India's crumbling 'Silicon Valley' losing its lustre

2 views
Skip to first unread message

Sanjit

unread,
Aug 18, 2004, 9:20:07 AM8/18/04
to
Tue Aug 17, 1:17 PM ET Add Technology - AFP to My Yahoo!

BANGALORE, India (AFP) - The success of India's hi-tech and
outsourcing industry was built on Bangalore, but the southern city
where the boom began has now become a victim of its own success.

New PC? No Problem!
Get old files onto a new PC. Plus, how to buy a new computer, and
ditch your old one.

The rapid growth is putting major pressure on the city's already
congested roads and software firms complain that acute power cuts are
taking a toll on business.

According to the Software Technology Parks of India, which facilitates
hi-tech exports, 284 technology firms have set up base in the "Silicon
Valley" of India over the last two years taking the total to 1,322.

"We all believe that the infrastructure problem is serious here. To
sustain and grow, we need to go to places where there are
opportunities -- both manpower and infrastructure," said Azim Premji,
the chief of Wipro, India's third largest software exporter.

"We have not seen any infrastructure growth in the last five years in
Bangalore and we do not foresee any growth in the next five years. It
is difficult to sustain in Bangalore," said Premji, who is India's
richest person.

He said Wipro, of which he owns 84 percent, was looking to expand not
in Bangalore but in other Indian cities that have tried to woo IT
including Hyderabad in the south, Pune in the west, the capital New
Delhi and eastern metropolis of Calcutta.

Karnataka, the state of which Bangalore is capital, is still growing
with a 46 percent jump in software exports in the last fiscal year due
to burgeoning outsourcing by Western companies.

At four billion dollars last year, Karnataka's software exports
account for one-third of the total across India.

Infrastructure was a key factor in bringing IT firms to Bangalore,
along with its huge pool of English-speaking engineering graduates and
mild hillside climate that offers respite from India's sweaty summers.

Since 1985 when Texas Instruments became the first multinational firm
to set up a hi-tech development centre in Bangalore, the trappings of
luxury such as restaurants, pubs and upscale boutiques have sprouted
up in the city.

But the wealth has come at a price. In a city of six million people,
the narrow roads and bylanes are packed by two million registered
vehicles. Last year 886 people died in traffic accidents.

Transport department officials said between 600 and 700 vehicles were
registered daily.

To add to the woes, Karnataka has a power shortage of 1,500 megawatts
-- which officials said could grow to between 3,000 and 4,000
megawatts in the next five years if the rapid growth continues.

"There is no doubt infrastructure has worsened over the last three
years," said Avinash Vashistha, managing director of NeoIT, an
outsourcing and software development firm here. "Bangalore is not a
desirable place to live anymore."

He said living costs were also being driven up by a shortage of hotels
and quality apartments.

"As far as outsourcing is concerned we are asking our clients to look
at other cities either in Karnataka or outside. I am scared about the
situation three years down the road, leave alone 10 years," Vashistha
told AFP.

"What they (the government) do right now may well fall short of the
ongoing growth Bangalore may see," he said.

But the administration may have other priorities. The state government
was voted out of power this year amid feelings that both Bangalore and
New Delhi had neglected debt-ridden farmers in other parts of
Karnataka as it championed IT.

Karnataka's new leader, Chief Minister Dharam Singh, has promised the
industry that his government would take up infrastructure issues in
Bangalore on an urgent basis.

Industrialists said they were not asking the government to ignore the
poor -- but wanted more concrete planning to manage Bangalore's
growth.

"We are not asking for the betterment of Bangalore at the expense of
rural areas," said Sridhar Mitta, president outsourcing firm e4e
India.

But he added: "Today one gets the impression that Bangalore is going
to be abandoned in terms of infrastructure and that is not right."

John

unread,
Aug 19, 2004, 10:46:49 AM8/19/04
to
Fuck IT in India, that is what they get for stealing all our IT jobs.
That is what they get for biting off more than they can chew.

