Too Prolific For Nobel Prize?

[Randy]

Is JCO too prolific for the Nobel Prize? Simply as a practical matter,
how could the Nobel committee assess JCO as a candidate? My
understanding is that once the committee has its final candidates,
they spend the summer reading the works of the candidates. This would
never be possible with JCO, since her ouvre is too vast. At best, if
the committee was serious about JCO as a candidate, they would have to
read all year, or over two or three (or more) summers to read most of
her work. Do you think they would commit to doing this?

Has a writer with a very large body of work ever won the Nobel Prize?
Perhaps Doris Lessing is a case in point, but JCO has written probably
twice as much as her.

Randy

[Virginia Bucci]

Tee hee , this is funny, Randy. Reminds me of the annual Bach Festival on a
favorite radio station of mine. It starts around Christmas Eve. It takes
them until New Year's, playing 24/7, to broadcast all his works.

ginny b

[adva1]

Hi all,

 

I somehow don't think, though could be wrong, that prizes are not decided by twelve elves sitting down and reading books or assessing the chemistry innovation, physical or peace challenges, but rather lean on external feedbacks.

 

In literature I believe they consider how important and acknowledged the writer is in his own country, how prestigious.

 

What do you think or know on the subject?

 

Adva

 

[Marie Kabala-Rejment]

Hi,

It may have something to do with translation although in case of English it might not be of such importance as all the Committee members are surely fluent in English. Anyway, the role of translator is important and the quality of their work. How many of her books have been translated into Swedish?

I do not think that the Committee members need to read everything the author has produced before they award the Nobel Prize in Literature. Maybe, however, an author who is prolific is seen as of lower quality, producing so much with obvious ease - .suggesting of course that it may be too easy to be difficult?

What do you think?

Marie

[adva1]

Marie hi, as I said, I doubt if the Swedish committee members are doing their own evaluations. Come to mind our own noble prize winner, Agnon (Israel), whose unique and biblical style of writing is surely much more difficult to translate than any of JCO's books.

 

Also, there are many European winners who write in foreign languages, so I don't think the language is the issue here.

 

Politics are by far more decisive (not international politics).

 

Adva

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[Marie Kabala-Rejment]

OK, Adva - just out of curiosity: how can the language not be an issue if the Committee members have to read books in translation? Do not underestimate the role of the translator, as much can be lost or even gained in translation.

Just a minor point in the context of JCO discussion but quite an interesting one in itself.

I do think that popular writers tend to be seen by highbrows as inferior just because they are popular. Wouldn't you agree? 

[Oehling, Rick]

Interesting discussion of whether Oates's productivity hurts her chances of the Nobel. Although there are winners of the Nobel who I do not admire, the prize does insure that one's books are brought back into print (and kept in print)which I feel is going to be a major issue with Oates in the future. What is kept in print is what is most likely to be read, and is less of an issue with 'spare' writers like Pynchon.
The good news is that a number of Nobel committee members said that the power of Doris Lessing's short stories contributed greatly to her finally receiving the prize. As many writers complain about the length and scope of Lessing's Canopus in Argos series, my guess is that brevity of pieces like "To Room 19" helped Lessing get the award more than some of her longer works (excluding The Golden Notebook). The same may be true of Oates. Knowing they can't read it all, the committee members may read the short stories and short novels as indicators that there are many longer works by Oates that are equally good but that time does not allow them to 'get to.'
I'm curious what other contributors would choose to include in Oates's "canon." Would you pick some sentimental favorites or try to 'be objective'? Or would you select the most 'ambitious' works (Wonderland, Bellefleur, Blonde)? Would you try to get in idiosyncratic pieces like You Can't Catch Me or would you want everything to be clearly Oatesian? Would short stories get short shift? Or would longer works be thrown overboard because they weigh too much? There's only so much room on the Ark so what gets passage?
I suspect that the Nobel would grant Oates the honor that we accord a writer like Henry James: that everything she wrote -- no matter how obscure or difficult -- would stay in print -- and on reading lists.
Rick
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From: tonecl...@googlegroups.com [tonecl...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marie Kabala-Rejment [rej...@bredband.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:14 PM
To: tonecl...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [JCO:557] Re: Too Prolific For Nobel Prize?

