Replying to post here with positive developments with Appcelerator and recent pledges of support from Kevin Whinnery today on our recent #tidesdk channel on freenode. I post excerpts below for reference. I believe we are finally on right track to move forward with the code base with appropriate commitments. Have received several indications of support and thank those who took time to communicate directly. We need additional minds that possess deeper skill set. If you have c++, ObjC, xcode, msvc, scons, webkit, python skills and can lend a hand, please join us on #tidesdk. Our initial priorities are to triage bugs, document the build process, clean up the code where necessary, and sandbox code on OSX so that there may be continued access for apps on AppStore. Please be patient with us, progress is bound to be a bit slow at onset as this is a large codebase. I encourage anyone with an interest to start with a code study to gain insight.
It is interesting reading and you will immediately identify with the potential that exists in the code base to enhance the capabilities of the desktop api, learn how Kroll plays a special role as a bridge for objects for the multi-language support (which is a unique trait in this code).
[5:23pm] kwhinner: fairwinds wrt the three things you asked specifically - the legal issue needs to be taken care of asap regardless - have our legal counsel working on that now for desktop specifcally
[5:23pm] fairwinds: and kroll involvement in that code also?
[5:23pm] kwhinner: yes
[5:23pm] fairwinds: great
[5:24pm] kwhinner: wrt to a communications channel, that is bounded by the personal time and availability of one guy - Josh Rosselin. He is the only member of the desktop team still on staff
[5:24pm] fairwinds: what of other two points. on the third the office support time, a more flexible arrangemment woulb be plus
[5:24pm] fairwinds: I see
[5:24pm] kwhinner: he can and has been answering e-mails on a best effort basis
[5:25pm] fairwinds: yes, perhaps if he could drop into this channel also from time to time
[5:25pm] fairwinds: would be great
[5:25pm] fairwinds: perhaps set up a bot so he can see what we are up to
[5:26pm] kwhinner: I'll alert him that it exists. He's been working round the clock on Android, so his time is likely to be limited. That's why I thought it might be better to try and carve out specific office hours so he can time box a certain chunk of time to talk desktop
[5:26pm] fairwinds: but can certainly seek him out as needed.
[5:26pm] fairwinds: kwhinner: this is certainly helpful
[5:27pm] fairwinds: on issue of donation. I am hoping we can get a kickstart. It is really needed. I think can help recruit help and find some folks with interest
[5:27pm] kwhinner: with regard to a donation to fund bug fixes, I'm not in support of that. Not because I don't want to spend $25K on desktop. Because I don't want to throw $25 K at a problem and hope that it helps (like our public education system, but I digress)
[5:27pm] kwhinner: we can talk about specific needs
[5:28pm] kwhinner: for actual hard costs
[5:28pm] fairwinds: hmm. what we need is something that can accelerate the process in short term
[5:28pm] kwhinner: happy to help in many ways on that front
[5:28pm] kwhinner: wrt hard costs
[5:28pm] fairwinds: I think the funds would hellp in this regard
[5:29pm] fairwinds: k, listening
[5:29pm] kwhinner: as I mentioned before, we are willing to help allay costs so that no out of pocket investment is required of contributors, like hosting, tools, etc.
