Difference between tk4100 and em4100 RFID?

[James Andrews]

So,  had seed ship me a RFID reader to the states to play with while here.  

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/125khz-rfid-module-uart-p-171.html

The spec says it supports em4100

I forgot to get the ones with the cards, so I grabbed some 125KHz cards from ebay for like $2.  They are tk4100 cards.  They are not working, I didn't realize there was a em4100 and a tk4100, so now I am wondering what the difference is, and if these cards should or shouldn't work with this reader.

I am guessing not that they probably won't...  Thoughts?

James

[Taylan Ayken]

They should work. EM4100 and TK4100 are essentially the same thing. I believe the difference is the manufacturer. http://www.stronglink-rfid.com/en/rfid-cards/tk4100.html

You can use EM4001 cards too, for example, Sparkfun has them.

---

From: James Andrews <then...@gmail.com>
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 3:07 PM
Subject: [THS:23328] Difference between tk4100 and em4100 RFID?

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[James Andrews]

I am at a loss as to why it isn't working then.  I use this as my reference on my reader back home.

http://tronixstuff.wordpress.com/2010/08/18/moving-forward-with-arduino-chapter-15-rfid-introduction/

Wiring it like the 1st schematic.  I am beginning to wonder if it's the arduino.  I can load blink ok, but when I load the RFID sketch the LED on the arduino stays lit, and I don't know if it's suppose too or not.  

Almost 4am here, guess I'll breadboard and arduino in the morning and see if it works there.

Thanks,

James

[Taylan Ayken]

Arduino has one hardware UART, for using that particular RFID reader, you need 2 UARTs. Try getting the uC out and using the onboard FTDI IC directly.

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From: James Andrews <then...@gmail.com>
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [THS:23330] Difference between tk4100 and em4100 RFID?

[James Andrews]

Why do I need 2 UARTs?  As far as I can tell I only need the one RX pin as long as I connect it after I've uploaded the sketch.  That's what I've done on the other reader I have back in Tokyo.  I tried it on another arduino so that tells me that the problem is either the cards or the circuit.  I wish I had a way to test the cards.  Guess that'll just have to wait.  I can either order some from seeed and wait for them to arrive or...try and tell my wife where the ones I have at home are and have her bring them when she comes.

Either way my FeLicia NFC reader came in today so I'll just pivot to that.

James

[James Andrews]

OK so I tried another arduino and that didn't work on the 124Khz card reader. Going to table that until i get back to Japan.

FeLica reader came in today.  That worked.  Though it didn't read the Suica card I brought with me.  Not sure why.  It did however read the MBTA  "Charlie Card" that I have.  I'll do m

[Taylan Ayken]

Get the cards to THS when you come back, I can test them with the reader I have + an FTDI adapter. No ideas about the FeLiCa reader.

---

From: James Andrews <then...@gmail.com>
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [THS:23342] Difference between tk4100 and em4100 RFID?

[James Andrews]

I have another 125Khz reader back at my house in Japan that Is still on the breadboard and I know it works so I'll test them there too, if they don't work there then I'll bring them to the space.

[James Andrews]

This is the FeLiCa reader I bought.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130790984035?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Says it supports FeliCa cards such as RCS_860 and RCS_854  Not sure what the Suica is I couldn't find any information (but I didn't look very hard either as I was about to go out).   It's my plan to search that out in the morning.

[Richard Frankum]

Hi,

On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:02 PM, James Andrews <then...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is the FeLiCa reader I bought.

Apparently it's a contraction of "Felicity" and "Card," so you have
one too many caps in there...

> Says it supports FeliCa cards such as RCS_860 and RCS_854 Not sure what the
> Suica is I couldn't find any information (but I didn't look very hard either

J Wikipedia shows these types:
RC-S860 四角(Edy)
RC-S853/854 円弧(Suica)

But it looks like the FeliCa can be implemented in "Types," and isn't
always referenced by the RC-S number. Charlie Card is a Type-A and I
suspect the Suica is a Type-C but haven't seen any reference for that
yet.
I'd be interested in seeing how this stacks up with Passmo, and
whether the commuter pass tech is a different standard altogether.
--
--Richard Frankum

[James Andrews]

My wife has a Pasmo card, I'll ask her to bring it with her when she comes next month and give it a try, thanks for looking up the info.

[MRE]

Getting back to this question:

I dont know for certain, as I have not played with readers much. But I can speak about serial coms in general:

*MOST* of the time, two devices (plus the PC) on one RS/TTL232 bus does not really cause much issue. Especially when they are close (such as using connecting a XBEE or Bluetooth module to an Arduino, sharing the 232 bus with the FTDI USB chip to the PC).

*BUT* 232 is specifically NOT specified for more than two devices (endpoints) for two major reasons:
1: The UART has no specific hardware (and software is generally not implemented) to discriminate messages for specific devices. So, your reader may be hearing stuff It doesnt understand, and simply decides to stay out of it. Think of it like a network collision. "Im not in with the in crowd!"

2: On longer runs, you will get all sorts of nasty signal reflections and messy bits when you try chaining multiple serial232 devices. Most multi-drop networks have termination resistors at each end of the chain to clamp down the signals so that they dont bounce back. Serial232 specifically does NOT have these, because it is never meant to have more than two devices anyway. So, according to the hardware, the signal goes in and never comes back out. Depending on the hardware design you have, one or more of the UARTS on your chain may be 'sucking the life out of' the signal (because that is exactly what it is specified and designed to do. Remember that voltage levels on a 232 net are not set in stone. For TTL high signal could be 1.5, 3.3. or 5 volts. For RS232 it could swing between -3 and +15 volts, but 0 to 5 volt swings are common on crappy USB-serial adapters).


Unfortunately, its one of those things where we get away with it a lot of the time. Especially with embedded hardware, and notoriously so on Arduino/radio chip combinations. But it is technically against spec and highly unadvised.

[James Andrews]

I do know form experience with my other reader that the arduino doesn't program properly with the RX connected to the reader, which is why I always wait for the code to be uploaded before I connect it. 

As for the cards, and the reader.  The problem is not the cards.  It was the actual reader.  I had actually bought 2 and hadn't unpackaged the 2nd one. I was holding out on the first one working I guess. I grabbed the 2nd one a little while ago and popped the first one off the breadboard and connected the 2nd and re-connected the power.  So I will now contact support at SeeedStudio and see about getting an RMA.  It's odd.  The same package the damaged reader was in also had an antenna that had a broken wire.  I had just swapped the antenna with the 2nd one early on.  I was just going to solder it back on the first one, but since the reader is crap as well I'll just send them both back.  Need to sort out a few more things to get from Adafruit for the DVD ripper robot.

[MRE]

Well!
Glad to see it was a fubardware issue.
not that I wish broken hardware on you. But its a dang lucky thing you bought two, or you would have been walking around with a zombied reader and never know it.

[AbH Belxjander Draconis Serechai]

I have both an ICOCA and PASSMO cards at hand myself...

Would testing the ICOCA help as well?

[James Andrews]

cool.  When I get back to Japan 'll give a shout for people to bring random cards and we can see what works and what doesn't.  I'll read the information they have and see if there's more that we can configure or not.  When I tried it I was working off of the demo app with the cards it sent me.

On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 11:40 AM, AbH Belxjander Draconis Serechai <belxj...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have both an ICOCA and PASSMO cards at hand myself...

Would testing the ICOCA help as well?

--

[James Andrews]

Contacted Seeed they're sending me a new board "asap"  great customer service them guys. :-D  No fuss just tell them it's bad and they aren't even asking me to return the bad board.