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ferguso...@gmail.com
Jan 27, 2009, 9:51:06 PM1/27/09
to TinyCircusTalk
First draft of the Popcorn film is up on TCT - questions posted on
this page. Perhaps some thoughts from Alien Hand? Aleah?
New Tiny Circus member Travis is going to work on the music, long
distance from Austin!
Click on http://groups.google.com/group/tinycircustalk/web/ho-popcorn-edit
- or copy & paste it into your browser's address bar if that doesn't
work.
this page. Perhaps some thoughts from Alien Hand? Aleah?
New Tiny Circus member Travis is going to work on the music, long
distance from Austin!
Click on http://groups.google.com/group/tinycircustalk/web/ho-popcorn-edit
- or copy & paste it into your browser's address bar if that doesn't
work.
Jenn
Jan 28, 2009, 9:36:52 AM1/28/09
to TinyCircusTalk
I think the fade in from black would read more as morning if it was
still slightly dim when the sun starts to come up. As it is it's full
light and then you see the sun rise. Can you do any color filtering in
PhotoShop to give it the color variation of sunrise? A little reddish-
orangish-pink as it goes from dark to daylight?
I love the universal opening credits by the way.
still slightly dim when the sun starts to come up. As it is it's full
light and then you see the sun rise. Can you do any color filtering in
PhotoShop to give it the color variation of sunrise? A little reddish-
orangish-pink as it goes from dark to daylight?
I love the universal opening credits by the way.
Jason Reitz
Jan 28, 2009, 12:03:40 PM1/28/09
to TinyCircusTalk
As I watch it the zoom ins on the space ship and the plane read a
little funny to me, I really like the zoom in on the space ship gives
it a good playful look, but the one on the plane just kind of breaks
up that scene for me, and I think just a swift fly by with the butter
would read better for me. I don't know if you can do it but maybe a
zoom in at the beginning of the plants growing to kind of put a little
moment of suspense and celebration to that moment of life when a plant
germinates and grows... that would be cool I think.
Good job on getting travis in on this, I will look forward to hearing
from him also... Peace
little funny to me, I really like the zoom in on the space ship gives
it a good playful look, but the one on the plane just kind of breaks
up that scene for me, and I think just a swift fly by with the butter
would read better for me. I don't know if you can do it but maybe a
zoom in at the beginning of the plants growing to kind of put a little
moment of suspense and celebration to that moment of life when a plant
germinates and grows... that would be cool I think.
Good job on getting travis in on this, I will look forward to hearing
from him also... Peace
Vinick, Aleah
Jan 28, 2009, 12:06:22 PM1/28/09
to tinycir...@googlegroups.com
I am very busy and important, so I just took a quick second to look at this, but it looks so much better than the rough version! I agree with Jenn on light filtering, and similarly wonder if the light can be kindof greenish when the ufo comes in. Or reddish? Also, the zoom in on the butter plane seems a little jerky. Love that alien hand! Also love how the end credit is alien green.
Laura Ferguson
Jan 29, 2009, 10:36:23 AM1/29/09
to TinyCircusTalk
I thought the alien hand was a food service worker at the movie
theater. Butter plane seems jerky, I agree. I like jason's solution.
theater. Butter plane seems jerky, I agree. I like jason's solution.
grace le maitre
Jan 29, 2009, 11:30:31 AM1/29/09
to TinyCircusTalk
It's looking really good! I agree with the idea of the fade-in
continuing through the start of the actual rising of the sun. Slight
sunrise-y color shifts in the beginning that progressively lessons
into the scene as it is, would very look. The close-up on the
spaceship is tacky-beautiful! But the cut to close-up on the butter
plane takes me away more than it draws me in. Maybe the arm of the
alien hand be non-flesh-colored...green, purple, blue?
continuing through the start of the actual rising of the sun. Slight
sunrise-y color shifts in the beginning that progressively lessons
into the scene as it is, would very look. The close-up on the
spaceship is tacky-beautiful! But the cut to close-up on the butter
plane takes me away more than it draws me in. Maybe the arm of the
alien hand be non-flesh-colored...green, purple, blue?
Carlos Ferguson
Jan 29, 2009, 11:32:14 AM1/29/09
to Laura Ferguson, TinyCircusTalk
Oh Boy. Alien hand isn't going to like this.
