Tokyo Ruby User Group (International) - 1st Gathering (proposal)

[Behzod Kuchkorov]

Hi all,

Special thanks to Paul for setting this group up. I am really excited
about being part of Ruby Community and taking it to a next level,
where we - foreigners and Japanese - can 'Blend' and 'Engage' more
actively and genuinely.

My name is Beck (originally Behzod) and I have been living (studying
and working in Japan) for 12 years. Before the heat about RubyKaigi is
over, I would like to propose to hold our first gathering as early as
possible. If we are around 20 to 30 participants, I can provide a
venue near Shinagawa station. If we get bigger than that, let's
consider some other alternatives.

If everyone has any certain ideas about how we can organize our
meetup, please share. Look forward to that!

Cheers!
Beck

[Paul McMahon]

Hi Beck,

Great to meet you today. Thanks for offering your place. At this point, I'm pretty optimistic we can fill it. So it should be a good size for the first meeting.

While I agree we need to keep the ball rolling, which is why I created this group right away, I have been pretty overwhelmed from Ruby Kaigi and all the events surrounding it. The earliest I'd want to hold it would be the third or fourth week of September. What does everyone think?

Paul

[Motohiro Takayama]

3rd or 4th week of September would be fine for me!

[Adam Akhtar]

good for me

[t.baba]

good morning!
I'm Tatsuro BABA. I'm Japanese, and (beginner) Web Application
Engineer, using Ruby on Rails & other WAF.

I think that Paul's idea(first meeting get start in third or fourth
week of September) is so good.
That is so fine for me.
And if possible, this meeting will be setted on weekend, especially
Saturday!!
I don't know more details of schedule in September, but I want to go
as possible.
Sorry for my BAD English. Thanks.


Tatsuro

[Paul McMahon]

Hi Tatsuro,

Thanks for joining. That's a good point about the day of week. For some people maybe weekend is better, while others weekday is better. I'm fine either way. Does anyone else have any preference?

Paul

[Robert Gravina]

+1 TRUG. There are other *RUG groups, like L(ondon)RUG, etc. so the
name works well.
+1 Weeknight. It's easier to drop by somewhere after work than it is
to come out on a Sat night, for me anyway, although I could probably
do either also.

Robert

[Kakutani Shintaro]

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Robert Gravina
<robert....@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 TRUG. There are other *RUG groups, like L(ondon)RUG, etc. so the
> name works well.

In Tokyo, "TLUG" already exists and many Japanese(including me) can't
pronounce 'L' and 'R' clearly :)
http://tlug.jp/

> +1 Weeknight. It's easier to drop by somewhere after work than it is
> to come out on a Sat night, for me anyway, although I could probably
> do either also.

+1 Weeknight. it's better for sustainability. My experience that hosts
Asakusa.rb these 2 years shows that.
we have a meetup in Tuesday night regularly.

--
Kakutani Shintaro

[Robert Gravina]

On 31 August 2010 10:34, Kakutani Shintaro <shintaro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In Tokyo, "TLUG" already exists and many Japanese(including me) can't
> pronounce 'L' and 'R' clearly :)
> http://tlug.jp/

That's a good point :) In katakana, they would both be ティラッグ I suppose.

Robert

[Leonard Chin]

I personally prefer following the "Ruby Brigade" naming scheme, i.e. Tokyo.rb
Also agree that in Japanese, TRUG/TLUG are hard to distinguish.
ティーラグ？

I am divided on the weeknight/weekday issue, so I'll abstain from
commenting on that.

--
Leonard

[Behzod Kuchkorov]

I have been to Kakutani-san's session "There is no spoon", and my
impression was that there should NOT be strong sub-hierarchical scheme
for Ruby Groups. Thus, we can choose a name that wouldn't necessarily
be associated as 'sub'. I think one option is to intentionally include
the word 'Ruby' - it's only 4 letters long - so the name could be a
pair of symbols + Ruby, or in reverse order.

Regarding the gathering, I am flexible with both - weekday evenings
and Saturdays.