I feel no pitty for the service infrastructure down there. Furthermore
I find it disgusting that the IT people would even ponder asking their
government to redirect resources from the poor to assist them in
stealing more IT jobs from other countries.

Perhaps the government needs to tax the shit out of the IT
professionals in India to pay for the infrastructure they request.
Then lets see if they maintain their competitive edge over other
countries.

I hope your fears that the Bangalore infrastructure will be abandoned
come true.


sanj...@hotmail.com (Sanjit) wrote in message news:<75b5b7cf.04081...@posting.google.com>...

Christopher Browne

unread,
Aug 19, 2004, 10:22:53 PM8/19/04
to
After takin a swig o' Arrakan spice grog, john_...@hotmail.com (John) belched out:

> I hope your fears that the Bangalore infrastructure will be abandoned
> come true.

You're missing the point.

People have been (stupidly) imagining that _all_ IT jobs would migrate
to Bangalore.

The point is that this demonstrates that there _is_ a "push-back."

There are some clear and evident past "excesses" of the IT industry:

- There's the arrogance of the executives at Nortel and JDS Uniphase,
who committed their companies to _huge_ growth on the basis of
"bubbles;"

- The industry was _filled_ with ignoramuses that got themselves into
fat contracts when Y2K work combined with simultaneous growth of
Internet-related activity.

- People saw a few Internet businesses do very well, and started
imagining that VC companies _weren't_ incredibly risky.

The troubles that Nortel fell into? Richly deserved, just like the
troubles of the cellular companies that all pushed on on the basis
that they would each be the single "winner" that would control their
industry.

They have gotten gored more heavily by being "Bangalored" than they
perhaps deserved, but a "great fall" was certainly in the cards.

We're now seeing the inevitable "reversal;" when jobs head to India,
it is natural for things to get more expensive there, and for the
"outsourcing" activities to occupy the more qualified people, becoming
uneconomic as they have to start using those that are not as
well-qualified.
--
wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','cbbrowne.com').
http://cbbrowne.com/info/
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

John

unread,
Aug 20, 2004, 11:05:12 AM8/20/04
to
Chris;

No Arrakan spice grog here. Your comments are correct, there was a
bubble during Y2K and .COM VC startups. Now the bubble is gone, yes
shit happens (someone moved our cheese). I still think we IT
professionals have a right to be pissed when companies cut thousands
of employees in North America and then outsource to India, not to save
the company, but to increase profits (usually to get their big
bonuses). While financially sound and legal, the ethics stink.

Lets also not forget the government, who hearded tens of thousands of
people through computer training with the promise of employment. Now
where are the jobs? Ok so they wanted to avoid the Y2K crunch,
retirement replacement, general growth and keep rates low. Well then
why doesn't the government pay for thousands of people to go through
law school. I think $300/hr is excessive. I think these rates need to
be lowered by balanacing supply and demand. You will never see it
happen. Why? These are the things that piss me off.

It is the same thing that happened years ago when Adidas and other
clothing manufactures opened sweat shops in third world countries to
increase profits. Everyone was outraged and boycoted these
manufactures. Now it has happened to IT and no one cares.

I am not pissed off at the IT people in India. If I were them I would
take the opportunity too. I feel sorry for the poor people who do not
have the skills to take on an IT job in India, but are negatively
affected by the results of it. Congestion, loss of power, diverted
funds, etc... I also feel sorry for the IT people in North America who
have spent years training and now have been out of work for months or
years. These people who have bought houses and lost them. These people
who have saved for their kids education and their own retirement and
now these fund are being used to survive.

I am pissed off at the companies who cut back North American workers
and outsource for profit. I am pissed off and the short sighted and
career predjudice government.

Perhaps I do need a swig of your Arrakan spice grog.

John

Christopher Browne <cbbr...@acm.org> wrote in message news:<2ol5jsF...@uni-berlin.de>...

kmor...@netexecutive.com

unread,
Dec 29, 2004, 12:50:07 PM12/29/04
to
Don't get me wrong, as a person I feel absolutely terrible about what
happened in India over the past few days. As a jaded IT job seeker on
the other hand, I feel God has a way of getting back at people who try
and steal the livelyhood of others. This will put a big wrench in
India's IT infrastructure and a few other areas that were hit. I guess
a few fat corrupt IT executives in North America will miss their
software project delivery dates. Tee hee.