--
www.carlosferguson.com
www.currentlocation.blogspot.com
On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Laura Ferguson <lfer...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
I thought the alien hand was a food service worker at the movie
theater. Butter plane seems jerky, I agree. I like jason's solution.
www.carlosferguson.com
www.currentlocation.blogspot.com
grace le maitre
Jan 29, 2009, 11:39:30 AM1/29/09
to TinyCircusTalk
just enhancing whats already there!
same arm, different color.
and I just noticed how many words are missing in my comment...
its kinda like a mad lib!
On Jan 29, 10:32 am, Carlos Ferguson <ferguson.car...@gmail.com>
wrote:
same arm, different color.
and I just noticed how many words are missing in my comment...
its kinda like a mad lib!
On Jan 29, 10:32 am, Carlos Ferguson <ferguson.car...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Oh Boy. Alien hand isn't going to like this.
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Laura Ferguson
> <lfergu...@iowatelecom.net>wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Laura Ferguson
greta
Jan 30, 2009, 11:40:29 AM1/30/09
to TinyCircusTalk
I like the fade from the credits. That seems to work just fine. The
black fade doesn't read as morning because of the rising of the sun
AFTER the black fade happens. I like the slowed down focus on the
UFO...reads great!!! The last row of corn is a bit hard to read, but
I think people would be quick to put it all together once the other
rows start coming in...not sure about that one....maybe a REALLY
zoomed in version from dirt to full stalk if possible, but I don't
know if we have those shots...maybe you could use a zoomed in set of
shots from the row closest to the camera and then zoom out to show the
whole field growing. Does that make sense???
black fade doesn't read as morning because of the rising of the sun
AFTER the black fade happens. I like the slowed down focus on the
UFO...reads great!!! The last row of corn is a bit hard to read, but
I think people would be quick to put it all together once the other
rows start coming in...not sure about that one....maybe a REALLY
zoomed in version from dirt to full stalk if possible, but I don't
know if we have those shots...maybe you could use a zoomed in set of
shots from the row closest to the camera and then zoom out to show the
whole field growing. Does that make sense???
greta
Jan 30, 2009, 11:43:51 AM1/30/09
to TinyCircusTalk
I am a bad bad discussion-er.....just quickly read the top issues then
commented...basically realized that I said the same as the other
posts! oops. I'm with Jason on that whole germinating/ growing
moment....that's what I'm imagining!
commented...basically realized that I said the same as the other
posts! oops. I'm with Jason on that whole germinating/ growing
moment....that's what I'm imagining!
ferguso...@gmail.com
Feb 2, 2009, 12:00:36 PM2/2/09
to TinyCircusTalk
Hey, new version of popcorn up on this page.
The sunrise is longer and slower and the light happens more when the
sun comes up - a little more room for the first sounds, travis.
The corn growing is zoomed in.
The clouds linger a bit longer to have some time to see the scene.
Butter plane is no longer zoomed....
Any thoughts? It seems fast in places to me, but slowing it more will
make it jerkier...
Carlos
The sunrise is longer and slower and the light happens more when the
sun comes up - a little more room for the first sounds, travis.
The corn growing is zoomed in.
The clouds linger a bit longer to have some time to see the scene.
Butter plane is no longer zoomed....
Any thoughts? It seems fast in places to me, but slowing it more will
make it jerkier...
Carlos
ferguso...@gmail.com
Feb 2, 2009, 12:07:17 PM2/2/09
to TinyCircusTalk
Link to vid page below
Laura Ferguson
Feb 3, 2009, 8:42:54 AM2/3/09
to TinyCircusTalk
I like the closer views of the corn and the butter plane reads much
better! Food service worker hand looks like an alien now.
better! Food service worker hand looks like an alien now.
ferguso...@gmail.com
Feb 3, 2009, 2:16:40 PM2/3/09
to TinyCircusTalk
Newest popcorn, now with music.
Sounds great Travis!
two thoughts (from me): what about moving the popcorn bells a measure
or two earlier so that they match with the first bits of popcorn -
then the rest of the theme could come in when it does, a mini-buildup.
could the music fade to zero as the final credit is running? The way
the rest of them have worked is the music starts at the same time as
the title bar comes up, then ends just as that tinycircus.org thing
comes up. I'm not sure how we will fit them all together in the show,
so this standard seems good to give us some room when we put them
together.
Sounds really great to me - I really like how the plant-growing sound
starts on the off-beat and matches perfectly with the growth! The ufo
music is a perfect match for the tin spaceship.
the clicks and pops come with mp3s for some reason. If you could send
me the final version as a quicktime or a wav then I can convert it to
48k 16bit for the film. Then it gets converted again for output.
Any thoughts from others?