Beck

[Paul McMahon]

I thought of using the ruby brigade naming scheme, but as there are already many individual groups in tokyo, such as tokyu.rb and asakusa.rb, I didn't want to create tokyo.rb. I want this group to complement them, and tokyo.rb feels like it would encompass those groups as well. We already have some members of asakusa.rb, so what do you guys think?

For the TRUG vs TLUG thing, I don't really expect it to be a big deal, as people won't write it in katakana, and I think Japanese are already quite adept at differentiation the meanings of words that sound the same based on the context. However, my Japanese ability leaves a lot to be desired, so if people such as yourself and other fluent people think it is an issue, we can avoid going by that acronym.

--
Paul McMahon <pa...@mobalean.com>
mobalean LLC - Japanese Mobile Development and Consulting
http://www.mobalean.com/

[Kakutani Shintaro]

Hi Paul,

I'm a core member of Asakusa.rb.
Your questions are important but it's too tough for me to be answering
in Englisy on the fly :<

I'll talk about this w/ Akira Matsuda(@a_matsuda, the founder of
asakusa.rb) in tonight or this weekend.

I (or Akira ;-) will reply it later, definitely.

Sincerely,

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Paul McMahon <pa...@mobalean.com> wrote:
> I thought of using the ruby brigade naming scheme, but as there are already many individual groups in tokyo, such as tokyu.rb and asakusa.rb, I didn't want to create tokyo.rb.  I want this group to complement them, and tokyo.rb feels like it would encompass those groups as well.  We already have some members of asakusa.rb, so what do you guys think?
>
> For the TRUG vs TLUG thing, I don't really expect it to be a big deal, as people won't write it in katakana, and I think Japanese are already quite adept at differentiation the meanings of words that sound the same based on the context.  However, my Japanese ability leaves a lot to be desired, so if people such as yourself and other fluent people think it is an issue, we can avoid going by that acronym.

--
Kakutani Shintaro

[Information Kanasansoft]

What kind word?
For example, Asakusa is location name, and
Tokyu meaning railway's name.

I think, location name(same level of
Asakusa) is too small aria for this group.
moderate
I thought yamanote.rb come from
Yamanote line.

2010/8/31 Paul McMahon <pa...@mobalean.com>:

[Leonard Chin]

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:58, Paul McMahon <pa...@mobalean.com> wrote:
> I thought of using the ruby brigade naming scheme, but as there are already many individual groups in tokyo, such as tokyu.rb and asakusa.rb, I didn't want to create tokyo.rb.  I want this group to complement them, and tokyo.rb feels like it would encompass those groups as well.  We already have some members of asakusa.rb, so what do you guys think?

I don't think it would mean that. Using Tokyo is a good way of
contrasting against {tokyu,mikata,asakusa,akasaka,shibuya}.rb
because the Japanese-speaking ruby community in Tokyo is so large, yet
the English-speaking is so small that just a single
group would be enough.

You could always call it gaijin.rb I guess ;)

> For the TRUG vs TLUG thing, I don't really expect it to be a big deal, as people won't write it in katakana, and I think Japanese are already quite adept at differentiation the meanings of words that sound the same based on the context.  However, my Japanese ability leaves a lot to be desired, so if people such as yourself and other fluent people think it is an issue, we can avoid going by that acronym.

Well, maybe. Even if noone writes it in katakana (and I doubt anyone
will!), it *will* be a little trick for many Japanese natives.
We probably need a bit more input, though.

[Paul McMahon]

Hi Kakutani,

Thanks for posting over at asakusa.rb. I followed up there, and will
also participate on tonight's event.

As mentioned there, I think this is starting to become a bit of a bike
shed discussion (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_Law_of_Triviality ). I
remember how long we spent discussing our company name before settling
on Mobalean - and we were only 3 people.

In the end, I don't think the name is so important. Well I value
everyones input on this, I want to conclude the discussion as soon as
possible, so I can focus on more important things, like actually
arranging an event. ;)

Paul

[Motohiro Takayama]

At the first gathering, I want to share our problem.

After the RubyKaigi200 finished, I saw many Japanese attendee tweeted "if I understood English more, it could be more better conference for me", and so did foreign attendee.
At the reception, I saw both Japanese and foreign attendees talks only themselves. It could be much better to put them together!

