Dave. Thanks for the SL Tour

[Naomi Krant]

Dave,   Thanks for showing Second Life to Keren, Mirielle, and me.  I've long been curious about it and never would have seen much of any interest if I'd wandered in by myself.  As a former devotee of the Myst series, I enjoyed it  (even though SL is really a different animal than Myst).

As far as using the education locations in an ESL class, I have one big question.  I'm not sure if my experience there was complete enough so that this question is valid, but:  can you manipulate much of anything in SL?  That is, besides clicking on selections in drop-down control boxes.  I mean, can you pick things up and hand them to other people, actually use tools to make things, easily move things around in order to count them---that sort of thing?  That, to me, is the dimension of reality that VR lacks but that many learners--most learners-- need.  Granted, in the real classroom we often only manipulate paper and pencil or marker and whiteboard, and perhaps keyboarding is just as good....(???)  But we do as much 'realia' in the classroom as possible, too.  

And another thing--can you pair students and have a number of pairs or small groups practice a dialogue with each other or discuss a point and reach a conclusion, all at the same time?  If no, there must be many standard classroom techniques that don't work in VR.  Have you discovered other techniques that do work in VR but don't work in the real classroom?

Thanks for a very provoking experience.  I'll probably go back.

Naomi

[Keren]

Hi Dave, Naomi and Mirielle,
Second Life was a great experience! I can see how people get addicted
to it...
At some point I lost you guys, so I hope you continued to explore
other interesting places. I most certainly want to go back to
Princeton and see which courses they offer.
Thanks for a wonderful journey,
Keren

[David]

Wow.... let's see... I'll try to answer each question in CAPS below in
the text.

On Jan 25, 7:24 pm, Naomi Krant <klim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave,   Thanks for showing Second Life to Keren, Mirielle, and me.  I've
> long been curious about it and never would have seen much of any interest if
> I'd wandered in by myself.  As a former devotee of the Myst series, I
> enjoyed it  (even though SL is really a different animal than Myst).
> As far as using the education locations in an ESL class, I have one big
> question.  I'm not sure if my experience there was complete enough so that
> this question is valid, but:  can you manipulate much of anything in SL?
>  That is, besides clicking on selections in drop-down control boxes.  I
> mean, can you pick things up and hand them to other people, actually use
> tools to make things, easily move things around in order to count
> them---that sort of thing?  That, to me, is the dimension of reality that VR
> lacks but that many learners--most learners-- need.  Granted, in the real
> classroom we often only manipulate paper and pencil or marker and
> whiteboard, and perhaps keyboarding is just as good....(???)  But we do as
> much 'realia' in the classroom as possible, too.

YOU ASKED IF YOU CAN MANIPULATE OBJECTS IN SL. THE ANSWER IS YES BUT
PROBABLY IN A DIFFERENT WAY FROM MYST BECAUSE SL IS NOT A GAME AS SUCH
WHERE YOU ACCUMULATE POINTS, SOLVE PUZZLES, ETC. (ALTHOUGH THERE IS A
BIT OF THAT IF YOU LOOK FOR IT). RIGHT CLICK ON AN OBJECT AND CHOOSE
'EDIT'. IF THE OBJECT HAS NOT BEEN FROZEN BY ITS OWNER, YOU WILL BE
ABLE TO MOVE IT, RESIZE IT, RECOLOR IT, ETC.

PUT DIFFERENTLY, AS I WROTE BEFORE, SL IS GOOD FOR BUILDERS (THAT
WOULD INCLUDE DESIGNERS) AND SCHMOOZERS. IT'S NOT SO GOOD FOR GAMERS
OR CHILDREN/TEENAGERS WHO NEED SOME KIND OF SPECIFIC CHALLENGE WITH A
PRIZE AT THE END. I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THE 'TEEN GRID' BUT GRAHAM
STANLEY IN THE YW&LL WORKSHOP WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL YOU IF THAT'S MORE
'GAME' ISH....

