Geared 2

[Leoma Cianchetti]

Iam curious from the Luthier's who have installed Wittner Pegs. They are heavier (40 g for a fitted set, vs 14g for the "boxwood" ones that came with my instrument). I am curious if anyone has noticed a tonal difference adding the weight from those pegs or Peghed/Perfection pegs.

I've installed a few sets in my violins and violas, but recently I used a set "temporarily" to test a new viola while I was waiting for some fancier boxwood pegs to arrive. I didn't notice any difference when I switched over to the boxwood.

I've fitted a lot of these.

No one ever commented that the tone was impaired as a result, I never noticed this myself either. No one seemed to notice the weight difference, as this has never been mentioned.

Everyone did comment on how easy they were to use.

I use them, like them a lot, the only tonal changes I've noticed are a lessened need to retune the strings, and my E-string seems to me to sound better than when using a more conventional fine tuner.

In fitting them, I find that first fitting the tip to the tip hole, then gently tapping it out, doing a spiral bushing to the shank hole, and carefully reaming that separately for the shank to fit correctly is often necessary.

I love the Wittners as well, I haven't had to tune my main violin in two weeks (plus no fine tuner on the E throws people off all the time). I haven't noticed a tone or weight difference, although my instrument is very light so the added Wittner weight doesn't affect my playing.

I didn't test them directly, but last year I did a test adding four separate weights on each peg to get the weight of the Wittners. The tonal difference I have heard is actually small, but there was an audible difference though. My feeling was a slight "compression" on the bass, as if the sound were more defined but less open, with less harmonic richness (even if small, it was necessary to concentrate carefully to define it). On the treble, E string especially, in the first instance it seemed to me that they improved, but more than anything else I think it was the slight loss on the bass that perhaps put them more in evidence, in the end I had concluded that essentially they had not changed. The overall sensation was of a slightly more muffled sound, the feeling was more evident every time I removed the weights because I had the impression that the sound opened up and gained a bit of liveliness, but much less noticeable the other way round, i.e. putting the weights on.

It must be said that adding or removing weight can have different effects, both positive and negative, from instrument to instrument, and I think the differences may be negligible for some but perhaps annoying for others.

Besides, my test was not a blind test, so psychology may have distorted the results, not to mention the poor statistical value of the test on a single violin. But I had fun doing it, also because I only listened (and changed the weights), who had to work harder was the violinist.

Aside all of the usual benefits (stability of tuning, ease of it, ease of changing strings, etc) in the 2 violins which were objected by the intervent i noticed an increment of the "body of sound". In one of my instruments more than the other. And also a bit more of sustain.

I have to say, also, that in all of my violins i use sort of "trademark" tailpieces which permit to tune the non bowed part of the string between the bridge and tailpiece. I set all of the strings to resonate with a 1/6th of their length in that part. It seems to assure, when tweaked properly, a homogeneus comparison between before and after changing some elements (be it strings or pegs).

Greetings.

I think with any change of pegs there could be a change of tone, how this is perceived will depend on the individual, and their requirements. As I said previously, I have never felt the tone was seriously impaired by the change.

While on M'net everyone is chasing the 'ultimate tone', I haven't always found this quite the same with musicians, who in many cases care as much about practicality and stability while performing.

It's clear from at least one poster that the idea of these pegs is totally abhorrent to them.

My clients range in age from young, to very old. Both ends of the spectrum seem to appreciate Wittner pegs, but for some of my older clients it is enabling them to keep on playing, when their arthritic hands can no longer turn and push the pegs enough to stop them slipping later.

This is an interesting option, the smaller Wittner pegs for 4/4 violin have a 7.8 mm shaft diameter and weigh 40 g for 4 pegs. Can I ask you how much smaller is the head of 1/2 pegs than that of 4/4? The head of the 4/4 ones is 22.2 mm wide and about 20 mm tall.

In fact, I consider them rather ugly to look at, with a very plastic appearance and ergonomically the heads are too thick and tend to be too slippery, but from a functional point of view I suppose they can work very well.

Clearly they are more stable in case of sudden drops in ambient humidity, when traditional pegs would lose their grip if the pressure is not compensated pushing them in to restore the optimal one. However, one thing that worries me is when there are increases in ambient humidity, where while with traditional pegs the pressure would be kept optimal due to the costant movement for routine tuning, with the Wittner it would create an increase in pressure on the wood of the pegbox , creating possible favorable conditions for the development of cracks, especially if the pegbox walls are particularly weak or thin.

Another advantage of traditional pegs is that they can be adjusted to keep the heads in the most comfortable position for tuning (more or less vertical) while Wittner and geared pegs in general will always be in a more or less random position.

Perhaps the design is limited by the gearing? It can only be reduced so much I suspect, in order to still work. They do look plastic because they are, no getting round this. From a few feet away I'm not so sure it's as obvious, compared to holding the scroll in one's hand.

I think pegboxes have a tough time anyway. How many were split in the past from poorly fitting pegs being jammed in? Add to this cracks, bushings, worm damage etc, there can be a lot going on (obviously none of these on new instruments). All I can say is that so far, there have been no problems I'm aware of, from increased humidity levels here. I appreciate in other countries, humidity fluctuations may be different to the UK.

What you say about the head angle is true, but the tension on the heads is so light, that unless they are at a really unfavourable angle, it's still easy enough with finger and thumb. I think the biggest downside to the wittners is the amount of turning required when changing strings. You really need to use the crank they supply, otherwise it takes so much longer.

It looks like they have tried to use a blurry photo of rosewood, but the colour is very pale and does not look right to me personally. On the pegs, only the head is rosewood coloured, the shanks are just black.

I originally had them installed because the peg holes were very big and there was a crack on the treble side A-peg hole. I did not want to spend the money on bushings at the time. I switched back to friction pegs for the traditional look and feel, not function.

By the way, my luthier was able to remove the geared pegs without any problems, and they can be re-used. The Perfection pegs are threaded, but the Wittner pegs are not. I have used both, and both seem to work well, but I slightly prefer feel of the Wittner.

I agree with Davide that they are not the prettiest pegs out there. Since the gears are in the end housing (instead of the shaft, like PegHeds), I guess there is only so much that can be done about the look.

I will say that while well-fitted pegs are great, the precision and stability is the appeal of the geared pegs. I use both Wittner and friction and I really prefer the Wittners. So far I can't tell a difference in tone, but I was curious if anyone else had heard a sound difference. Now I need to make 6g weights to attach to the pegs to try Davide's experiment for myself.

3a8082e126