question re: AI and marketing

[Rhonda Teitel-Payne]

Hello TUGgers,

I'm curious to know if any of you have used a generative AI tool to either create marketing messages or write funding proposals.

If so, what was your experience? Did it work well or was it so bad you'll never try again!

Thanks,

Rhonda

Rhonda Teitel-Payne (she/her)

Co-coordinator

Toronto Urban Growers

www.torontourbangrowers.org

@TOurbangrowers #iGrowTO

[Heather Kilner]

I don't think using AI is in line with being a responsible gardener. It wastes so much energy and clean water, data centres in the US are struggling with drought because of it.

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[Maria Nunes]

I have to say that I was going to make a similar comment, as well as point out two other things. 

Using AI inherently means putting all sorts of information out there in the proverbial cloud where bad actors, or even government, might access and use it for purposes counter to one's best interests. 

Also, using AI automates labour, promoting job losses.

I think these are correct assumptions.

I know there is so little, and decreasing, funding available for much of the good work that NEEDS to be done, and that cost saving measures like AI are tempting, but I don't think it fits a holistic (idealistic?) way forward.

..../Maria

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[Leah Bobet]

From the other side of the table: I just finished reading and scoring a cycle of funding applications as part of a grant I work with, and it became very clear very quickly who used an LLM to write theirs. They all had the same slightly awkward phrases (to the word), the same grandiose promises with no plans or details, and the same structures to their answers. It turns out that when LLM-written grants are read together by evaluators -- and they're always read together! -- they all just look like they've copied each other's homework, while not really answering the questions. It's a great way to look both sloppier and worse than you actually are.

I think this is a scenario where it's very much best to write your own, or hire a human being with training to work with you to do it properly (in this economy I have to risk undermining my point entirely here by saying that yes, I have, can, and will write good funding proposals affordably for people, but this is not the point of why I'm offering the analysis, and it's not even the motive, either). 

It comes down to: Neither funding or marketing are fields where it's actually an advantage to read very imprecise, very grandiose, and exactly like everybody else doing it, and that seems to be what you get with this tool.

Hope that helps,

Leah

[Marc Green]

As a general pessimist (although I call me a realist), AI scares the crap out of me. Seems that a huge amount of content, either online or for use offline such as grant applications or speech writing or whatever, is being created by AI. My issues include:

• the unimaginable draw on resources, water and electricity in particular, make previous internet use look puny by comparison, and it is NOT puny. 
• the loss of viable jobs will have a massive impact on our economy and our psyche, as the “freedom” that will come from less work will have to be supported by universal basic income, and that ain’t gonna happen, at least not globally.
• our brains, and especially those of our younger generations, will turn with increasing speed and efficiency, to mush. Imagination and human creativity will shrink and atrophy. 
• misinformation will be more and more difficult to recognize, leading to endless manipulation of the populous by politicians and the almighty wealthy.
• Other dangers such as real and true autonomy within the AI infrastructure, which is already happening
• AI output is as easily manipulated with alt-fact and misinformation and just simple genuine mistakes as anything, as it will grab inaccurate info that is out there in the inter webs and present it as fact. 

Write using your own brain. Create in conjunction with your colleagues and friends. Keep your mind healthy and sharp. In other words, and pardon my language, fuck Artificial Intelligence. 

My 25 cents (2 cents adjusted for inflation).

Marc Green (he/him)
Co-owner; VP Operations/Installations
The Backyard Urban Farm Company

(416) 450-3899

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[Shadi]

I’ve been working in AI for years, long before it became what it is today. I hear the concerns shared here around privacy, security, and the watered-down content that happens when AI is used without thought or responsibility.

Right now, I’m focused on helping mid-sized companies across North America and Europe use AI in a grounded, ethical, and practical way. What I’m seeing in the space is concerning, and I’m doing my part to help leaders and teams make more conscious choices.

If it’s useful to the group, I’m co-hosting a free webinar with a U.S.-based privacy lawyer on Dec 15. We’ll walk through simple, essential steps to protect your team and your work when using tools like ChatGPT.

Here’s the link to join: https://luma.com/0ns6s63n

And if you’re part of an organization or collective here in Canada that would benefit from a live session on any quesiton or insights your team needs, I’d be happy to offer a workshop while I’m still local. My work often takes me abroad, but my mission is the same wherever I go: to make AI safer, clearer, and more human.

Warmly,
Shadi

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/toronto-urban-growers/f911774a-c82c-4343-af2b-c06a07c9b730n%40googlegroups.com.