[5:29pm] kwhinner: happy to do that as needed
[5:30pm] kwhinner: but funding development has no guarantee to produce a viable project. It has to be community driven
[5:31pm] fairwinds: kevin, understand this position but is only incentive to get folks to take interest initially, a short term crutch until we develop a more solid core of folks to hack on this stuff
[5:31pm] fairwinds: Please see what you can do
[5:32pm] fairwinds: an could be a good will gesture also
[5:32pm] fairwinds: since many folks realy did not want desktop to disappear so there is continued interest
[5:32pm] kwhinner: I'm not sure it even works as a crutch. If the project had 25K to spend on developers, where would we find them? Who would administer the fund? Appcelerator hasn't the time to do so and perform oversight. TideSDK has no treasury or accountability mechanisms
[5:32pm] fairwinds: but most of these folks are js ony types
[5:33pm] kwhinner: right
[5:33pm] kwhinner: which is the core problem
[5:33pm] kwhinner: a community of developers beyond end users with C programming and Webkit hacking skills needs to emerge to support the codebase
[5:34pm] fairwinds: first, there were a couple of us to help identify priorities for the work. I would be happy if we arrive at priorities and came to you with small funding requests to draw down for concrete bounties
[5:34pm] fairwinds: so I have no problem cash remains with you, just that is set aside
[5:34pm] fairwinds: for such efforts
[5:36pm] kwhinner: I'm not going to be able to set aside budget for $25K for desktop development. I have some flexibility with DR budget that I am happy to apply for small things that can help the project's contributor cost to remain at zero, but I'm not likely to be able to get dedicated funding, nor do I necessarily agree that it's a good idea if I could. Funding specific bounties at a certain level could maybe happen, on a pre-approve
[5:37pm] kwhinner: for maybe something like "get this to compile on Linux"
[5:37pm] fairwinds: I would be happy with pre-approved bounties at certain level
[5:37pm] kwhinner: "and document the process"
[5:37pm] fairwinds: sure
[5:39pm] fairwinds: I want this approach also. I want to see a bit of a code clean up, better build documentation, a build bot, and to see things moving so folks can have some faith that something will come from this
[5:39pm] kwhinner: Then maybe we do this: Identify the top level technical tasks that need to get done. Schedule an office hours session with Josh - maybe he can help get a rolling start on the biggest ones. After the community takes a crack at them, maybe then we consider doing a bounty or two to get past some key early hurdles
[5:40pm] fairwinds: that is a reasonable start. I would also like it we could encourage help through channels you have available to see if we can scare up some more people
[5:41pm] fairwinds: ie the public appcelerator channels
[5:41pm] fairwinds: ie blog, qa and such
[5:41pm] blackorzar: Agree
[5:41pm] fairwinds: beyond our own capability for pr
[5:41pm] fairwinds: that would be meaningful also
[5:41pm] blackorzar: thanks for helping this to get moved
[5:41pm] kwhinner: that can certainly happen - I would like to see a plan put together, and specific tasks that the project needs help on
[5:42pm] fairwinds: kevin, I think best short term plan is we may triage buglist and focus on sandboxing
[5:43pm] fairwinds: or we loose capability with apple appstore soon
[5:45pm] fairwinds: I appreciate this so we can put bad feelings to bed and work on somehting more positive
[5:46pm] fairwinds: important thing is moving forward and there is a need to see something anything
[5:46pm] kwhinner: you should have admin now
[5:46pm] fairwinds: happen in the code base
[5:46pm] fairwinds: k, appreciate, thank you
[5:46pm] fairwinds: on legal side soon you think?
[5:47pm] kwhinner: I certainly hope so, though I don't know what else is on Nina's plate
[5:47pm] kwhinner: we actually only had a dedicated counsel for about a month now
[5:47pm] fairwinds: I mean no later than end of month
[5:47pm] kwhinner: which is nice to have one in house
[5:47pm] fairwinds: ah, i see
[5:47pm] blackorzar: kwhinner: In the email list there are some posts about the building system... I'm not sure about appcelerator strategy for that... do you know what it is?
[5:47pm] fairwinds: yeah I bet
[5:48pm] kwhinner: blackorzar the build server is proprietary software which we could potentially get released.
[5:49pm] fairwinds: this would be super actually. thing is that we can improve or modify once we have some experience with what you were doing specifically
[5:49pm] blackorzar: ok that sounds great
[5:50pm] kwhinner: https://github.com/appcelerator/titanium_build
[5:50pm] kwhinner: this is the configuration for our CI server, which built the desktop packages
[5:50pm] kwhinner: would be a good way to look at distributing builds int he early going
[5:51pm] fairwinds: k, super yes. I know hudson
[5:52pm] kwhinner: i will try and get the build server for the app packager open sourced
[5:52pm] kwhinner: it's PHP which calls these scripts
[5:52pm] kwhinner: so not super complex
[5:53pm] kwhinner: it just requires an AWS setup with the necessary OSes
[5:53pm] fairwinds: sure
[5:53pm] fairwinds: that would be great
[5:55pm] fairwinds: have to get going to eat something, but appreciate this very much. I will write note to indicate the help this is receiving an your pledges
I tried to get the community involved by creating a logo competition for TideSDK but not 1 person entered, instead all we have get is 'is this ready yet', 'add node' etc. This is not done overnight people & we are all doing this is our own FREE time! The repository is there to be forked, if you want to add the features - by all means go ahead, please contribute to the community project guys.
-- ******************* Chris Banford CEO Dihedrals Ltd. ch...@dihedrals.com www.dihedrals.com *******************