Anyway, I will help setting the meetup up if necessary.

[Kakutani Shintaro]

Hi Paul,

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Paul McMahon <pa...@mobalean.com> wrote:
> In the end, I don't think the name is so important.  Well I value

I do not think so. to rubyist, naming matters :)
http://www.slideshare.net/takahashim/rubyconftw2010/37

My intention is:
Yes, name is just a name.
I'd love share with you a background in our Japanese Ruby community
rather than a naming bike shed.
I will not force to you our way, but I'd like to tell you that.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing you at tonight's asakusa.rb
meetup(Thank you for coming!).
it must be excited.

Regards,
--
Shintaro Kakutani

[Paul McMahon]

Hello Motohiro,

Thanks for your offer of help. I'll definitely be counting on you and
all the others who have offered.

I agree that the situation could be improved. However, all the
overseas attendants I have talked to said they really enjoyed the
conference.

One thing I was thinking of doing was to ask non-Japanese to share how
their experiences with English. Many (if not most) of the
non-Japanese ruby programmers do not speak English as their first
language, so perhaps they give some insight.

We have a year until RubyKaigi 2011. I think by then we can do a lot
to encourage collaboration across different communities.

Paul

[Paul McMahon]

On 31 August 2010 15:47, Kakutani Shintaro <shintaro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do not think so. to rubyist, naming matters :)
> http://www.slideshare.net/takahashim/rubyconftw2010/37

Ah, rubyconf.tw, I actually there that talk.
And when programming coming up with a good name can be challenging too.

> My intention is:
> Yes, name is just a name.
> I'd love share with you a background in our Japanese Ruby community
> rather than a naming bike shed.
> I will not force to you our way, but I'd like to tell you that.

I welcome input from Japanese (and non-Japanese)!
My main point is we want to make a decision about the name as soon as possible.
I want to wait until we have chosen a name before further promoting
the group or announcing the first event.

> Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing you at tonight's asakusa.rb
> meetup(Thank you for coming!).
> it must be excited.

Yes, I'm looking forward to it (and many of the overseas presenters
are too I think!).

[Adam Akhtar]

Name creating is so exciting...for the first 10 minutes and then you realise 3 days later its a pain so I think your right about making it a quick decision. Afterall there's no law saying you can't change it later on. If your not getting any good vibes with the current naming systems then you could try from a diff. angle.

If the main intention of the meeting is to bring Japanese and Foreigners together you could always think of a name that describes that - like a verb.

zip, twine, twist, fuse, meld, mingle, mix, unite, merge, bind, connect, join, seal are only some that come to mind - add .rb on the end or simply meetup and off you go.

Fuse.rb? Unity.rb? United.rb? Twist.rb?

Im going to the asakusa.rb meetup later so perhaps a few names can be tossed around then.

See you then.

[Robert Gravina]

On 31 August 2010 17:56, Adam Akhtar <adam....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing you at tonight's asakusa.rb
>> > meetup(Thank you for coming!).

Does anyone one know where it is? I can't find the information of the
asakusa.rb page :)

Robert

[Behzod Kuchkorov]

Robert,

The place is here http://bit.ly/aF9vMW 13th floor.
Akihabara DaiBiru (or Akihabara Crossfield)

[Robert Gravina]

On 31 August 2010 19:04, Behzod Kuchkorov <behzodk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> The place is here http://bit.ly/aF9vMW 13th floor.
> Akihabara DaiBiru (or Akihabara Crossfield)
>

Thanks! I'll head overt there now.

Robert

[Curt Sampson]

On Aug 31, 12:30 am, Paul McMahon <p...@mobalean.com> wrote:

>  The earliest I'd want to hold it would be the third or fourth week of September.  What does everyone think?

The third week works better for me. I'm taking off for ICFP (the
International Conference on Functional Programming) on 09-24, and will
be away for about two weeks, so I wouldn't be able to attend unless
it's on the 23rd at the latest.

(Yes, I'm a Haskell guy these days, but I still like and work in Ruby
as well.)

cjs