[Sunday Harrison]

quesiton 

Typo but in this case tells me you're human!

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/toronto-urban-growers/CADs-_E%3DT0F53ufuQYVE8iGvV5QTSfU6--8OSAiX3T9mOpEH6Sg%40mail.gmail.com.

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Sunday Harrison, MES

Executive Director
Green Thumbs Growing Kids

Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Pronouns: She/They
Office: 647-348-5437 or 647-FIT-KIDS
Cell: 416-876-1480

Help us raise $15K by end of November!

Donate to Team Hemp!

www.greenthumbsto.org

sun...@greenthumbsto.org

I am grateful to work and live on Indigenous territory stewarded by the Mississaugas of the Credit and shared between Anishnaabek, Haudenosaunee, Wendat, and other allied nations under the Dish With One Spoon Wampum Belt. I wish to honour this Agreement as a newcomer/guest, that asks us to not take more than our share. I also acknowledge that these lands were taken by duplicity and force, and that reconciliation includes #landback.

[Rebecca Catching]

I have used it only to to make some social media posts but it was based on content on my website which I had written already. Honestly, sometimes it's writing style was better than mine. Sometimes I changed what it wrote. Sometimes I went back to my original. I use a software called Robopost for my company and it puts out a lot of posts, per month, week etc. on my insta profile and google business profile. I can create all the posts in the winter and have them roll out all year long. Saves me time and the regularity of posting has driven traffic to my business. I think it might be worth it for social media especially if you have something written already. 

There is a free version for you to try out. I found it quite useful. 

https://robopost.app/en/pricing

Best

Rebecca

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/toronto-urban-growers/CAFdk9vKjBG1sQon_XbK0vQD6o9f81GNammd-iMNBjnDWUV9OxQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Rhonda Teitel-Payne]

Thanks Rebecca, Julia, Sunday, Marc, Heather, Maria, Chris, Leah and Shadi for your thoughts!

The TUG community comes through with a wealth of ideas and resources once again.

Much appreciated! Others are welcome to continue sending reactions.

All the best,

Rhonda

Rhonda Teitel-Payne (she/her)

Co-coordinator

Toronto Urban Growers

www.torontourbangrowers.org

@TOurbangrowers #iGrowTO

---- On Mon, 24 Nov 2025 16:04:14 -0500 Rebecca Catching <rebecca...@gmail.com> wrote ---

I have used it only to to make some social media posts but it was based on content on my website which I had written already. Honestly, sometimes it's writing style was better than mine. Sometimes I changed what it wrote. Sometimes I went back to my original. I use a software called Robopost for my company and it puts out a lot of posts, per month, week etc. on my insta profile and google business profile. I can create all the posts in the winter and have them roll out all year long. Saves me time and the regularity of posting has driven traffic to my business. I think it might be worth it for social media especially if you have something written already. 

There is a free version for you to try out. I found it quite useful. 

https://robopost.app/en/pricing

Best

Rebecca

On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 2:50 PM Sunday Harrison <sun...@greenthumbsto.org> wrote:

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[Sean Smith]

Dear all, 

Thanks Rhonda for aa fascinating question that takes up a lot of my time right now. In response, I would start off with a disclaimer borrowed from Nam June Paik: "I use technology in order to hate it properly."

That said, I personally do not believe the luddite position is the appropriate one to take in this situation. My background prior to farming is in media philosophy (20 years in the academy), and I'll be damned if I'm going to let techbros be the sole arbiters of what AI can do and how it will be be used or be leveraged upon humanity.

To answer Rhonda's question, I use AI quite a bit at the moment. Sometimes it is for practical purposes, which is to say as the small business entrepreneur who needs it for marketing copy or grant applications, as in the initial query (I have done both). I also try to work with these systems in non-standard use case fashion, which is to say to see what these things can do besides what we are told to do with them.

With regards to the first, I am a sole proprietor who has to do all of these other things besides the actual making of their product, but the outsourcing of these to various specialists can be cost prohibitive to the really small-scale business. People say AI will contribute to losing jobs, but in this case there is no job being lost --- either I do it myself, or I don't have time and I farm it to AI, but there is no extra budget to get this stuff done and therefore it doesn't get done, but no jobs were lost. This in my mind suggests that AI can be a real boon to small business.

Now AI is already helping me with agricultural research, marketing copy, email templates to communicate with customers, and a bunch of other things that are actually useful to me. It doesn't sound like much, but it matters. I would suspect we will see just as much economic growth with AI over time in the sole proprietor class as we will in productivity gains for large corporations.