[leslie caldarera]

I was just wondering how many people on this list feel they have read everything JCO has written
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-----Original Message-----
From: "Oehling, Rick" <oehl...@uww.edu>

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:41:18
To: tonecl...@googlegroups.com<tonecl...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [JCO:558] Re: Too Prolific For Nobel Prize?

[adva1]

Hi Marie, I don't of course have the answers to all of your questions, but what I was trying to point out is that I do not believe/think that the decision lies in the hands of a Swedish committee who reads the books, but rather the decision is taken by different measures.

Of course the translation is important no doubt, but less relevant. We need to google "the politics of the Noble Prize" and maybe find somewhere how things are done and how the choice is made.

 

I agree that the prestige writers have accumulated in their countries and outside their countries is most relevant, maybe the most relevant and possibly being popular might be an obstacle, but then we have to try and remember who won and see if they were popular or not in their countries.

 

If anything is not yet clear, please let me know and we can think together.

 

Best wishes, Adva

[Randy Souther]

According to the nobel web site, the committee reads the authors works during the summer:

June-August – Reading of productions. The members of the Academy read and assess the work of the final candidates during the summer. The Nobel Committee also prepares individual reports.

http://nobelprize.org/nomination/literature/process.html

Given this stated process, it seems to me that JCO, or any writer with a huge production, may be at a disadvantage.

Randy

[adva1]

 

http://nobelprize.org/nomination/literature/process.html

 

Adva

 

 

[adva1]

It seems Randy that we have both googled at the same time and sought the same answers.

 

Here are some more questions and answers

 

http://nobelprize.org/prize_announcements/literature/lit_questions_08.html

 

 

 

Adva

[Virginia Bucci]

definitely NOT me. I read a large proportion of what she published between
1970 and about 1978. Since then I have read perhaps 10 more novels. since
finding this group I'm beginning to fill in a few gaps here &there but have
a long way to go. I don't necessarily have a mission to read everything.
It's more that I find her novels very rewarding every time. Can't say the
same for other novelists with very few exceptions.

ginny b

[Marie Kabala-Rejment]

Well put, Ginny - this is also true about me.

[Virginia Bucci]

This is a very readable and helpful link, Adva.  I found this quote to be significant (emphasis mine):

 

It has been an unwritten rule from the very beginning to consider the sum of a life's work rather than a single book. We don't trouble ourselves much with literature's effect on society, which is difficult to assess. On the other hand, the influence a certain author has had in the literary realm is certainly a relevant factor. It has been the policy of the Swedish Academy since the 1940's to look for "the great precursors". Our goal is to award writers that will still be read a hundred years from now.

 

The sentiment would seem to work in Oates' favor.  Also:  if one actually  has gone through life without reading Oates' works :-) one could whittle them down by sticking to those which have won or have been nominated for the great literature prizes-- made the long list for the Man Booker--  etc.  However what Randy has been saying in his posts makes me uncomfortable--  that the Nobel Prize will ensure that Oates' works stay in print.  How can one "award writers that will still be read a 100 yrs from now" if the award determines that?  It's a tautology. 

 

ginny b 

[James Will]

I thought I did. Until recently, when I discovered through this discuss group that she has published under the name Lauren Kelly.
JW
 
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> Subject: [JCO:559] Re: Too Prolific For Nobel Prize?
> From: ladys...@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:54:07 +0000

[adva1]

And Rosamond Smith too.

 

Adva

 

 

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[Aaron Henton]

I'm at about 25%, maybe.  Main quest is to find an edition of each of her published works.  I'm a few short - a couple of the story collections, a couple of the play collections, and maybe a poetry collection.  All are most likely available online through ABE or other sources, but I keep hoping I'll find them in a used book store.   BTW, I've long subscribed to this DL, but have rarely responded.  Good discussions - hope to contribute more.   Aaron Henton --- On Thu, 9/24/09, adva1 <adva...@netvision.net.il> wrote:

[Caldarera, Leslie]

Thank you for the link Adva. I just watched the video of Professor Horace Engdahl speaking about Professor Jean-Marie Gustave Le Clézio (I have not read his works, have any of you?) and the Professor did mention that the committee has been reading his work for some time. I would expect people on a committee like this to be voracious readers, such as the people in this group, and therefore they might have read quite a bit of JCO. I don't quite understand what the "short list" is? They seem to have a list that writers have to have been on twice to make it to the Nobel Prize nomination? It would be enlightening to know if JCO is on this list, but apparently it's all confidential for fifty years? Anyway, it's fascinating. I know the committee to choose the Newbery Award is made up of librarians and it's not easy to become a member. From what I understand, they have hundreds of books to read in a short period of time, so I believe the members are usually people who review children's books on a regular basis. How does one become a Nobel Committee Member? I have to go back to the site to look. Thanks again for the info.

