http://www.notfarfromthetree.org
 
https://www.instagram.com/nfftt/https://www.facebook.com/NFFTT/https://notfarfromthetree.us2.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=08f970d0882074d587c853402&id=c905930eed
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Thu, Jun 11, 2026 at 10:45 AM Rhonda Teitel-Payne <> wrote:
 
Thanks Sean and others for your thoughts - and Sean for the shout out to some of the pillars of our community! The fact that you folks took the time to review the video and share your thoughts at a busy time of year is one reason this network works. 
 
 
 
I'm sure the feedback is valuable for Mohammad and his team, but it's also important for Joe, James and I to know where our community stands on these issues.
 
 
 
Just a reminder, the hand of the moderators on this list is quite light. We do our best to limit spam and abusive posts, but we don't review or endorse every project that is posted.
 
 
 
Although I must say that our "intelligence" is anything but artificial - it's as organic as it gets!
 
 
 
And yes, I'm reclaiming the m-dash from AI 
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
Rhonda
 
 
 
Rhonda Teitel-Payne (she/her)
 
Co-coordinator
 
Toronto Urban Growers
 
http://www.torontourbangrowers.org
 
 
 
@TOurbangrowers #iGrowTO
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
From: Maria Nunes <>
To: <>
Cc: "Toronto Urban Growers"<>, "AI Farming"<>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2026 17:14:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [Toronto Urban Growers] AI Farming
 
 
 
Good grief! I decided not to speak my mind when I saw the email.  I hadn't even seen the video until I read your response. Now that I have, I repeat... good grief.... And thank you for laying bare the very sad depths to which technology can bury the knowledge and wisdom of experience.
 
 
 
Imagine anyone actually depending on this tool alone assuming there wasn't a real person to learn from?
 
 
 
 
On Wed, Jun 10, 2026, 9:20 a.m. Sean Smith <> wrote:
 
Dear all,
 
 
 
I really do recommend watching the video, with particular attention to 0:53-0:58 on the timeline.
 
 
 
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cZyP_6-GJ5cz7Ij3-nf4EP-cD6VXTgRQ/view
 
 
 
If the AI that generated the video --- which plants about 60 of what look like cantaloupe seeds in a 3-inch hole --- represents an AI package that "empowers" urban growers to grow better, is that really the support you need?
 
Toronto Urban Growers is already an "artificial intelligence" for urban vegetable growers here in the city, with context-specific local knowledge.
 
 
You know who empowers garden design? BUFCO, Garden Daddy, and I could go on.
 
You know who empowers seed access? Urban Harvest, Toronto Seed Library, Seedy Saturdays, and I could go on.
 
 
You know who empowers problem solving? The Toronto Gardeners Facebook group, your local Nonna who's been growing tomatoes for 6 decades, and I could go on.
 
 
 
Johanne Daoust and Jose Dadural have forgotten more about growing in containers in the city than most of us have ever learned.
 
 
 
Homestead.TO, Foodshare, and Thorncliffe Park Urban Farmers will teach you everything you need to know about urban growing and then some.
 
 
 
Somehow, however, you are supposed to not understand what powdery mildew is, yet at the same time grow enough surplus in your backyard to sell to markets without this basic knowledge. Guess what? Withrow Park Farmers Market already allows you to do this with their urban growers program, and I could go on.
 
 
 
I am not as anti-AI as many are. In fact, I offer workshops specifically for small-scale farmers to use AI to *empower themselves*. This "app" is not it, though. It is a top-down solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
 
Toronto Urban Growers is already an artificial intelligence, though. Horizontal. See you at Toronto Urban Ag Week in September.
 
 
Rant over.
Sean
 
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 Crooked Farmz
 
 
 Brewing fresh compost teas and extracts for microbial health
 in agriculture, horticulture and arboriculture.
  http://www.%20crookedfarmz.net/  // @ https://www.instagram.com/crookedfarmz/  //
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
 
 
 We Must Heal The Soil. It's That Simple.
 