Sounds great Travis!
two thoughts (from me): what about moving the popcorn bells a measure
or two earlier so that they match with the first bits of popcorn -
then the rest of the theme could come in when it does, a mini-buildup.
could the music fade to zero as the final credit is running? The way
the rest of them have worked is the music starts at the same time as
the title bar comes up, then ends just as that tinycircus.org thing
comes up. I'm not sure how we will fit them all together in the show,
so this standard seems good to give us some room when we put them
together.
Sounds really great to me - I really like how the plant-growing sound
starts on the off-beat and matches perfectly with the growth! The ufo
music is a perfect match for the tin spaceship.
the clicks and pops come with mp3s for some reason. If you could send
me the final version as a quicktime or a wav then I can convert it to
48k 16bit for the film. Then it gets converted again for output.
Any thoughts from others?
Jenn
Feb 3, 2009, 2:51:58 PM2/3/09
to TinyCircusTalk
I grew up a farm girl, with grandparents who farmed all their life and
the first time I watched this with the music I got a little emotional.
It's awesome. I love the growing music and the happy celebration of
life it suggests.
The only thing that didn't jive for me was the abrupt change from the
"regular farm music" to the "UFO music". Not that I don't like the UFO
music...it was just a very abrupt transition for me...which I guess
the UFOs unexpected appearance is kind of abrupt so maybe it's
perfect.
I love how the music returns to the "farm" theme after the UFO flies
away. Like it's normal for UFOs to come pop your corn and then life
goes on. It makes me smile :)
the first time I watched this with the music I got a little emotional.
It's awesome. I love the growing music and the happy celebration of
life it suggests.
The only thing that didn't jive for me was the abrupt change from the
"regular farm music" to the "UFO music". Not that I don't like the UFO
music...it was just a very abrupt transition for me...which I guess
the UFOs unexpected appearance is kind of abrupt so maybe it's
perfect.
I love how the music returns to the "farm" theme after the UFO flies
away. Like it's normal for UFOs to come pop your corn and then life
goes on. It makes me smile :)
Carlos Ferguson
Feb 3, 2009, 5:18:59 PM2/3/09
to Jenn, TinyCircusTalk
I agree about the slightly jarring effect of the ufo music, from pastoral and happy to computer space age happens very fast - though maybe that's how it should be? First time through I thought it was too much of a change, then each time I listened I liked it more.
What are the possibilities for splitting the difference?. In the first version, Travis, you had the theme go all the way under the ufo scene, the space-music was just put over the top. That worked well I thought, though now there is this nice build back up from the space-sounds. Could something carry on, maybe some melodic thing, under the ufo, and then have the same build up after (when the popcorn comes, ufo leaves) with the bells and clapping?
C--
www.carlosferguson.com
www.currentlocation.blogspot.com
What are the possibilities for splitting the difference?. In the first version, Travis, you had the theme go all the way under the ufo scene, the space-music was just put over the top. That worked well I thought, though now there is this nice build back up from the space-sounds. Could something carry on, maybe some melodic thing, under the ufo, and then have the same build up after (when the popcorn comes, ufo leaves) with the bells and clapping?
C
www.carlosferguson.com
www.currentlocation.blogspot.com
Jason Reitz
Feb 3, 2009, 5:32:22 PM2/3/09
to Carlos Ferguson, Jenn, TinyCircusTalk
I really enjoy this, the music fits well and has a real farmy feel...
the alien thing I like and think maybe just like a half a second pause
in the music, just kind of like a what the....heck moment... or just an
empty space so the view has time to take in the view for a moment and
then the sound otherwise might seem as thought the sound and view is so
changed that it overwhelms for a second.. know what I mean..... Looks
good though. Keep up the good work, how about a HO online feedback..
ha ha...
Later hope all are beautiful
Jason
Later hope all are beautiful
Jason
Travis Jeffords
Feb 3, 2009, 6:58:15 PM2/3/09
to Carlos Ferguson, Jenn, TinyCircusTalk
Yeah...I think what might sound best is if I dropped out everything except the repeating piano figure (it's not as mechanical and menacing as it was in the first draft Carlos, so hopefully it will keep some of the happy pastoral feel), and then bring down some of the levels of some of the more aggressive computer sounds, as well as fade things in a bit more so it seems more transitional...
great comment, that was something that I was also concerned about but wasn't sure if it was just me, so I'm really glad that you pointed it out Jenn.
travis
great comment, that was something that I was also concerned about but wasn't sure if it was just me, so I'm really glad that you pointed it out Jenn.
travis
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Carlos Ferguson <ferguso...@gmail.com> wrote:
Kim
Feb 3, 2009, 11:21:15 PM2/3/09
to TinyCircusTalk
First... I want to say thanks for including me in this discussion
group. It's been fun to see the process and hear all of the thoughtful
comments/suggestions.
