Is Geberit A Good Brand

[Custodio Groves]

Priorto commencing my big refurb journey (more of a voyage really), I thought Geberit was the market leader in concealed cisterns. I had no evidence to base that on, it's just what I assumed. Chatting to a friend the other day who is a property developper, he told me to stay clear of Geberit because their design means that there is a greater risk of a mistake being made upon installation as they have a peculiar fitting at one end of the pipe that comes out below the cistern. Apparently, the same junction on the Grohe models is a traditional screw ring fitting which is idiot-proof as you just tighten it to fit it. He said he'd had a few of the Geberit models leak at that problematic fitting and advised going for Grohe cisterns, with any old company for the frame.

In the showroom I visited today I asked the salesperson what she thought, and she said there's no difference between the two companies, they are both "just above entry level products" and that she recommends Tece "because that is what Toto specify for their toilets and Toto are the market leaders". No idea if this is evidence based either.

Curious as to people's experience with any of these three companies' concealed cisterns. We already touched on this in the other thread on toilets I started, which had some very useful observations (not to mention the banter*), but I thought this merited its own thread.

The only problem I had was trying to attach the pan - I held the pan whilst SWMBO turned the Allen key to tighten the bolts clockwise - whats wrong with that you may ask as clockwise is the correct direction to tighten - Not when looking from above so its actually anti clockwise ? - After some choice words we swapped and it all went smoothly

It was the high quality support videos that tipped the balance for me. Our plumber had never fitted a Geberit - knowing that, I created a comprehensive Geberit Aqua Clean Tuma Classic playlist on YT and made sure he had access to an old Samsung tablet which was connected to our WiFi. Despite this he made one or two fitting errors. Easily identified. Easily corrected.

Past a certain point, it's questionable whether you'll notice the difference. A problem every 20 years in a domestic setting is really good performance and really not worth paying extra to fix. The same level of reliability in a high-end hotel would mean failures every few weeks which would be utterly unacceptable.

they are both "just above entry level products" and that she recommends Tece "because that is what Toto specify for their toilets and Toto are the market leaders". No idea if this is evidence based either.

he told me to stay clear of Geberit because their design means that there is a greater risk of a mistake being made upon installation as they have a peculiar fitting at one end of the pipe that comes out below the cistern.

Alas, having started this post more than a month ago I still haven't managed to order a toilet frame and cistern or a flush plate. I seem to verge on having a nervous breakdown every time I try. In the Grohe range for example, how does one work out if the different parts are compatible with eachother? For example, are the following three bits compatible:

Will the inspection chamber increase the thickness of the installed unit, or can I still conceal all of this within a 18cm studd wall? I just find the diagram from Grohe incredibly unclear. I've pasted it below. It clearly says the max wall thickness is 230mm, but what's the minimum achievable with this unit? And the 10-70mm figure, is that an additional thickness to your wall of 10mm if you don't have an inspection chamber or 70mm if you don't?

Thanks @Vijay that's such a good idea. I had a look at their website to try and find the answers but was none the wiser, do assumed they won't that "customer facing" but clearly I was wrong. What frame/cistern did you go for in the end?

I should clarify, in case I haven't already, that the nervous break down thing is because my eyes are allergic to chrome. They much prefer brushed brass, brushed gold or matt black. Whilst some of these options are available in the Grohe and Geberit flush plate ranges, they are astronomically expensive!!! Upwards of 200 for just the flush plate. Now I may be may be mad enough to have an allergy to chrome, but I'm not mad enough to pay 250 for a geberit flush plate in "fine brass".

I'm now considering Vitra, as they do some very nice flush plates for 20 in matt black. The frame comes with a 7 year guarantee, so hoping it is fine, but if anyone has any experience, good or bad, of Vitra toilet frames and cisterns, grateful if you could share.

Looks like this as well as wall-mount both require having the tank and all associated bits installed behind in the wall cavity: and note that this is an additional cost (total costs pushing $1k USD). Probably a good recommendation to have some sort of access panel available: I'm trying to design with this in mind for all plumbing connects.

I would stick to brands that have been making these for a long time. Can't go wrong with Toto or Duravit. Not sure how much I would trust local manufacturers. Also make sure there is local support, even the best toilets will need valves swapped out over time and it is a pain if you can't find it locally.

Andy, I used caroma wall hungs in my latest build. They work well and they're good toilets in terms of cleanliness, flushing, splash out, streaks, etc. But please be warned, there are real nuances to installing wall hung toilets mostly in the preplanning.. I put them in myself because I don't know any plumbers that put in wall hungs before, Or would come back every so often to during the different phases of construction. So I went through the hard knocks learning the intricacies myself. And let me tell you, they're nothing like floor mount toilets. Not wrong or bad, just different.

- Either one is relatively easy to install, you just need to decide how high you want your seat height to be before installing;

- Gerberit is compatable with a lot more toilet bowls, Toto is only compatible with its own bowls;

- Gerberit has a much better selection of wall plates;

- The instructions provided with each suck, but that is typical of plumbing products;

- The bowls are easy to install, but make sure you have the gasket. Toto comes with the gasket, but you have to buy the kit with Gerberit;

- If you plan on getting a bidet seat, Toto includes the water line connector in the wall frame. Gerberit did not at the time, but I have not checked recently.

- They really do save a lot of room, they look better and I would use them on the next project.

I hadn't heard of Swiss Madison. It seems the company is about five years old, and it acts primarily as an importer of Chinese made fixtures. A few reviewers on Amazon have complained about missing parts, but those comments might have something to do with the pandemic.

Steve, I'd only grabbed Swiss Madison from a quick Google after seeing the horrible reviews of Kohler on Kohler's site. I take reviews with a grain of salt, mostly requiring a large sample size before I have a truer sense of real world performance; I understand that people who have issues are more likely to comment/review than those who do not. A bit troubled to hear of any disappointment with Toto as I've thought of them as being the gold-standard: I was going to replace the WCs in my current place with Toto but that got set on-hold when I started thinking about a full, new build.

I was feeling kind of excited about these wall mounts (and the ones that go right up against the wall- sit on the floor but have the tanks in the wall) until I started thinking about maintenance and my environment/context. I'm on a well. WC tanks got a bit crudded up (rust); I have done a lot of work to mitigate all this (long story), but it just sits there in the back of my mind; it's a feeling similar to thinking about on-demand water heaters caking up with calcium (I don't have calcium issues), having such units installed inside walls (which, of course, one shouldn't do, but you get the idea). Also, having water connections in a wall makes me a bit nervous: I realize that hidden connections are common; it's just something that I'd have to get over I suppose.

People commenting on Kohler products complained about insufficient water. Kohler said to raise the water level in the tank: seems pretty obvious to me! I didn't look over the installation documentation, in which case maybe it's noted there, but it seems it should be mandatory to have an access point post-installation: one can often see access panels in commercial installations; if you don't see one from the user-side then there's one on the back side of the wall.

For a good year now, the Polish Geberit sales company has been busy with a major project. Eight years after Geberit acquired the Koło ceramic brand as part of the Sanitec group of companies, a large part of the product range previously managed under the Polish brand is becoming Geberit. This is five ceramic ranges including furniture, which account for more than 60% of sales of ceramics and furniture in Poland.

Over 500 exhibitions replaced

Re-branding the ceramics formerly labelled as Koło is only a small part of the work. It is a major project that has tested and united us as Team Koło, says Krzysztof Brzezinski, Head of Marketing & Products. Around 40 people from various disciplines are involved in the brand change, half of them intensively. More than 500 showrooms all over Poland had to be re-equipped, product catalogues and digital configurators had to be set up anew. From packaging and logistical processes to the redesign of the website, which is used by up to 1.5 million customers a year, the project encompasses all areas of work from production to marketing and sales.

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