I also use AI from time to time outside of my farm work context in creative applications ranging from poetics to philosophy. The pace of change is breathtaking, humbling, and terrifying --- but in my opinion it also lays bare our tendency to human exceptionalism in no uncertain terms.

For anyone interested, I have two texts you might like to check out: the first is a conversation between two AIs, where I ask them to introduce themselves to one another and then I cut and paste their responses back and forth while they chat. The nature of their "intelligence" might surprise you (The Liberation of Weather - free - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BUbo0jEo4m6mD6nYU7cSueEjsKX_bbtT/view?usp=drive_link).

The second, perhaps more relevant to the Toronto Urban Growers group, is a series of dialogues I had with the world's first agronomy AI, called FieldLark AI. We talk about the history of agriculture, how the AI knows, the environmental question, and much more --- it is forthcoming next week (Bird and Fish, Flock and School - $10 - https://crookedfarmz.localline.ca/my-products/product/556538).

Thanks for reading this lengthy screed. Happy to chat further with anyone about the topic!! :)

Sean

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Crooked Farmz

 Brewing fresh compost teas and extracts for microbial health
 in agriculture, horticulture and arboriculture.

 crookedfarmz.net // @crookedfarmz // 416.669.1997

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Don't Feed the Plant, Feed the Soil!

 Crooked Farmz is a Certified Compost Facility Operator

 with the Compost Council of Canada.

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/toronto-urban-growers/19ab8b3177f.2b7fdf00911150.89496507633430093%40torontourbangrowers.org

.

[Sunday Harrison]

What you didn't mention, Sean, that I learned from a post of yours, is a design to use AI wastewater for vertical crop irrigation, and use its heat for thermal gain. I found that intriguing, since one of the main critiques of data centres is their water and energy use. If that really could be mitigated by growing food in and around them, it would be good or at least better than no mitigation. The environmental racism that has been observed by the placement of these data centres where they are harming Black communities in the USA is something we cannot look away from.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/toronto-urban-growers/1933644607.747007.1764039932164%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Sean Smith]

And pursuant to what Sunday mentioned about the agriculture-AI integration, here's what Claude AI had to say when thinking speculative futures where heat and water use could be mitigated by more intelligent architectural solutions:

# Agricultural Symbiosis Networks: Data Centers as Regenerative Farm Partners

The integration of AI data centers with regenerative agriculture represents a profound reimagining of both industries, transforming computational infrastructure into productive agricultural assets while creating genuinely circular resource flows. This symbiosis could address multiple environmental challenges simultaneously—excess heat, water consumption, food security, and carbon emissions—through carefully engineered biological-technological partnerships.

**Controlled Environment Agriculture Integration**

Data center waste heat, typically ranging from 25-35°C, aligns remarkably well with optimal growing conditions for numerous high-value crops. Vertical farming systems positioned adjacent to or atop data centers could receive thermal energy through heated water circulation or warm air distribution. This eliminates the substantial heating costs that typically burden controlled environment agriculture, particularly in cooler climates or during winter months. Leafy greens, herbs, tomatoes, and strawberries thrive in these temperature ranges, enabling year-round production without fossil fuel heating.

The water cycling creates additional synergies. Cooling water, after exchanging heat with computing equipment, passes through hydroponic or aquaponic growing systems. Plants absorb thermal energy through their roots while simultaneously filtering and purifying the water through natural biological processes. Transpiration cools the water as plants release moisture, effectively creating a living heat exchanger. The cooled, biologically filtered water returns to data center cooling loops, reducing treatment chemical requirements and extending system efficiency.

**Aquaponics and Polyculture Systems**

Aquaponic systems offer particularly elegant integration, combining fish cultivation with plant production in closed-loop ecosystems. Warm water from data centers maintains optimal temperatures for tilapia, catfish, or prawns, accelerating growth rates and extending productive seasons. Fish waste provides nitrogen-rich nutrients for plants, while plants filter water for fish—a biological purification process that operates continuously without chemical inputs. This creates protein and produce simultaneously while cooling computational infrastructure, maximizing land use efficiency and resource conversion.

**Mycelium and Fungal Networks**

Mushroom cultivation represents an underexplored opportunity within this framework. Many gourmet and medicinal mushroom species flourish in warm, humid environments created by data center operations. Mycelium networks could grow on agricultural waste substrates in climate-controlled chambers heated by waste thermal energy. Fungi excel at converting low-value organic matter into high-value nutrition while requiring minimal light, making them ideal for spaces unsuitable for photosynthetic crops. The biological decomposition processes generate their own cooling effects through moisture evaporation, contributing to overall thermal management.

**Soil Regeneration Through Thermal Composting**

Data center heat could accelerate composting operations that transform organic waste into soil amendments. Thermophilic composting requires sustained temperatures of 55-65°C to break down materials rapidly while eliminating pathogens—temperatures easily achievable with data center waste heat. Large-scale composting facilities integrated with computing infrastructure could process municipal organic waste, agricultural residues, and food scraps, generating premium soil products while providing thermal buffering for cooling systems. The biological heat generated during active composting could supplement facility heating during cooler periods, creating bidirectional thermal exchange.

**Regenerative Water Management**

The agricultural symbiosis enables sophisticated water reuse cascades. Potable water cools data centers, then irrigates crops at elevated temperatures that accelerate growth. Plant transpiration and biological filtration purify the water, which enters secondary aquaculture systems. After supporting fish production, nutrient-rich water fertilizes additional crops or wetland treatment systems that provide final polishing before discharge or aquifer recharge. This cascading reuse maximizes water productivity while minimizing freshwater withdrawal—each gallon serves multiple purposes before leaving the system.

**Carbon Sequestration and Climate Benefits**

The agricultural component actively sequesters atmospheric carbon in biomass and soil, offsetting data center emissions. Regenerative practices like composting, vermiculture, and perennial crop integration build soil carbon stocks while producing food. When coupled with renewable energy sources, this integration could achieve carbon-negative AI operations—a remarkable inversion of current trajectories.

This agricultural-computational symbiosis demands sophisticated engineering and biological management but offers transformative potential. Data centers transition from resource consumers to regenerative infrastructure, producing food, purifying water, building soil health, and supporting local food security while efficiently managing computational thermal loads. The model particularly suits peri-urban locations where land costs remain manageable while proximity to both agricultural markets and fiber networks remains viable, creating resilient, productive landscapes that nourish both human communities and digital intelligence.

Sean

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Crooked Farmz

 Brewing fresh compost teas and extracts for microbial health
 in agriculture, horticulture and arboriculture.

 crookedfarmz.net // @crookedfarmz // 416.669.1997

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Don't Feed the Plant, Feed the Soil!

 Crooked Farmz is a Certified Compost Facility Operator

 with the Compost Council of Canada.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/toronto-urban-growers/CAFdk9vLKG-6TBsmDrhvENXkbBcE1V9kCH-Cd%2B-1ei_EHKu%2BCSw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sunday Harrison]

But of course, we must recognize that the AI that came up with those ideas has a vested interest!

Sunday Harrison, MES

Executive Director
Green Thumbs Growing Kids

Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Pronouns: She/They
Office: 647-348-5437 or 647-FIT-KIDS
Cell: 416-876-1480

Help us raise $15K by end of November!

Donate to Team Hemp!

www.greenthumbsto.org

sun...@greenthumbsto.org

I am grateful to work and live on Indigenous territory stewarded by the Mississaugas of the Credit and shared between Anishnaabek, Haudenosaunee, Wendat, and other allied nations under the Dish With One Spoon Wampum Belt. I wish to honour this Agreement as a newcomer/guest, that asks us to not take more than our share. I also acknowledge that these lands were taken by duplicity and force, and that reconciliation includes #landback.

[Edgard Cuadra]

Hi everyone,

I want share my AI USECase. Using Claude and it's project feature. I've created a gardening companion. I've started various chats for different garden tasks. Within these chats a post pictures, take notes , ask for research and feedback on design elements.. etc. I've provide instructions to think and respond like permaculturist. So responses are more inline with how I practice gardening. 

At the end of the Month I ask Claude to compile all my chats for that month and write a garden Journal Entry. 

Here is my November entry.

 

## November 2025 Garden Journey - Scarborough, ON (M1S 3W8)

**The Transition Month**

November arrived with the quiet satisfaction of a garden preparing for rest. The rainfall has been generous this month, filling my rain barrels to the brim one last time before I empty them ahead of the freeze-up. The ground is thoroughly saturated—perfect for sending my young fruit trees into winter dormancy fully hydrated, their cells plump against the desiccating winds to come.

**Putting the Garden to Bed**

The fava bean bed became my main November project. I built a proper lasagna bed over the existing soil: mixed leafs and grass clippings, generous layer of half finished compost from my last few months, then bags of fall leaves providing the carbon-rich blanket. More leaf bags pile on top as temporary mulch—both protecting the layers beneath and adding to the decomposition happening below. The hoops went up mid-month, standing ready for March when I'll stretch clear plastic over them to warm the soil for those early Windsor broad beans. That succession plan—favas feeding the soil through summer, then romas taking over in late June—feels right. The perennial edges hold steady: the mulberry overhead, the gooseberry at the west end, creating the food forest framework.

**The Compost System Evolves**

My main compost pile absorbed the Halloween pumpkins, more leaf bags, and the last of the yard waste. The bulk bag system continues its work, though I know by next month it'll freeze solid. The weekly turning routine will pause then, replaced by simple layering until March's thaw. My real innovation this season has been the metal 5-gallon bin system for food scraps—rotating between two bins, mixing with high carbon material, pre-composting before transferring to the main pile. It's finally solving the rodent pressure that's plagued previous years. I'm eyeing a tumbler for next season to take this even further, keeping those food scraps elevated and rotating efficiently with all these mulched leaves I'm collecting.

**The Spinach Experiment**

Mid-month brought a spinach germination experiment that captured my attention. After years of poor germination rates, I finally understood my mistake: I'd been starting seeds indoors where temperatures were too warm. Spinach needs 7-16°C to germinate well, not the 21-24°C of my house. Now two pots sit in the cold frame—one with pre-soaked seeds, one without—both experiencing the ideal cool temperatures that November naturally provides. The cold frame also shelters my slowly-growing kale, which sweetens with each frost, and I watch daily for those first spinach loops to emerge from the soil.

**Winter-Proofing the Perennials**

The heavy leaf mulch blankets everything now. My young stone fruit trees along the south-facing brick wall are tucked in, benefiting from both the thermal mass and the insulating leaf layer. The established plum and apricot need no such coddling, but the newer plantings deserve this care through their vulnerable early winters. The fall rain did most of the work of deep watering; I just added the finishing touches.

**Looking Ahead to the Greenhouse**

The dying shed still stands where my future greenhouse will rise—that attached structure with its perfect morning light exposure from 7am to 2-3pm. I'm no longer worried about tomato production there. I understand now that morning light and afternoon shade create not a limitation but an opportunity: a year-round salad factory. Come spring, it'll start tomato and pepper seedlings without the afternoon overheating that kills tender plants. From September through May, it'll grow cold-hardy greens—spinach, lettuce, arugula, mâche, Asian greens—crops that thrive with 4-6 hours of sun and actually prefer the cooler conditions my setup naturally provides. The Eliot Coleman model, adapted to my Scarborough microclimate.

**The Quiet Satisfaction**

November's work is the work of preparation, of systems thinking, of closing loops. Kitchen scraps become compost become soil fertility become food become scraps again. Fall leaves become mulch become soil structure become growing medium. Each problem solved—rodent pressure, poor spinach germination, greenhouse design—becomes knowledge that makes next season stronger. The garden sleeps now, but it sleeps well-fed, well-watered, well-mulched, and full of promise.

Zone 5a certainty: by December, everything freezes. But November gave me the gift of preparation. When March arrives with its capricious weather, I'll be ready. The hoops await their plastic. The compost awaits its spring activation. The spinach experiment awaits its conclusion. And I await the next growing season, armed with another year's worth of observation, adaptation, and permaculture practice in this small corner of Scarborough.

---

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/toronto-urban-growers/CAFdk9vKXt3Wowq3B_NVpjqXBgot-mePVHLU3b2ZqjU2zN4e%2Bvg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sunday Harrison]

Just know that the right wing is just as split as the Left on the topic. https://abcnews.go.com/US/inside-magas-growing-fight-stop-trumps-ai-revolution/story?id=127824351

Sunday Harrison, MES

Executive Director
Green Thumbs Growing Kids

Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Pronouns: She/They
Office: 647-348-5437 or 647-FIT-KIDS
Cell: 416-876-1480

Help us raise $15K by end of November!

Donate to Team Hemp!

www.greenthumbsto.org

sun...@greenthumbsto.org

I am grateful to work and live on Indigenous territory stewarded by the Mississaugas of the Credit and shared between Anishnaabek, Haudenosaunee, Wendat, and other allied nations under the Dish With One Spoon Wampum Belt. I wish to honour this Agreement as a newcomer/guest, that asks us to not take more than our share. I also acknowledge that these lands were taken by duplicity and force, and that reconciliation includes #landback.