 
 
 
 
 Crooked Farmz is a Certified Compost Facility Operator
 
 
 with the Compost Council of Canada.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Tuesday, June 9, 2026 at 07:21:38 a.m. EDT, AI Farming <> wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
Hello Toronto Urban Grower,
 
 
 
My name is Mohammad Monzur Murshed Khan, Chief Executive Officer of AI Farming Inc., a Canadian agri-technology startup dedicated to empowering urban and small-scale farmers through artificial intelligence.
 
 
 
AI Farming has developed an AI-powered crop management platform for urban, backyard, indoor, and small-scale farming. The platform supports growers from seed planting to harvest with real-time guidance based on local weather, location, crop requirements, and agronomic best practices.
 
 
 
A key feature of our platform is its integrated community marketplace, which enables growers to connect with local buyers and sellers, market and sell fresh produce, and access seeds, supplies, and other agricultural inputs through a trusted local network.
 
 
 
For your reference, we have attached below a PowerPoint presentation drive link outlining our platform and its key features. 
 
 
 
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Jxd2U2PfZ-Msb98epw6AEWEZyK6uMo4V/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=109641413311159338883&rtpof=true&sd=true
 
AI Farming Inc. is pleased to announce that its commercial soft launch is scheduled for July 1, 2026, with the official public launch planned for September 17, 2026. The launch event, organized in collaboration with Spark Centre, is tentatively expected to be held at Durham College in Ontario’s Durham Region. Further details will be communicated as they become available. It would be a privilege to welcome you as our guest at this important occasion.
 
More information about our platform is available at:
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cZyP_6-GJ5cz7Ij3-nf4EP-cD6VXTgRQ/view
 
We would be pleased to have you or a representative from your organization attend this public inauguration event. To include you in our official invitation list and prepare your invitation letter, kindly provide your contact details at your earliest convenience.
 
I would welcome an opportunity to discuss potential collaboration and areas of mutual interest.
 
Kind regards,    
 
Mohammad Monzur Murshed Khan
Chief Executive Officer
AI Farming Inc.
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Phone:
e-mail:
Website: http://www.aifarming.ca
 
 
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To reply or post to this group, send email to
 
 
 
Questions?
 
You can reach us at
 
 
 
Mailing address
 
c/o Greenest City
 
220 Cowan Avenue
 
Toronto, Ontario
 
M6K 2N6
 
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To reply or post to this group, send email to
 
 
 
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You can reach us at
 
 
 
Mailing address
 
c/o Greenest City
 
220 Cowan Avenue
 
Toronto, Ontario
 
M6K 2N6
 
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Questions?
 
You can reach us at
 
 
 
Mailing address
 
c/o Greenest City
 
220 Cowan Avenue
 
Toronto, Ontario
 
M6K 2N6
 
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Questions?
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Mailing address
c/o Greenest City
220 Cowan Avenue
Toronto, Ontario
M6K 2N6
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220 Cowan Avenue
Toronto, Ontario
M6K 2N6
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Leah Bobet <le...@leahbobet.com>: Jun 11 08:01PM -0400

Hi, Rhonda—
 

 
Thanks for the reply.
 

 
Unfortunately, looks like there’s a misunderstanding here: I’m not asking an information question about how to do basic media literacy, but raising a rather specific question about how this list is moderated—one which arose from the conversation in this thread. So the solution I’m looking for isn’t shaped like advice from a teacher to a student on what corporations do, it’s shaped like a moderator team clarifying their policies on potential knowledge extraction within the list membership and perhaps taking associated actions.
 

 
If it’s truly unclear what I’m asking above, please let me know where it’s going off the rails for you and I’ll happily clarify.
 

 
Thanks,
 

 
Leah Bobet
 
--
 
Copy, editorial, and consulting :: <mailto:leah@leahbobet.com> le...@leahbobet.com
 

 

 

 
From: Rhonda Teitel-Payne <rho...@torontourbangrowers.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2026 7:01 PM
To: leah <le...@leahbobet.com>
Cc: Toronto Urban Growers <toronto-ur...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Toronto Urban Growers] AI Farming
 

 
Good question, Leah. I suggest taking a closer look at Google's privacy policy about how they use data. Perhaps someone on the list has an answer for this.
 