Shine up your resumes boys, the jobs are a commin' back...

Before you think of flaming me, sit back and think for a second. You
are obviously here cause you are looking for a job. Many of you in IT
have been looking for work for months if not over a year. We all know
where the work is going. When you can't afford to provide for your
family, if you have to sell your house you worked so hard for or if
your marriage of years has broken up because of financial stress you
can't tell me that even though as a good person you feel bad, you don't
also feel a sense of "serves you right". Just realize, the only
difference between you and I is I am bold enough to state how we all
feel.

Ken

kalathiparambil

unread,
Dec 29, 2004, 5:52:15 PM12/29/04
to
"God has a way of getting back at people...?" you're an idiot.

<kmor...@netexecutive.com> wrote in message
news:1104342607.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Christopher Browne

unread,
Dec 29, 2004, 9:49:38 PM12/29/04
to
kmor...@netexecutive.com wrote:
> Don't get me wrong, as a person I feel absolutely terrible about
> what happened in India over the past few days. As a jaded IT job
> seeker on the other hand, I feel God has a way of getting back at
> people who try and steal the livelyhood of others. This will put a
> big wrench in India's IT infrastructure and a few other areas that
> were hit. I guess a few fat corrupt IT executives in North America
> will miss their software project delivery dates. Tee hee.

"Tee hee." Right, you "feel absolutely terrible," right...

If it were sensible to consider that God was striking at Indians last
week for their sins, then it is entirely as reasonable to assume that
He has been chastizing you for your own sins.

> Shine up your resumes boys, the jobs are a commin' back...

Probably not. Things have probably reached something of an
equilibrium, where it doesn't make sense to push _more_ projects to
India.

For maximum irony, I'll be logging onto a server in the morning in
India which involves Indian IT work essentially being outsourced to
Canada. It would be nice to have some staff in India for some of it,
but it's a challenge to find good people, and it's a much greater
challenge when there's a couple continents in the way.

> Before you think of flaming me, sit back and think for a second. You
> are obviously here cause you are looking for a job. Many of you in
> IT have been looking for work for months if not over a year. We all
> know where the work is going. When you can't afford to provide for
> your family, if you have to sell your house you worked so hard for
> or if your marriage of years has broken up because of financial
> stress you can't tell me that even though as a good person you feel
> bad, you don't also feel a sense of "serves you right". Just
> realize, the only difference between you and I is I am bold enough
> to state how we all feel.

The only reason I'd flame is the occasional sheer fun of it; it's just
that if it is reasonable to consider it "doctrine" that Indians are
now being chastized, then it's just as fair to imagine that you
deserve whatever you're getting.
--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="gmail.com" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];;
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
--Despite Pending :Alarm--

Upscale

unread,
Dec 29, 2004, 10:37:33 PM12/29/04
to
"Christopher Browne" <cbbr...@acm.org> wrote in message
>
> The only reason I'd flame is the occasional sheer fun of it; it's just
> that if it is reasonable to consider it "doctrine" that Indians are
> now being chastized, then it's just as fair to imagine that you
> deserve whatever you're getting.

If one wants to be pragmatic about it, then let us believe that God is
giving him what he deserves for assuming that God is on his side when it
comes to meting catastrophes.


Christopher Browne

unread,
Dec 29, 2004, 11:45:04 PM12/29/04
to

If he imagines himself to be of Judaeo/Christian origin, then he
really needs to do a re-read of the book of Job...
--
select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'gmail.com';
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxxian.html
"Linux is only free if your time has no value." -- Jamie Zawinski

3287448

unread,
Dec 30, 2004, 8:32:14 AM12/30/04
to
GOD?????????

"kalathiparambil" <kalathi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CyGAd.25964$nV.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages