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jared

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Oct 22, 2011, 11:41:35 PM10/22/11
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We have a new member that has joined
New Member wrote:

I've been a sole opponent against tithing and a proponent for spirit led giving in my church for the last 2 years. After winning the battle at first, it appears I have recently lost the war. The leaders of the church agreed with me at first, but now the same leaders are supporting the imposition of tithing again. I believe your group would be interested in reading the full story including an article and letters on tithing I wrote to the church. I just posted them in my blog: http://godhelpuswedonthaveaclue.blogspot.com/, post: http://godhelpuswedonthaveaclue.blogspot.com/2011/10/article-and-letters-i-wrote-to-my.html

vi...@lavello.net

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Oct 23, 2011, 12:34:54 PM10/23/11
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How does a church "impose" tithing - sounds so draconian and communist?
If a church 'imposed' anything can't you "vote with your feet?"
I don't know if not tithing these last 2 years has led to 'spirit led' giving or 'self'willed" giving.
I would be careful with the advice given here.


Thanks,
Vince Lavello

Cell: 714.209.1279



From: "jared" <jbb...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 8:42 PM
To: ti...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Tithing & Stewardship Group] New Member


We have a new member that has joined
New Member wrote:

I've been a sole opponent against tithing and a proponent for spirit led giving in my church for the last 2 years. After winning the battle at first, it appears I have recently lost the war. The leaders of the church agreed with me at first, but now the same leaders are supporting the imposition of tithing again. I believe your group would be interested in reading the full story including an article and letters on tithing I wrote to the church. I just posted them in my blog: http://godhelpuswedonthaveaclue.blogspot.com/, post: http://godhelpuswedonthaveaclue.blogspot.com/2011/10/article-and-letters-i-wrote-to-my.html

 

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Douglas Wright

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Oct 23, 2011, 3:33:14 PM10/23/11
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Actually I have voted with my feet and haven't been back since walking out during a tithing preaching a few weeks ago. (If you haven't already, you can read the full story on my blog at, http://godhelpuswedonthaveaclue.blogspot.com/2011/10/article-and-letters-i-wrote-to-my.html.) But, my wife is still faithful in attendance with my two kids. She is even an employee of the church as the Custodian. I might have used too strong of word, "imposition." Although tithing is not forced on the members, they are pressured through guilt to yield by being told; "your being dishonest to the Lord, or your not doing God's will, or you will have to answer to the Lord if you don't tithe." And then the whole Sunday service has been devoted to nothing but the preaching of tithing with examples to prove the benefits of  compliance and the misfortune of noncompliance.
Look, I'm not against tithing if it is within a person's means and they feel led to do so by the Holy Spirit. But, if it is out of guilt, obligation, indoctrination, brainwashing, hypnosis, or 
greed (to give in order to get or to give only 10% when more could be given), then it is wrong--very wrong--especially for the ones doing the receiving. If a person does not have the Holy Spirit in them to lead them in their giving, then their gifts are for naught. God does not need the money and he can not be bought. Going to church, reading the bible, and tithing will not save you. If your not willing to give up self and let God lead, your dead in your sins. The life you think you have is no life at all. God doesn't want our money; he wants us--our heart,mind, body, and soul.

jade...@earthlink.net

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Oct 24, 2011, 2:17:18 PM10/24/11
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well said Douglas

Michael Reynolds

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Oct 24, 2011, 2:18:56 PM10/24/11
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 Thank you Vince for your participation. this is a novel and it is to all who debate Church tithing. Protestant day is October 31 st All saints day, it is the day Martin Luther posted 95 arguments that brought on large changes to how the world and Christians view the Church. Protestant day  also started wars and revolutions because bible interpretation and money were involved. I am now protesting laodician apathy concerning church finances.  You say you are Rich said John to the laodicians in revelations, Vince Please consult John 10 about hirelings and Good sheep herds.?This blog is revolutionary!  Anit-tithers here on this blog are anti-sheeple. 

All reading my protest what do yo think please do not tell me you are neutral. Vince I am accusing you of appearing double minded but I could be dead wrong please accept my challenges in love Jesus knows I'm pride-full and cowardly so often.  If I'm wrong i need correction.Please Vince and anyone correct us on this blog without vagueness pulling no punches if you love us. Should we be rebuked? Please I don't want to spread lying doctrines or hurt the Body of Christ. Where do you stand Vince brother, you been around tithe debate a long time I want to know where you stand?
  I will contact you again.Vince and those in the middle, This debate must trouble you I guess because you are a deep thinker. Let me please speculate about your heart, advising you Vince.  In my experience Evangelical Traditions are blinding seem harmless on the surface, devilishly sophisticated, political and strong friend. When I have thought I have moved beyond traditions I then find another unbiblical practice in my life. We should continually challenge all notions in Jesus. If one accepts the view to be anti tithe then it follows quickly that current modern Church structures are also open to hard questions. 
  The Priesthood of all in Christ is a radical statement you agree with but have you swallowed the troubling deep implications? All Christians are priest! My radical speculation from that point is that Church offices of Clergy and partitioners is a left over Catholic tradition still in the thinking of most Protestants today.Vince this is the opposite tone of us Jesus slaves and prisoners for Jesus. 
Vince, I love that you read the book Slave by John MacArthur. John MacArthur has been against Money tithe doctrines for more than 20 years. So was Martin Luther the great protestant performer, John Whycliff, Charles Spurgeon, JVernon McGee and  Steve Gregg my favorite current preacher. Maybe you come out for or against money tithes in the past I don't know maybe I missed or forgot your view. So Please soon Vince Pointblank make a clear decision statement on the standard doctrines of money tithe for Christian. 
I think preachers who feel entitled to a money tithe and who have succeeded upholding that tradition by collecting a money tithe in the name of Jesus have effectively undermined the giving freedom of fellow priest. 
The money tithe preachers are biting at and shearing sheep instead of crucifying their own fleshly earthbound desires for stable incomes. Who ahold bear the most financial risk Jesus Bible teaching leaders or the persons who know the least Bible?  With any christian  money tithe system the leaders are better off than the givers in financial risk. Good shepherd Preachers should live lives of risky love for Jesus not expect others to risk their finances putting local non profit Christian organizations above their own families.
 Vince you been around tithe debate a long time I want to know where you stand. I love that you read the book Slave by John MacArthur. John MacArthur has been against Money tithe doctrines for more than 20 years. So was Martin Luther the great protestant performer, John Whycliff, Charles Spurgeon, JVernon McGee and  Steve Gregg my favorite current preacher. Maybe you come out for or against money tithes in the past I don't know maybe I missed or forgot your view. So Please soon Vince Pointblank make a clear decision statement on the standard doctrines of money tithe for Christian. Do Christians sin when they fail to give 10% of their cash to local clergy preachers ministries where they attend? Vince if you view that doctrine a falsehood why is it not also as a taxing falsehood both draconian and partially communistic  It is certainly liberal please Vince, notice how conservative preachers sound a lot like liberals who desire more government and taxes. When talking about money and church structure and time expecting preachers also want more money and more church government  

Now to show the similarity I will borrow from liberal statements blending money Tithe preaching into it Marx: " from each parishioner priest, 10% according to what he has to each local clergy preaching minister " " Kennedy: ask not unclerical priest how you can send your child to Christian school, but ask how you can send a local cleric minister preachers kid to Christian school or Bible college with your ten percent of income. " 
  Hillary Clinton: it takes a village ( local parish of parishioners giving to clergy) and a minister expecting 10% of someone's cash to save a soul. Money Tithes is not draconian and communistic  and then maybe we should reconsider indulgences sold by the Catholic Church leaders seek stable incomes. The Solution is church tithes.
Do Christians really sin when they fail to give 10% of their cash to local clergy preachers ministries where they attend? Vince if you view that doctrine a falsehood why is it not also as a taxing falsehood both draconian and partially communistic  It is certainly liberal please Vince, notice how conservative preachers sound a lot like liberals who desire more government and taxes. When talking about money and church structure and time expecting preachers also want more money and more church government 

  Now Vince to show the similarity I will borrow from liberal statements blending money Tithe preaching into it Marx: " from each parishioner priest, 10% according to what he has to each local clergy preaching minister " " Kennedy: ask not unclerical priest how you can send your child to Christian school, but ask how you can send a local cleric minister preachers kid to Christian school or Bible college with your ten percent of income. " 
Hillary Clinton: it takes a village ( local parish of parishioners giving to clergy) and a minister expecting 10% of someone's cash to save a soul. For Martin Luther it started with 95 small statements concerning money and then a revolution happened. Why not be radical Vince your beliefs are departing from the safe conventional false doctrines. 
Vince in closing, If Money Tithes doctrines are not partially draconian and communistic  and then maybe we should reconsider the accusations by Luther concerning indulgences sold by the Catholic Church during the time of Martin Luther. Please reply my friends who have read this novel as your time permits. Thank you for reading and debating it makes my day.
Well happy Halloween everyone remember everyday is all saints day. Everyone in Christ is a holy ministering priest, but many traditional money entitled communistic vampires have nice suits and Bibles.

Sent from my iPhone

Michael Reynolds

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Oct 24, 2011, 2:19:58 PM10/24/11
to ti...@googlegroups.com
 Thank you Vince for your participation. this is a novel and it is to all who debate Church tithing. Protestant day is October 31 st All saints day, it is the day Martin Luther posted 95 arguments that brought on large changes to how the world and Christians view the Church. Protestant day  also started wars and revolutions because bible interpretation and money were involved. I am now protesting laodician apathy concerning church finances.  You say you are Rich said John to the laodicians in revelations, Vince Please consult John 10 about hirelings and Good sheep herds.?This blog is revolutionary!  Anit-tithers here on this blog are anti-sheeple. 

All reading my protest what do yo think please do not tell me you are neutral. Vince I am accusing you of appearing double minded but I could be dead wrong please accept my challenges in love Jesus knows I'm pride-full and cowardly so often.  If I'm wrong i need correction.Please Vince and anyone correct us on this blog without vagueness pulling no punches if you love us. Should we be rebuked? Please I don't want to spread lying doctrines or hurt the Body of Christ. Where do you stand Vince brother, you been around tithe debate a long time I want to know where you stand?
  I will contact you again.Vince and those in the middle, This debate must trouble you I guess because you are a deep thinker. Let me please speculate about your heart, advising you Vince.  In my experience Evangelical Traditions are blinding seem harmless on the surface, devilishly sophisticated, political and strong friend. When I have thought I have moved beyond traditions I then find another unbiblical practice in my life. We should continually challenge all notions in Jesus. If one accepts the view to be anti tithe then it follows quickly that current modern Church structures are also open to hard questions. 
  The Priesthood of all in Christ is a radical statement you agree with but have you swallowed the troubling deep implications? All Christians are priest! My radical speculation from that point is that Church offices of Clergy and partitioners is a left over Catholic tradition still in the thinking of most Protestants today.Vince this is the opposite tone of us Jesus slaves and prisoners for Jesus. 
Vince, I love that you read the book Slave by John MacArthur. John MacArthur has been against Money tithe doctrines for more than 20 years. So was Martin Luther the great protestant performer, John Whycliff, Charles Spurgeon, JVernon McGee and  Steve Gregg my favorite current preacher. Maybe you come out for or against money tithes in the past I don't know maybe I missed or forgot your view. So Please soon Vince Pointblank make a clear decision statement on the standard doctrines of money tithe for Christian. 
I think preachers who feel entitled to a money tithe and who have succeeded upholding that tradition by collecting a money tithe in the name of Jesus have effectively undermined the giving freedom of fellow priest. 
The money tithe preachers are biting at and shearing sheep instead of crucifying their own fleshly earthbound desires for stable incomes. Who ahold bear the most financial risk Jesus Bible teaching leaders or the persons who know the least Bible?  With any christian  money tithe system the leaders are better off than the givers in financial risk. Good shepherd Preachers should live lives of risky love for Jesus not expect others to risk their finances putting local non profit Christian organizations above their own families.
 Vince you been around tithe debate a long time I want to know where you stand. I love that you read the book Slave by John MacArthur. John MacArthur has been against Money tithe doctrines for more than 20 years. So was Martin Luther the great protestant performer, John Whycliff, Charles Spurgeon, JVernon McGee and  Steve Gregg my favorite current preacher. Maybe you come out for or against money tithes in the past I don't know maybe I missed or forgot your view. So Please soon Vince Pointblank make a clear decision statement on the standard doctrines of money tithe for Christian. Do Christians sin when they fail to give 10% of their cash to local clergy preachers ministries where they attend? Vince if you view that doctrine a falsehood why is it not also as a taxing falsehood both draconian and partially communistic  It is certainly liberal please Vince, notice how conservative preachers sound a lot like liberals who desire more government and taxes. When talking about money and church structure and time expecting preachers also want more money and more church government  

Now to show the similarity I will borrow from liberal statements blending money Tithe preaching into it Marx: " from each parishioner priest, 10% according to what he has to each local clergy preaching minister " " Kennedy: ask not unclerical priest how you can send your child to Christian school, but ask how you can send a local cleric minister preachers kid to Christian school or Bible college with your ten percent of income. " 
  Hillary Clinton: it takes a village ( local parish of parishioners giving to clergy) and a minister expecting 10% of someone's cash to save a soul. Money Tithes is not draconian and communistic  and then maybe we should reconsider indulgences sold by the Catholic Church leaders seek stable incomes. The Solution is church tithes.
Do Christians really sin when they fail to give 10% of their cash to local clergy preachers ministries where they attend? Vince if you view that doctrine a falsehood why is it not also as a taxing falsehood both draconian and partially communistic  It is certainly liberal please Vince, notice how conservative preachers sound a lot like liberals who desire more government and taxes. When talking about money and church structure and time expecting preachers also want more money and more church government 

  Now Vince to show the similarity I will borrow from liberal statements blending money Tithe preaching into it Marx: " from each parishioner priest, 10% according to what he has to each local clergy preaching minister " " Kennedy: ask not unclerical priest how you can send your child to Christian school, but ask how you can send a local cleric minister preachers kid to Christian school or Bible college with your ten percent of income. " 
Hillary Clinton: it takes a village ( local parish of parishioners giving to clergy) and a minister expecting 10% of someone's cash to save a soul. For Martin Luther it started with 95 small statements concerning money and then a revolution happened. Why not be radical Vince your beliefs are departing from the safe conventional false doctrines. 
Vince in closing, If Money Tithes doctrines are not partially draconian and communistic  and then maybe we should reconsider the accusations by Luther concerning indulgences sold by the Catholic Church during the time of Martin Luther. Please reply my friends who have read this novel as your time permits. Thank you for reading and debating it makes my day.
Well happy Halloween everyone remember everyday is all saints day. Everyone in Christ are holy ministering priest, but many traditional money entitled communistic vampires have nice suits and bibles. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 23, 2011, at 9:34 AM, "vi...@lavello.net" <vi...@Lavello.net> wrote:

David James

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Oct 27, 2011, 6:44:37 AM10/27/11
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I am so disappointed that there is too much concern about tithing among Christians than a passion for lost and backslidden souls. The commands and mission of Jesus Christ are directed towards the value (love) of these souls to Him, that is why he has called and anointed all of us as ministering priests to saturate the world with the Gospel of the Kingdom. It does not cost a dime to share the gospel to our neighbors, friends, relatives, workmates, school mates, and even strangers. He was crucified so that we all could have salvation, eternal life, deliverance, healing, joy, peace, etc, at no cost to us. He has already paid the price and has never demanded a tithe for none of these much needed-in-demand and desired things. They are priceless. Let us all do what we can with what we have. He is coming very soon. Let us start working and stop fighting with each other. This is one of the distractions of the devil and he is just loving it. Souls are dying every day without Christ while we fight over dirty money.
Obedience (giving of yourself) to Christ is the ultimate sacrificial giving.
 

Deuteronomy 18: 18-20

18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’

 

Matthew 17: 3-5

3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!”

 

Luke 6:46

“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

 

Joel 2:28-29

28“ And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

 

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

 

Matthew 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 10/24/11, Michael Reynolds <miket...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Douglas Wright

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Oct 27, 2011, 8:13:12 AM10/27/11
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Dear David,
I appreciate your zeal to look straight ahead to God's main objective for us, (and I agree whole heartily) to love our fellow man and the spreading of the Gospel. But should we put on blinders only looking straight ahead and not take the time to try to right the wrongs in the world and the church? Did Jesus not take the time to over throw the money changers tables and lecture them? As for as fighting, I don't think anyone is fighting here. We are only trying to speak up for what is right. Should we turn a blind eye while poor people are persuaded--through false teaching--to give what they can not afford to give and rich people are justified and even self-sanctified for giving less than what they can afford to give? Do you want to know a hard truth about yourself? Please understand that I'm not saying this to hurt you--because I know you have good intentions as a servant of our Lord--I'm saying this to hopefully help you to see, the devil has you confused and is working through you to try to confuse many people to the truth so he can further his work. Please take this with love and ponder on it. We are all deceived by the devil at times.

Doug

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Oct 27, 2011, 4:21:01 PM10/27/11
to Tithing & Stewardship Group
Dear David,
I hope you will forgive me for I have misunderstood your point of view
in your reply and I have falsely accused you. After sending my reply,
I read your reply again and realized that I erred in my
interpretation. I see now that you were not coming down on people,
such as are members in this group, who are trying to enlighten the
church about how God really wants us to give. Instead you were saying
that people who tithe should stop being so concerned about tithing and
should start doing the real work of the Lord, spreading the Gospel.
I've got now. Sorry! I broke out in a cold sweat when I realized my
mistake. I hope you have a sense of humor.
Douglas
> > *Obedience (giving of yourself) to Christ is the ultimate sacrificial
> > giving.*
>
> > *Deuteronomy 18: 18-20*
>
> > *18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren,
> > and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I
> > command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which
> > He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who
> > presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to
> > speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’*
>
> > ***** ***
>
> > *Matthew 17: 3-5*
>
> > *3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Then
> > Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if
> > You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses,
> > and one for Elijah.”5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud
> > overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This
> > is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!”*
>
> > *** ***
>
> > *Luke 6:46*
>
> > *“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?*
>
> > *Joel 2:28-29*
>
> > *28“ And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on
> > all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall
> > dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on My
> > menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
> > *
>
> > **
>
> > ***1 Peter 2:9
> > But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own
> > special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out
> > of darkness into His marvelous light;***
>
> > ****** **
>
> > *Matthew 28:18-20 *
>
> > *18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been
> > given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of
> > all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and
> > of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have
> > commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
> > Amen.*
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > --- On *Mon, 10/24/11, Michael Reynolds <miketwi...@yahoo.com>* wrote:
> ...
>
> read more »

David James

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Oct 27, 2011, 10:39:20 PM10/27/11
to ti...@googlegroups.com
Please do not misunderstand me. I was making a general statement with no reflection on this group. As a matter of fact we need this kind on dialouge, and thank God for the internet. We need to be aware of what's going around us. It is said that silence is consent. Only Jesus the authority to judge and to clean up His Father's house. The devil has already been defeated. We just need to walk in faith and victory. When we stand before Him on judgment day, we will only be able to speak for ourselves based on what he has commanded us to do as individuals and not what others have or have not done.

 

Romans 14:12
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

John 12:48

He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

John 12:48

He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

 

John 12:47
And if any man hears my words, and believes not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
 

John 21:20-23

20 Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?” 22 Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.
23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”

 

--- On Thu, 10/27/11, Douglas Wright <ghuw...@gmail.com> wrote:

David James

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Oct 27, 2011, 10:55:57 PM10/27/11
to ti...@googlegroups.com
Well taken, I had prayed about it. Please do not hesitate to respond to anything that is not clear to you. It motivates me to pray and to find better words to express my concerns. We sharpen each other. That's why group discussions are very much needed today. I also believe that is why Jesus selected and left a group of men who had to have a common consensus to do His will under the leadership of the Holy Spirit. He did not select a human leader to lead His people; He is the only leader. 
Feel free to visit my website http://www.riverolife.com
--- On Thu, 10/27/11, Doug <ghuw...@gmail.com> wrote:
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vi...@lavello.net

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Oct 27, 2011, 11:10:21 PM10/27/11
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Well I agree that tithing is not a mandate for Christians; as the law was nailed to the cross. (Col 2:14)
However that Law; Paul tells us is our "schoolmaster (tutor) to lead us to Christ" (Gal 3:24, Rom 7:7)

The principles in the Law still apply; say the Ten Commandments for instance.
I cannot willingly give approval nor consent to commit nor desire to commit any trespass against God's law without commiting sin.
If I do, I damage my conscience and sever my intimacy with God by transgressing; going over the line.
The fruit of my behavior is depraved character.
The fruit is what Jesus told us to inspect.
He said to listen to the pharisees but do not behave like them.

Prior to considering the idea of a tithe; I was a "hillarious" giver.
I heard a teaching which illustrated the "tithe principle" throuought scripture; I became convicted and since my only form of income is money; I began to tithe 10 percent of my income from the gross.

What was the fruit of this change?  1) I was no longer a hilarious giver.  2) I was more consistent and gave more over the long term. 3) I was more frugal. 
The law was a tutor which led me to a more consistent heavenward investment of my money.

I came across the tithe group; argued for a while and saw that indeed I was free to give freely.  I saw that God honored the widows mite more than the tithe.  I saw that Zaccheus gave 50%, of the rich man Jesus demanded 100% and of Anninias and Sapphira their hypocritical gift cost them their life.   I stopped "tithing" and began giving on my own recognasance.

What was the fruit of this change?
1) I gave where   I wanted, How much I wanted, and Whenever I wanted.
2) Over the long term I gave less, but in short bursts sometimes more.
3) I became less frugal; and have accumulated 10,000 dollars of credit card debt.

Lawlessness has led me away from Christ who through Paul teaches "do not owe anyone anything"

So now I stand in the barren desert of uncertainty.

Despising the law has degraded me; complying to the law was a benefit to my community of believers.

So; I have vowed to get out of debt and at some point, I may go back to a regular tithe; if the Spirit leads...
Since the Spirit is the author of the Law; perhaps Lawlessness leads to barenness of Spirit.
Double minded?
Or fruit inspector?


Thanks,
Vince Lavello

Cell: 714.209.1279



From: "Michael Reynolds" <miket...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 11:22 AM
To: "ti...@googlegroups.com" <ti...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [Tithing & Stewardship Group] New Member
 Thank you Vince for your participation. this is a novel and it is to all who debate Church tithing. Protestant day is October 31 st All saints day, it is the day Martin Luther posted 95 arguments that brought on large changes to how the world and Christians view the Church. Protestant day  also started wars and revolutions because bible interpretation and money were involved. I am now protesting laodician apathy concerning church finances.  You say you are Rich said John to the laodicians in revelations, Vince Please consult John 10 about hirelings and Good sheep herds.?This blog is revolutionary!  Anit-tithers here on this blog are anti-sheeple. 

All reading my protest what do yo think please do not tell me you are neutral. Vince I am accusing you of appearing double minded but I could be dead wrong please accept my challenges in love Jesus knows I'm pride-full and cowardly so often.  If I'm wrong i need correction.Please Vince and anyone correct us on this blog without vagueness pulling no punches if you love us. Should we be rebuked? Please I don't want to spread lying doctrines or hurt the Body of Christ. Where do you stand Vince brother, you been around tithe debate a long time I want to know where you stand?
  I will contact you again.Vince and those in the middle, This debate must trouble you I guess because you are a deep thinker. Let me please speculate about your heart, advising you Vince.  In my experience Evangelical Traditions are blinding seem harmless on the surface, devilishly sophisticated, political and strong friend. When I have thought I have moved beyond traditions I then find another unbiblical practice in my life. We should continually challenge all notions in Jesus. If one accepts the view to be anti tithe then it follows quickly that current modern Church structures are also open to hard questions. 
  The Priesthood of all in Christ is a radical statement you agree with but have you swallowed the troubling deep implications? All Christians are priest! My radical speculation from that point is that Church offices of Clergy and partitioners is a left over Catholic tradition still in the thinking of most Protestants today.Vince this is the opposite tone of us Jesus slaves and prisoners for Jesus. 
Vince, I love that you read the book Slave by John MacArthur. John MacArthur has been against Money tithe doctrines for more than 20 years. So was Martin Luther the great protestant performer, John Whycliff, Charles Spurgeon, JVernon McGee and  Steve Gregg my favorite current preacher. Maybe you come out for or against money tithes in the past I don't know maybe I missed or forgot your view. So Please soon Vince Pointblank make a clear decision statement on the standard doctrines of money tithe for Christian. 
I think preachers who feel entitled to a money tithe and who have succeeded upholding that tradition by collecting a money tithe in the name of Jesus have effectively undermined the giving freedom of fellow priest. 
The money tithe preachers are biting at and shearing sheep instead of crucifying their own fleshly earthbound desires for stable incomes. Who ahold bear the most financial risk Jesus Bible teaching leaders or the persons who know the least Bible?  With any christian  money tithe system the leaders are better off than the givers in financial risk. Good shepherd Preachers should live lives of risky love for Jesus not expect others to risk their finances putting local non profit Christian organizations above their own families.
 Vince you been around tithe debate a long time I want to know where you stand. I love that you read the book Slave by John MacArthur. John MacArthur has been against Money tithe doctrines for more than 20 years. So was Martin Luther the great protestant performer, John Whycliff, Charles Spurgeon, JVernon McGee and  Steve Gregg my favorite current preacher. Maybe you come out for or against money tithes in the past I don't know maybe I missed or forgot your view. So Please soon Vince Pointblank make a clear decision statement on the standard doctrines of money tithe for Christian. Do Christians sin when they fail to give 10% of their cash to local clergy preachers ministries where they attend? Vince if you view that doctrine a falsehood why is it not also as a taxing falsehood both draconian and partially communistic  It is certainly liberal please Vince, notice how conservative preachers sound a lot like liberals who desire more government and taxes. When talking about money and church structure and time expecting preachers also want more money and more church government  

Now to show the similarity I will borrow from liberal statements blending money Tithe preaching into it Marx: " from each parishioner priest, 10% according to what he has to each local clergy preaching minister " " Kennedy: ask not unclerical priest how you can send your child to Christian school, but ask how you can send a local cleric minister preachers kid to Christian school or Bible college with your ten percent of income. " 
  Hillary Clinton: it takes a village ( local parish of parishioners giving to clergy) and a minister expecting 10% of someone's cash to save a soul. Money Tithes is not draconian and communistic  and then maybe we should reconsider indulgences sold by the Catholic Church leaders seek stable incomes. The Solution is church tithes.
Do Christians really sin when they fail to give 10% of their cash to local clergy preachers ministries where they attend? Vince if you view that doctrine a falsehood why is it not also as a taxing falsehood both draconian and partially communistic  It is certainly liberal please Vince, notice how conservative preachers sound a lot like liberals who desire more government and taxes. When talking about money and church structure and time expecting preachers also want more money and more church government 

  Now Vince to show the similarity I will borrow from liberal statements blending money Tithe preaching into it Marx: " from each parishioner priest, 10% according to what he has to each local clergy preaching minister " " Kennedy: ask not unclerical priest how you can send your child to Christian school, but ask how you can send a local cleric minister preachers kid to Christian school or Bible college with your ten percent of income. " 
Hillary Clinton: it takes a village ( local parish of parishioners giving to clergy) and a minister expecting 10% of someone's cash to save a soul. For Martin Luther it started with 95 small statements concerning money and then a revolution happened. Why not be radical Vince your beliefs are departing from the safe conventional false doctrines. 
Vince in closing, If Money Tithes doctrines are not partially draconian and communistic  and then maybe we should reconsider the accusations by Luther concerning indulgences sold by the Catholic Church during the time of Martin Luther. Please reply my friends who have read this novel as your time permits. Thank you for reading and debating it makes my day.
Well happy Halloween everyone remember everyday is all saints day. Everyone in Christ is a holy ministering priest, but many traditional money entitled communistic vampires have nice suits and Bibles.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 23, 2011, at 9:34 AM, "vi...@lavello.net" <vi...@Lavello.net> wrote:

How does a church "impose" tithing - sounds so draconian and communist?
If a church 'imposed' anything can't you "vote with your feet?"
I don't know if not tithing these last 2 years has led to 'spirit led' giving or 'self'willed" giving.
I would be careful with the advice given here.


Thanks,
Vince Lavello

Cell: 714.209.1279



From: "jared" <jbb...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 8:42 PM
To: ti...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Tithing & Stewardship Group] New Member


We have a new member that has joined
New Member wrote:

I've been a sole opponent against tithing and a proponent for spirit led giving in my church for the last 2 years. After winning the battle at first, it appears I have recently lost the war. The leaders of the church agreed with me at first, but now the same leaders are supporting the imposition of tithing again. I believe your group would be interested in reading the full story including an article and letters on tithing I wrote to the church. I just posted them in my blog: http://godhelpuswedonthaveaclue.blogspot.com/, post: http://godhelpuswedonthaveaclue.blogspot.com/2011/10/article-and-letters-i-wrote-to-my.html

 

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Jared Bartholomew

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Oct 27, 2011, 11:54:53 PM10/27/11
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I am not sure what exactly you are saying below, but it seems there are many issues to address. First, a schoolmaster is/was not a teacher. Think of it as more or less a chaperone. Once again, a schoolmaster is NOT a tutor. You can read about jewish history to discover this.

If the 10 commandments are a good example of principles then we should obey the sabbath. I like to think of principles as transcendant. These principles existed before the law and even before the fall and should exist today as well.

There is nothing wrong with standards. If you need to budget your giving, then by all means. Freewill should not motivate anarchy and chaos. The absense of the law didnt provoke your debt. You are missing the point; it is the absense of the Spirit.

- jared

David James

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Oct 28, 2011, 1:08:12 AM10/28/11
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I believe that the 10 Commandments were written because these violations existed among God's people and He showed His disapproval by instituting these laws. Our speeding laws were not written and posted until speeding became a serious issue on our roads. If people did not speed, those traffic laws against speeding would not have been written. Therefore, the 10 Commandments let us know the kinds of actions practiced by Israelites that God does not approve of.
Today, Jesus is simply saying that if we love God and our neighbor, we will not steal from them, not kill them, not covet the belongings, if children love their parents, they will obey them, etc. What you desire for yourself, you desire for your neighbor. In Luke 10: 25-37, Jesus let us know that our neighbor is also someone of a different culture. In the Old Testament, God called them "strangers"
 

Luke 10:26-28

26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” 28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

 

Romans 13:9

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

 

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;

 

Leviticus 19:34
The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

                   

Exodus 22:21
“You shall neither mistreat a stranger nor oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt


--- On Thu, 10/27/11, Jared Bartholomew <jbb...@gmail.com> wrote:

David James

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Oct 28, 2011, 1:31:28 AM10/28/11
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I believe that some time in the near future, the congregants will rebel against the establishment churches because there in a great disparity between the congregants and the pastors/CEOs (Ezekiel 34). Since when is a servant (pastor) a multi-millionaire? That seems ironic. There are people in the congregation who faithfully paid their tithes and are now unemployed. Many of them are struggling to keep their electricity on and are in foreclosure while their pastors in believing God for a 3rd jet to add to his fleet or bragging about his Olympic-sized swimming pool; or hi entire family drives Mercedes, Bentleys or BMWs. I would not be surprised if an "Occupy Wall street" type revolution develops among the saints. people are getting wiser.

What do you think?


--- On Mon, 10/24/11, Michael Reynolds <miket...@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Michael Reynolds <miket...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tithing & Stewardship Group] New Member
To: "ti...@googlegroups.com" <ti...@googlegroups.com>

Douglas Wright

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Oct 28, 2011, 2:03:01 PM10/28/11
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Vince, I think you did a great job of explaining your beliefs and situation. And, I think that David and jared are right on the money with their analysis and advice. If you feel you need to discipline yourself on your giving, then by what ever means works for you, commit to systematic giving. However, if you feel you must do it because of guilt for not obeying the Jewish laws, you are doing it for the wrong reason. For you would have to obey all the Jewish laws to be sinless. No one has been able to accomplish this. Also, obedience to the law won't bring you closer to Christ. It sure didn't work for the Scribes and Pharisees. Nor will it help you to pay your debts. You can't get closer to God by submitting to works. You can go to church, tithe, read the bible, and pray and still be without Jesus. You don't have to struggle. You just have to submit your will to his will. He will let you know what his will is, you just have to know how to be quiet and listen. I'm really not trying to sell you on my blog because I'm not trying to make any money on it, but check it out, I do go into more detail on how to get closer to God.

David, I really hope you are right about a possible revolution among the saints against what's wrong in the churches. I just wish I had your optimism. For sure more people are becoming wiser to the truth. But in my little world here in the country in South Georgia. I'm the only one I know of around that is willing to stand up for the truth and most don't even want to know the truth. For doing so and obeying God's will, I am paying a high price. The church will no longer acknowledge me. Only one person has had anything good to say about my blog or my relationship with the Lord for that matter. Most of my so called friends in facebook ignore me or have blocked me. I only have one person, my friend, and her family, besides my two young kids, that believe in me. My own father yesterday told me he is done with me and to stay off his land. And my wife resents me. I'm not telling you this to get sympathy. I still love everyone for they know not what they do, but the only one I need to love me is God. This just shows that you have to be willing to sacrifice everything if you are to truly give yourself to the Lord. The problem with most people is they are not willing to do what it takes to make this revolution happen.

Michael Reynolds

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Oct 28, 2011, 4:48:49 PM10/28/11
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Praise Jesus Protestant day october 31st approaches. Vince and David thanks so much for blogging and talking by phone to me y'all made my week. I truly believe this blog facilitates fellowship it has truly Dicipled me because I read so many testimonies and   I have been lead to many new books by precious teachers. The writing makes me research and think hard in Jesus to respond. A win-win situation is good challenges of notions.  Friends and Vince this week, You have challenged and influenced me  in many things vince you spoke of on the phone.  It is brave love to put out your phone number  like Vince who gives loving challenges so here is mine is 916-804-2466 for Mike Reynolds, Jesus is the only true freewill-giver. for any desiring prayer Bible debate or some Jesus love. 
Yes everyone I can be quite mechanical a bad speller repetitive and over doctrinal but you Vince thanks again, you were most personal. I once held so strongly  to the conventional but you ask more questions than most that is a true leadership quality in Jesus sore lacking in modern fellowships. Thank you David and all for stimulating challenges.

I have this blog to thank for introducing me to Organic Christianity movements and ideas. The book Pagan Christianity and Watchman Nee have really commented allot about be our current traditions of what a pastor is are mostly unbiblical. Next to money tithing leadership structure is a huge entitlement factory of doctrines in the modern evangelical movement. Body of Christ, Why are there so many leaders speaking monologs called sermons when Jesus and the Disciples asked and answered so many questions even from their enemies. 

Who can really argue for our current practical definitions of pastor without tradition being the main ingredient? Tradition is a strong reason why most view the term pastor as an office. Also pastor practice is mainly solo and denominational. Evangelical Leaders are in practice mostly CEO/head pro speakers of a local church non profit organization registered by the state. Is our status quo even close to the biblical model? What is the "local church" anyways, were not all christians in a region called a church in the bible ? Whats the difference between a prophet elder and a pastor or an evangelist according to the new testament? Few church organizational evangelicals even attempt to ask such questions very often. Biblical debate and challenges in  church "services" are rare that is the opposite character  of Jesus and his service on earth. Evangelical traditions.Yes our logical first is first traditions make leaders who are mostly unquestioned. Additionally almost never debated other notions are tithes church structure and the word pastor. What is a pastor folks what are they suppose to do should they be in pairs like the disciples, or in threes like Moses Miriam and Arron. Is a pastor a teacher bishop or elder the other words are used more often. Ephesians 4:11 there are some pastors and teachers. That is the only reference in the new testament. But most of the so called pastors  I have met really avoid questions about their presumed authority as shepherds. who fleece sheep of money tithes feel entitled to so much!  We evangelicals have very little biblical deep thought on Christian leadership and we follow ideas from business and history with our top down    Church governments. We also prop up the ideals of pop culture the Roman Catholic Church with our current entitlement models tacked onto the word pastor. What is Christian leadership is it Jesus slave service to the world? Can more titles, militaristic and political practices be combined with what the bible teaches to produce more disentitled humble leaders? I argue that misunderstandings of one new testament bible verse that contains the word pastor be a This article states my feelings much better.

David James

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Oct 29, 2011, 10:39:47 AM10/29/11
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Stay encouraged Bro. Douglas. Jesus said that He will never leave us nor forsake us (Hebrews 13: 5). All through church history, reformation started by one person. Almost every denomination or religion was started by one person who was inspired. At the end of three years of crusades, Mohammed of Islam had 3 followers. The prophets of old were loners; nobody liked them. Jesus was so hated in His own city that He could not even perform many miracles in that city. Just stay close to God and obey what he tells you. I have also been isolated. In the final analysis, you would have to answer to Him and not any human. They all have to answer to Him and not to their church leaders. The church leaders will have to an account for themselves to Him.
 

Romans 14:12
So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:2-4

2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

That spirit is in the church today especially among some church leaders. 

 

Mark 6:4-5

4 But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.” 5 Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.

 

Matthew 10:36 (read the whole chapter)
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

 

Matthew 7:13-14

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 
Read also Matthew chapter 13

Romans 8: 31-38

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” 37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


--- On Fri, 10/28/11, Douglas Wright <ghuw...@gmail.com> wrote:

David James

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Oct 29, 2011, 1:57:13 PM10/29/11
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Is there a New Testament role for pastors?  (Surf the internet for "The Shepherding Movement")

There are over 100 translations and versions of the Bible of which according to the United Nations 1998 Census on Religions, there were at that time, 23,000 Christian denominations and they all somewhat differ. It is therefore important to research as many of them as you could to see which ones line up with the actual teachings and actions of Jesus Christ. The word “Christian” means “follower of Jesus Christ”.

Jesus is the only shepherd of the sheep and He will lead us. He never assigned anyone else to a position of shepherd or under-shepherd. God established this fact. He left twelve apostles along with many other disciples to work together to continue His mission on this earth. He also notified His disciples that He will send the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us after His departure (John 14; 16:5-15). We must be able to recognize His voice. The reason Jesus expressed concern about Peter’s love for Him is because “if we love Jesus, we will faithfully obey His specific commands” (John 14:15). Jesus our leader commanded Peter three times in succession to feed His sheep, not to lead (control) them. The original use of the word ‘pastor’ was not found in the Hebrew Bible. The word shepherd was used. The word pastor comes from the Greek word "poimen" meaning shepherd or from pasco, pastum, which means to feed. The Hebrew word for shepherd is רעה (raʿah) which was used 173 times and can describe the feeding of sheep as in Genesis 29:7 or the spiritual feeding of human beings as in Jeremiah 3:15, "And I will give you shepherds according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding" . Note: The original script did not contain the word pastor, but shepherd. Many bible translations do not include the use of the word pastor, but shepherd. In the Old Testament, the leaders of God’s flock were called shepherds. In Deuteronomy 18: 15-19, God announced the coming of Jesus as the only credible spokesman for Him. In Ezekiel 34: 23, God declared that He was going to separate the shepherds of that time, from His sheep and send them one shepherd, His son Jesus Christ. In Matthew 17: 4-6, God affirmed that Jesus was the only one that He has chosen to speak to His flock. And in Matthew 23:8-10 and John 10: 1-16, Jesus established Himself as the only Shepherd of God’s flock. God ended the period of the shepherds/pastors when Jesus came. In Ephesians 4:11, the word pastor may have been added because some translations do not mention it, and if God said that Jesus is the only shepherd, how can God make some of his people shepherds. God will not contradict Himself. A shepherd feeds, and to spiritually feed is to teach. Therefore, in some translations, to use the word pastor/shepherd as in Ephesians 4:11(and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers), would be repetitive. This finding takes us back to the first mention of the spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:27-31 in which the name pastor was not mentioned. In my research I also noticed that the titles “bishop” and “deacon” were not included in some translations. They have used "elder", “overseer” and “servant” . I believe that is why some ministries are careful to label their “pastor” as the leading elder, or everyone in the church body as brother or sister “x”. (Read Matthew 23:8-12)

 

Matthew 23:8-12

8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

Michael Reynolds

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Oct 29, 2011, 2:16:38 PM10/29/11
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Everyone that can should read James Excellent post about the word pastor if they are interested in church structure! Praise Jesus for fellowship! Everyone participating thank you! James that's off the chain blessing study brother! I will fact check the stuff but it sounds authoritative. Why did I fail to research the word pastor and shepherd see what  sitting passive during many sermons often produces, a lack of critical thinking. My anti tithe blogging needs some more rigor at time but after hearing this pastor post they will contain some of your ideas you just posted if it is correct. James praise Jesus you are teaching because your research on the word pastors is turning my notions into a serious more concrete belief. Outrageous shepherd means to feed! This is game changing info for entitled folks who expect 10% of their flocks cash each week.
We are the body of Christ all who are in Christ!

Sent from my iPhone

Karam Tascoe

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Oct 29, 2011, 10:32:42 PM10/29/11
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Guys,
Im encouraged that I am not alone. I was starting to think there was something wrong with me!

Karam Tascoe

Michael Reynolds

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Oct 30, 2011, 5:58:39 PM10/30/11
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We Might as well call anti-tither syndrome a kind of phobia. There really seems to be cycle or natural consequences that follow most who change there money tithe to local non profit beliefs. When Evanglicals recover from compulsive Mechanical donations under threat of heaven, cursed outside of 10% to pro preachers ministries phobia is still present for years if not decades! For longtime church money tithers the fear of cursed outside of 10% to pro preachers ministries phobia : failing to COP10%2pros or 10%topropreachers ministriesphobiahas been a habit in their lives connected to believing in Jesus. When feeling the effects of  10%topropreachers ministriesphobia Jesus is the only answer!

Sent from my iPhone

David James

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Oct 31, 2011, 9:00:01 AM10/31/11
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Purpose of Tithing and Giving

The real essence of tithing in the Old Testament and giving in the New Testament was not to receive blessings or appease God. The tithe or giving supported the priests or ministers because they could not own any real-estate or secular employment, and lived on the establishment’s campus. The tithe or giving also supported the widows and orphans, others that were in need, and the upkeep of the campus. We give because we recognize the needs and respond accordingly as God has blessed us. He will then reward us for our kindness of heart. The campus structures were built by the members of the congregation who had the skills to fulfill the different tasks needed to complete the structure. People donated the materials. The structures were debt-free.

I do not think that God would bless His people with a building (especially a church), vehicle, etc, along with the burden of struggling to pay exorbitant interest rates; or having His people that He loves so much, placed under immense pressure paying more than three times the value of the item, knowing that if a payment or two is missed, that loan would go into default with the possibility of loosing everything that was put into it.

God has promised us freedom and abundant life, and not bondage.  Here are a few scriptures to best express my concerns.

 

Proverbs 22:7
The rich rules over the poor, And the borrower is servant to the lender.

 

Exodus 35: 1-35

30 And Moses said to the children of Israel, “See, the LORD has called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah; 31 and He has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom and understanding, in knowledge and all manner of workmanship, 32 to design artistic works, to work in gold and silver and bronze, 33 in cutting jewels for setting, in carving wood, and to work in all manner of artistic workmanship. 34 “And He has put in his heart the ability to teach, in him and Aholiab the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan. 35 He has filled them with skill to do all manner of work of the engraver and the designer and the tapestry maker, in blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine linen, and of the weaver—those who do every work and those who design artistic works.

 

Haggai 1:1-15

7 Thus says the LORD of hosts: “Consider your ways! 8 Go up to the mountains and bring wood and build the temple, that I may take pleasure in it and be glorified,” says the LORD.

 

Deuteronomy 28:12-14

12 The LORD will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 And the LORD will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. 14 So you shall not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

 

Deuteronomy 14: 27

You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.

 

Ezekiel 34                                                                                                                               

1 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them.

 

Malachi 3:10
Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this,” Says the LORD of hosts, “ If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it

 

Acts 4: 31-37

31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need. 36 And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus, 37 having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

 

James 1:27

27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

 

Luke 6:34-36

34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.

 

Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”

                                                      

2 Corinthians 9:5-7

5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren to go to you ahead of time, and prepare your generous gift beforehand, which you had previously promised, that it may be ready as a matter of generosity and not as a grudging obligation. 6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

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