 
Personally, I try to be careful about putting anything into an email that I wouldn't want the world to see and use. You never know when your messages might be forwarded or scooped by malware.
 

 
Rhonda
 

 

 
Rhonda Teitel-Payne (she/her)
 
Co-coordinator
 
Toronto Urban Growers
 
www.torontourbangrowers.org <http://www.torontourbangrowers.org>
 

 
@TOurbangrowers #iGrowTO
 

 

 

 

 

 
From: Leah Bobet <le...@leahbobet.com <mailto:leah@leahbobet.com> >
To: "Toronto Urban Growers"<toronto-ur...@googlegroups.com <mailto:toronto-urban-growers@googlegroups.com> >
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2026 14:50:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [Toronto Urban Growers] AI Farming
 

 
So I'm afraid this is raising an uncomfortable practical question: Are messages from this list currently being harvested for "feedback" on someone's monetized, privately-owned product?
 

 
Yes, the Internet is inevitably public in the end, but if we're in a situation where community expertise and assistance is being fed into someone's pre-launch IP without consent, that does change what I'm able to discuss here.
 

 
I've got pre-print research to think about, but also the commitments I made to people who were good enough to discuss their practices with me (confidentiality, public good, building community capacity). If I share aspects of practice here, in a community-building setting and within my ethics guidelines, am I going to be breaking my word to my participants because someone's sitting in the back feeding it into their AI product?
 

 
Thanks,
 

 

 
Leah Bobet
 
On Thursday, June 11, 2026 at 11:36:11 AM UTC-4 karen....@gmail.com <mailto:karen....@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Artificial intelligence as it currently exists is the aggregation of human knowledge and writing taken without permission and monetized. Toronto urban growers and the networks Sean mentioned are community intelligence -- that is more alive and empowering than any large language model or image generation platform being sold to us.
 

 

 
I love this network precisely because it represents the antithesis of big tech and ai — community!
 

 
(Em-dashers unite!)
 

 

 

 

 
On Thu, Jun 11, 2026 at 10:50 Nat Karpovskaia <n...@notfarfromthetree.org <mailto:n...@notfarfromthetree.org> > wrote:
 
Enthusiastic users of the em dash prior to AI, unite!!
 

 
Nat Karpovskaia (they/them pronouns)
 
Program Manager
 
Call or text: (416) 658-0724
 

 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org/> www.notfarfromthetree.org
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Instagram • Facebook • Newsletter
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> On Thu, Jun 11, 2026 at 10:45 AM Rhonda Teitel-Payne <rho...@torontourbangrowers.org> wrote:
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Thanks Sean and others for your thoughts - and Sean for the shout out to some of the pillars of our community! The fact that you folks took the time to review the video and share your thoughts at a busy time of year is one reason this network works.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> I'm sure the feedback is valuable for Mohammad and his team, but it's also important for Joe, James and I to know where our community stands on these issues.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Just a reminder, the hand of the moderators on this list is quite light. We do our best to limit spam and abusive posts, but we don't review or endorse every project that is posted.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Although I must say that our "intelligence" is anything but artificial - it's as organic as it gets!
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> And yes, I'm reclaiming the m-dash from AI
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Thanks,
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Rhonda
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Rhonda Teitel-Payne (she/her)
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Co-coordinator
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Toronto Urban Growers
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> www.torontourbangrowers.org
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> @TOurbangrowers #iGrowTO
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> From: Maria Nunes <mdcnpro...@gmail.com>
To: <se...@crookedfarmz.net>
Cc: "Toronto Urban Growers"<toronto-ur...@googlegroups.com>, "AI Farming"<in...@aifarming.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2026 17:14:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [Toronto Urban Growers] AI Farming
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Good grief! I decided not to speak my mind when I saw the email. I hadn't even seen the video until I read your response. Now that I have, I repeat... good grief.... And thank you for laying bare the very sad depths to which technology can bury the knowledge and wisdom of experience.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Imagine anyone actually depending on this tool alone assuming there wasn't a real person to learn from?
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> On Wed, Jun 10, 2026, 9:20 a.m. Sean Smith <se...@crookedfarmz.net> wrote:
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Dear all,
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> I really do recommend watching the video, with particular attention to 0:53-0:58 on the timeline.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cZyP_6-GJ5cz7Ij3-nf4EP-cD6VXTgRQ/view
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> If the AI that generated the video --- which plants about 60 of what look like cantaloupe seeds in a 3-inch hole --- represents an AI package that "empowers" urban growers to grow better, is that really the support you need?
 
Toronto Urban Growers is already an "artificial intelligence" for urban vegetable growers here in the city, with context-specific local knowledge.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> You know who empowers garden design? BUFCO, Garden Daddy, and I could go on.
 
You know who empowers seed access? Urban Harvest, Toronto Seed Library, Seedy Saturdays, and I could go on.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> You know who empowers problem solving? The Toronto Gardeners Facebook group, your local Nonna who's been growing tomatoes for 6 decades, and I could go on.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Johanne Daoust and Jose Dadural have forgotten more about growing in containers in the city than most of us have ever learned.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Homestead.TO, Foodshare, and Thorncliffe Park Urban Farmers will teach you everything you need to know about urban growing and then some.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Somehow, however, you are supposed to not understand what powdery mildew is, yet at the same time grow enough surplus in your backyard to sell to markets without this basic knowledge. Guess what? Withrow Park Farmers Market already allows you to do this with their urban growers program, and I could go on.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> I am not as anti-AI as many are. In fact, I offer workshops specifically for small-scale farmers to use AI to *empower themselves*. This "app" is not it, though. It is a top-down solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
 
Toronto Urban Growers is already an artificial intelligence, though. Horizontal. See you at Toronto Urban Ag Week in September.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Rant over.
Sean
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Crooked Farmz
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Brewing fresh compost teas and extracts for microbial health
in agriculture, horticulture and arboriculture.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> crookedfarmz.net // @crookedfarmz // 416.669.1997
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> We Must Heal The Soil. It's That Simple.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Crooked Farmz is a Certified Compost Facility Operator
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> with the Compost Council of Canada.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> On Tuesday, June 9, 2026 at 07:21:38 a.m. EDT, AI Farming <in...@aifarming.ca> wrote:
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> Hello Toronto Urban Grower,
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> My name is Mohammad Monzur Murshed Khan, Chief Executive Officer of AI Farming Inc., a Canadian agri-technology startup dedicated to empowering urban and small-scale farmers through artificial intelligence.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> AI Farming has developed an AI-powered crop management platform for urban, backyard, indoor, and small-scale farming. The platform supports growers from seed planting to harvest with real-time guidance based on local weather, location, crop requirements, and agronomic best practices.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> A key feature of our platform is its integrated community marketplace, which enables growers to connect with local buyers and sellers, market and sell fresh produce, and access seeds, supplies, and other agricultural inputs through a trusted local network.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> For your reference, we have attached below a PowerPoint presentation drive link outlining our platform and its key features.
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org>
 
<http://www.notfarfromthetree.org> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Jxd2U2PfZ-Msb98epw6AEWEZyK6uMo4V/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=109641413311159338883&rtpof=true&sd=true
 
AI Farming Inc. is pleased to announce that its commercial soft launch is scheduled for July 1, 2026, with the official public launch planned for September 17, 2026. The launch event, organized in collaboration with Spark Centre, is tentatively expected to be held at Durham College in Ontario’s Durham Region. Further details will be communicated as they become available. It would be a privilege to welcome you as our guest at this important occasion.
 
More information about our platform is available at:
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cZyP_6-GJ5cz7Ij3-nf4EP-cD6VXTgRQ/view
 
We would be pleased to have you or a representative from your organization attend this public inauguration event. To include you in our official invitation list and prepare your invitation letter, kindly provide your contact details at your earliest convenience.
 
I would welcome an opportunity to discuss potential collaboration and areas of mutual interest.
 
Kind regards,
 
Mohammad Monzur Murshed Khan
Chief Executive Officer
AI Farming Inc.
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Phone: +1 437-775-7309
e-mail: in...@aifarming.ca
Website: www.aifarming.ca
 
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