Leslie Caldarera
Teacher Librarian
Edison Middle School
LAUSD

1263

There is no Frigate like a Book
To take us Lands away
Nor any Coursers like a Page
Of prancing Poetry-
This Traverse may the poorest take
Without oppress of Toll-
How frugal is the Chariot
That bears the Human soul.
Emily Dickinson

________________________________

From: tonecl...@googlegroups.com on behalf of adva1
Sent: Wed 9/23/2009 1:23 PM
To: tonecl...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [JCO:563] Re: Too Prolific For Nobel Prize?



It seems Randy that we have both googled at the same time and sought the same answers.



Here are some more questions and answers



http://nobelprize.org/prize_announcements/literature/lit_questions_08.html







Adva



-----Original Message-----
From: tonecl...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tonecl...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Randy Souther
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:16 PM
To: tonecl...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Randy Souther
Subject: [JCO:561] Re: Too Prolific For Nobel Prize?



According to the nobel web site, the committee reads the authors works during the summer:

June-August - Reading of productions. The members of the Academy read and assess the work of the final candidates during the summer. The Nobel Committee also prepares individual reports.

[adva1]

Lesley, a short list nominees are the writers who for instance in the Booker
Prize, are those who what you might know as runner ups, the ones who are the
best five or ten best writers, from which the committee will choose the
final winner.

Clezio is French but lived a lot outside of France and wrote about other
people, usually third world countries and I think that was his main appeal
for the commitee.

Adva

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05:52:00

[Caldarera, Leslie]

I just looked up JCO in the Nobel Library and there are pages and pages of her books listed...these books are made available to the committee, so apparently they have or are reading her work. http://lib.nobelbiblioteket.se/search~S0?/aoates/aoates/1,4,130,B/exact&FF=aoates+joyce+carol+1938&13,126

Leslie Caldarera
Teacher Librarian
Edison Middle School
LAUSD

1263

There is no Frigate like a Book
To take us Lands away
Nor any Coursers like a Page
Of prancing Poetry-
This Traverse may the poorest take
Without oppress of Toll-
How frugal is the Chariot
That bears the Human soul.
Emily Dickinson

________________________________

________________________________

[adva1]

I just read in one of our online literature news that Nobel prize nominees
were already short listed for the last 5. it is not stated nor known if JCO
is among them. our own Amoz Oz is also one of the nominees.

it is said that most of the noble prize winners for literature were European
thus far. it is also said that the committee members do indeed read the
books. it seems that soon the winner will be announced if I am not mistaken.

[Marie Kabala-Rejment]

Yes, they will announce the winner on 13th October

Marie
----- Original Message -----

[Davelyn Robbins]

[Oehling, Rick]

On this topic, I stumbled on a hilarious and profound piece by Norman Mailer yesterday. It is in his book The Prisoner of Sex. His publicist received a phone call that Mailer was going to win the Nobel that day. Mailer recounts his reaction in fascinating terms. Then he discovers that Beckett won instead. (Mailer would die without having won the Prize.) Mailer is an important writer to JCO although I rarely see him mentioned in discussions of her work (except by JCO herself).
In an interview last year, JCO was asked about the Nobel and she replied that now that her parents and Raymond had passed, she doubted that the Prize would mean that much to her. As her fans, we all want her to win. But do these writers feel differently? Doris Lessing's reaction to the news causes me infinite delight. You can watch it on YouTube. They tell her she has won, and she replies, "Oh, Christ!" She seems unimpressed.
Rick

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From: tonecl...@googlegroups.com [tonecl...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marie Kabala-Rejment [rej...@bredband.net]

Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 2:20 PM
To: tonecl...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [JCO:574] Re: Too Prolific For Nobel Prize?