I really enjoy this movie... it's so creative and playful and I notice
something new every time I watch. I like the changes made to the
sunrise and I LOVE the new folksy music... nice work, Travis! I agree
that the spaceship music (which sounds very spaceshipy and scary)
starts a bit abruptly but it sounds like you've got a plan for that.
The alien hand at the end make me laugh! Very entertaining... good
work, Tiny Circus!
group. It's been fun to see the process and hear all of the thoughtful
comments/suggestions.
I really enjoy this movie... it's so creative and playful and I notice
something new every time I watch. I like the changes made to the
sunrise and I LOVE the new folksy music... nice work, Travis! I agree
that the spaceship music (which sounds very spaceshipy and scary)
starts a bit abruptly but it sounds like you've got a plan for that.
The alien hand at the end make me laugh! Very entertaining... good
work, Tiny Circus!
ferguso...@gmail.com
Feb 4, 2009, 3:46:50 PM2/4/09
to TinyCircusTalk
Another version of popcorn, Travis fixed ufo sounds and added hand
claps to end.
Sounds really great with the piano under the ufo - what about the
claps at the end being a touch softer in volume? The last tweak?
Visually, does the ufo scene need to be under red or green light?
Comments
claps to end.
Sounds really great with the piano under the ufo - what about the
claps at the end being a touch softer in volume? The last tweak?
Visually, does the ufo scene need to be under red or green light?
Comments
Sarah Salway
Feb 4, 2009, 4:27:46 PM2/4/09
to ferguso...@gmail.com, TinyCircusTalk
Oh I love this. Just a couple of thoughts - at the start when the music comes in at 'The History of Popcorn' could there still be the sound of the typewriter?
The UFO made me laugh once more - really good. Re the Alien Hand, is it possible to cut off the wrist so we just see the green? And also not to have it coming in twice - the unexpectedness of it at the end seemed to me to be what was most important.
Sarah
www.sarahsalway.com
From: "ferguso...@gmail.com" <ferguso...@gmail.com>
To: TinyCircusTalk <tinycir...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 4 February, 2009 20:46:50
Subject: [tinycircustalk:55] View this page "HO Popcorn-Edit"
From: "ferguso...@gmail.com" <ferguso...@gmail.com>
To: TinyCircusTalk <tinycir...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 4 February, 2009 20:46:50
Subject: [tinycircustalk:55] View this page "HO Popcorn-Edit"
ferguso...@gmail.com
Feb 5, 2009, 8:47:34 PM2/5/09
to TinyCircusTalk
Sarah, do you mean just eliminate the very last alien hand? I could
zoom that one a bit, or even do a gradual zoom through that entire
period so that the alien hand is larger on the screen at the very
end...
I'll see what the typewriter sounds like, but I think it might
interfere with the main music.
The fact that there is no typing sound (in any of the animations) for
the title page has seemed a bit strange to me, but I figure if the
music always comes in at that point, when the actual title comes up,
it won't seem too strange....
c
On Feb 4, 4:27 pm, Sarah Salway <sarahsal...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Oh I love this. Just a couple of thoughts - at the start when the music comes in at 'The History of Popcorn' could there still be the sound of the typewriter?
>
> The UFO made me laugh once more - really good. Re the Alien Hand, is it possible to cut off the wrist so we just see the green? And also not to have it coming in twice - the unexpectedness of it at the end seemed to me to be what was most important.
>
> Sarah
>
> www.sarahsalway.blogspot.comwww.sarahsalway.com
>
> ________________________________
> From: "ferguson.car...@gmail.com" <ferguson.car...@gmail.com>
zoom that one a bit, or even do a gradual zoom through that entire
period so that the alien hand is larger on the screen at the very
end...
I'll see what the typewriter sounds like, but I think it might
interfere with the main music.
The fact that there is no typing sound (in any of the animations) for
the title page has seemed a bit strange to me, but I figure if the
music always comes in at that point, when the actual title comes up,
it won't seem too strange....
c
On Feb 4, 4:27 pm, Sarah Salway <sarahsal...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Oh I love this. Just a couple of thoughts - at the start when the music comes in at 'The History of Popcorn' could there still be the sound of the typewriter?
>
> The UFO made me laugh once more - really good. Re the Alien Hand, is it possible to cut off the wrist so we just see the green? And also not to have it coming in twice - the unexpectedness of it at the end seemed to me to be what was most important.
