Toorcamp 2024!

[korz...@gmail.com]

Hi, are we still using this thing, or is discord the new hotness?

I noticed over the weekend that Toorcamp 2024 tickets are on sale at Universe and shortly after starting a discussion in the Discord General channel, round 1 tickets sold out, but it sounds like the rollout was a little unexpected which would explain why I can't find details on the website or mailing list. zarkle in the channel is trying to help but has limited info so I was hoping someone here could help answer some questions or direct me to the right place to ask them:

1. Is parking likely to sell out and is there any alternative way to park a vehicle on the island if it does? (i.e. did it sell out last season?)
   
2. Does an RV pass include a drive-in campsite, or is that a separate purchase?
   
3. How can we be notified when drive-in campsites, cabins and yurts are announced?
   

Thanks for all your hard work organizing these things, I know it's not easy!

korin

[Tim Huynh]

Hey Campers, 

Ticket roll out was a bit of a hot mess because I fat fingered the ticket release dates on the universe.com system. It was supposed to be like 8/2 and became 2/8 or something. Well, 2 people registered right away and there is no undo after that so tickets have been up for months. Since it doesn't really come up in search, we just let it be while we continue to plan. That worked until about 2 days ago. 

h1kari, geo, and I are never on discord. My OCD does NOT make it easy for me to be on that platform as I obese over having a 0 inbox and that thing goes off every 2 min. This google group has been our defacto means of comms and will continue to be so with info coming out of this and into discord, twitter, fb, etc. Anyone is also welcome to contact us directly at t...@toorcon.org or da...@toorcon.org if you have any personal concerns. If you have a questions you think the group would like to hear, please use the google group. We'll be kicking the can on most info, like cabins, until Aug.

To answer Kornin's questions which are great:

Is parking likely to sell out and is there any alternative way to park a vehicle on the island if it does? (i.e. did it sell out last season?) 

We don't know if parking will sell out fast, first time doing it this way and it doesn't seem like it catching on fire. Make plans, make a group, and carpool. 

Does an RV pass include a drive-in campsite, or is that a separate purchase?

Yes, the RV pass gets you a spot. We'll be coordinating with RV passholders directly on what spot they will have closer to the event. No RVs over 24ft.

How can we be notified when drive-in campsites, cabins and yurts are announced?

We'll send something out in Aug about cabins and yurts. Most cabins with a toilet and shower go to groups over 10. It's mainly to make sure we maintain a good butt to potty ratio to minimize the impact on public restrooms and spaces. So a lot of the cabins will actually be used by our Staff. 

Thanks all for your patience and making this a joy for us to do. 

Thanks,
Tim

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thanks,

Tim

<he/him/they>

[Rebecca Demarest]

We were going to petition for a cabin this year for #octothorpe which is going to be a self care focused camp, and most of us are also on Space Team. What is the best method for us to go about ensuring that? We will for sure have more than 10 campers associated with our camp.

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[Jesse Michael]

> We don't know if parking will sell out fast, first time doing it this way and it doesn't seem like it catching on fire. Make plans, make a group, and carpool.

I suspect it doesn't seem like it's catching on fire because this is a new thing and many people may not realize that one parking pass per car is required even if you're just parking off-site at the spot up the hill.

I just bought two tickets in "general camping - tier 2" since tier 1 was sold out already and only realized later that the parking/rv passes weren't only for getting an on-site spot to put a vehicle for camping out of and had to go back and buy one with a parking pass.

-Jesse

[ExplodingLemur]

On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 12:18:48 AM UTC-7 Tim Huynh wrote:

Does an RV pass include a drive-in campsite, or is that a separate purchase?

Yes, the RV pass gets you a spot. We'll be coordinating with RV passholders directly on what spot they will have closer to the event. No RVs over 24ft.

To follow on to this question specifically: Does an RV pass include an off-site parking spot?  We're going to be bringing a travel trailer and will need to park the tow vehicle.  I've purchased an RV pass and a general camping pass to cover both of us.

Thanks!

[Karl Koscher]

Welp, it's now towards the end of August, and DEF CON and CCCamp are over, so it's probably time to restart this discussion.

We don't know if parking will sell out fast, first time doing it this way and it doesn't seem like it catching on fire. Make plans, make a group, and carpool. 

I purchased my ticket through the mobile Universe site and didn't even see this option because it was further down the page.

TBH, bundling parking with a certain kind of ticket is a very weird way to do it. You basically have to forfeit the early bird discounts to get parking?? Between that, paid parking being new, and it not being easily seen on mobile is probably why it's not taking off. I'm also not going to buy a second ticket just in case I end up needing a parking pass -- that just creates more chaos.

In my experience, it's also way too far in advance to be making plans on how to get to camp and back. Traditionally that has usually happened when ferry reservations are about to open, but I've also been in situations where we've been trying to figure out carpools up until a few days before camp. It usually ends up being a bin-packing/constraint satisfaction problem that is not trivial to solve.

I assume paid parking was introduced to encourage people to carpool, but with extremely limited ferry spots, that was already happening. I'm not sure additional incentives are needed.

I don't know what your options are with Universe now, but I'd really consider selling parking passes separately, stop selling the combined ticket/parking pass, and offering refund options to people.

[Tim Huynh]

Rebecca, 

that sounds like a great contribution! We'll chat directly about that in a separate thread.

For everyone else with large groups or villages that request a cabin, please email cab...@toorcamp.org. Cabins and yurts are limited. Staff and operations take priority, then villages with members >= 10. That pretty much fills up any cabin with running water and only leaves the rustic ones with no plumbing.

We understand that some of us have special needs. We'll try our best to accommodate like we usually do.

thanks,

Tim

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thanks,

Tim

<he/him/they>

[Tim Huynh]

ExplodingLemur,

good point, we didn't think about that. The number of RVs are pretty limited, so we'll say your pass gets an off-site parking spot. 

thanks,

Tim

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thanks,

Tim

<he/him/they>

[Tim Huynh]

Hey Karl,

hope you enjoyed CCC. My kids started school the very week so we had to miss out this year. Thanks for letting us know about your experience on the app, definitely didn't think about that. One thing we can do is move that ticket to the top to make it a bit more obvious. 

Parking is becoming 2 major issues, cost and space. Our first year at Doe Bay was $850 for the field, then $2500, then $4500, and now we are at $6000. It's $1500/wk for an SV with gas to run shuttles. Might be more next year. We are not going to break even at $50/car for that lot size and that's ok. We subsidize everything with ticket sales and play with averages to just try to make it as fair as possible for as many people as possible. That's why we have a 3 tier ticket system. It's so cool to see those who can afford it go a head and get the round 3 ticket already. Space is also shrinking as the Farmer is doing more with his land. We're working on the space issue now.

thanks,

Tim

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thanks,

Tim

<he/him/they>