INDEED FOR ME THE WHOLE PROBLEM WITH SL AS AN EDUCATIONAL MEDIUM IS
THAT IT APPEALS MORE TO ADULTS WHO ARE LOOKING TRULY FOR A KIND OF
"SECOND LIFE" THEN TO KIDS TO ARE JUST LOOKING TO MAKE THEIR FIRST
LIFE MORE ENTERTAINING..... THUS IT IS VERY POPULAR WITH EDUCATORS
BUT I THINK MUCH LESS SO FOR STUDENTS.

THAT'S WHY I RECOMMEND GIVING VERY SPECIFIC TASKS (SUCH AS BUILDING)
AND MAKING THE EXPERIENCE LIKE A 'CONTENT-BASED' CLASS MORE THAN A
GRAMMAR OR VOCABULARY CLASS PER SE. THUS TEACHING STUDENTS HOW TO
BUILD AND LETTING THEM BUILD (IDEALLY IN PAIRS OR GROUPS FOR MORE
COMMUNICATION) WOULD BE AN ENGAGING FOCUSED ACTIVITY STUDENTS COULD
GET INTO.

>
> And another thing--can you pair students and have a number of pairs or small
> groups practice a dialogue with each other or discuss a point and reach a
> conclusion, all at the same time?  

PAIR/SMALL GROUP WORK:

IT CAN BE DONE BUT AS WITH EVERYTHING IN SL IT REQUIRES A SLIGHT BIT
OF TECH SAVVY. USING "IM" STUDENTS CAN PAIR OFF. USING "GROUPS"
STUDENTS CAN BE IN SMALL GROUPS.
MEET ME IN SL AGAIN AND I'LL SHOW YOU HOW IT'S DONE.

If no, there must be many standard
> classroom techniques that don't work in VR. Have you discovered other
> techniques that do work in VR but don't work in the real classroom?

SL VS. CLASSROOM. EACH HAS ITS PROS AND CONS. YOU CAN'T JUST
DUPLICATE STUFF THAT WORKS WELL IN THE CLASSROOM AND EXPECT IT TO WORK
WELL IN SL. THE MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE. LIKEWISE STUFF THAT WORKS
WELL IN SL MAY NOT WORK WELL IN THE CLASSROOM.. TRIAL AND ERROR :)
(MOSTLY ERROR BUT OH WELL....)

[Naomi Krant]

Dave, 

Thanks for your lengthy response!  I apologize for not getting back to you sooner.  I have to admit that I got discouraged because I couldn't access last week's meeting, so just let the gmail notifier drop off my toolbar.  

Yes, SL looks fascinating to me, but I think that it's not a realistic match for my current group of students.  I'd love to teach international students, though, and they would probably love to learn there.  

Naomi

P.S., as I'm about to write to Vanessa, I left the gmail notifier off too long and checked back in yesterday to find a bunch of very interesting stuff going on about writing!  After I'd read up the column, though, I arrived at your latest post about this morning's meeting and discovered that again I could not attend.  That is disappointing.  I should have thought that in this day of Intel-chip Macs that this discrimination would be over.  Well, so be it.  

[David]

Indeed it's a pity Naomi about Macs and PCs. In any event the GG part
of the discussion was very rich so I hope you enjoyed that. I'll try
to fix it so that Sunday will be in a Mac-friendly space.

On Feb 8, 12:15 pm, Naomi Krant <klim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave,

> Thanks for your lengthy response!  I apologize for not getting back to you
> sooner.  I have to admit that I got discouraged because I couldn't access
> last week's meeting, so just let the gmail notifier drop off my toolbar.
>
> Yes, SL looks fascinating to me, but I think that it's not a realistic match
> for my current group of students.  I'd love to teach international students,
> though, and they would probably love to learn there.
>
> Naomi
>
> P.S., as I'm about to write to Vanessa, I left the gmail notifier off too
> long and checked back in yesterday to find a bunch of very interesting stuff
> going on about writing!  After I'd read up the column, though, I arrived at
> your latest post about this morning's meeting and discovered that again I
> could not attend.  That is disappointing.  I should have thought that in
> this day of Intel-chip Macs that this discrimination would be over.  Well,
> so be it.
>

[Naomi Krant]

Yes, I've got pages of links to web sites and documents gleaned from the GG discussion that I am working through, and they are good!