>
> Sarah
>
> www.sarahsalway.blogspot.comwww.sarahsalway.com
>
> ________________________________
> To: TinyCircusTalk <tinycir...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 4 February, 2009 20:46:50
> Subject: [tinycircustalk:55] View this page "HO Popcorn-Edit"
>
> Another version of popcorn, Travis fixed ufo sounds and added hand
> claps to end.
>
> Sounds really great with the piano under the ufo - what about the
> claps at the end being a touch softer in volume? The last tweak?
>
> Visually, does the ufo scene need to be under red or green light?
>
> Comments
>
> Click onhttp://groups.google.com/group/tinycircustalk/web/ho-popcorn-edit
> Sent: Wednesday, 4 February, 2009 20:46:50
> Subject: [tinycircustalk:55] View this page "HO Popcorn-Edit"
>
> Another version of popcorn, Travis fixed ufo sounds and added hand
> claps to end.
>
> Sounds really great with the piano under the ufo - what about the
> claps at the end being a touch softer in volume? The last tweak?
>
> Visually, does the ufo scene need to be under red or green light?
>
> Comments
>
ferguso...@gmail.com
Feb 8, 2009, 11:06:00 PM2/8/09
to TinyCircusTalk
Popcorn animation - some minor edits - towards the end there is now
just one set of hands coming in to eat the popcorn before the alien
hand (now without Aleah arm) finished things off. Check this out and
let me know if it is better?
Music seems finished - Travis, that new version seemed clipped, like
the levels were too high, but the last version is fine, I don't think
the claps are too loud after listening a few more times.
Otherwise, this one is done?
Carlos
Click on http://groups.google.com/group/tinycircustalk/web/ho-popcorn-edit
just one set of hands coming in to eat the popcorn before the alien
hand (now without Aleah arm) finished things off. Check this out and
let me know if it is better?
Music seems finished - Travis, that new version seemed clipped, like
the levels were too high, but the last version is fine, I don't think
the claps are too loud after listening a few more times.
Otherwise, this one is done?
Carlos
Click on http://groups.google.com/group/tinycircustalk/web/ho-popcorn-edit
Travis Jeffords
Feb 8, 2009, 11:29:41 PM2/8/09
to ferguso...@gmail.com, TinyCircusTalk
Looks great to me.
travis
travis
Sarah Salway
Feb 9, 2009, 3:20:25 AM2/9/09
to ferguso...@gmail.com, TinyCircusTalk
Oh, I think this is amazing. I've just watched it twice and laughed both times. And the music is great too.
Sent: Monday, 9 February, 2009 4:06:00
Subject: [tinycircustalk:59] View this page "HO Popcorn-Edit"
Subject: [tinycircustalk:59] View this page "HO Popcorn-Edit"
Jenn
Feb 9, 2009, 9:34:57 AM2/9/09
to TinyCircusTalk
It looks great.
Brea was watching it with me and at the start she goes "Good-morning
Farm!" so I think the sunrise reads :)
I like the switch at the end with the hands and the cropped alien
hand. It really does have that sense of surprise and gives me a laugh
every time I watch it.
Seeing this finished is so special as it was my first experience out
at TC with the animation. I watch the windmill and laugh about how we
couldn't remember which was it was turning so it sometimes goes
backwards. I think of Carlos sitting under the table "un-growing" the
corn. I watch the sun rise with joy knowing I helped with that part. I
remember how we had to pick all those little pieced of "butter" out of
the field and replant the bush off to the side. So many good, funny
memories.
Brea was watching it with me and at the start she goes "Good-morning
Farm!" so I think the sunrise reads :)
I like the switch at the end with the hands and the cropped alien
hand. It really does have that sense of surprise and gives me a laugh
every time I watch it.
Seeing this finished is so special as it was my first experience out
at TC with the animation. I watch the windmill and laugh about how we
couldn't remember which was it was turning so it sometimes goes
backwards. I think of Carlos sitting under the table "un-growing" the
corn. I watch the sun rise with joy knowing I helped with that part. I
remember how we had to pick all those little pieced of "butter" out of
the field and replant the bush off to the side. So many good, funny
memories.
Vinick, Aleah
Feb 9, 2009, 9:55:20 AM2/9/09
to tinycir...@googlegroups.com
I also LOVE how it looks, and the music! It's great! Aleah
Carlos Ferguson
Feb 12, 2009, 10:07:39 AM2/12/09
to Sarah Salway, TinyCircusTalk
Popcorn is Popped!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWeRbok9px4&fmt=22
This is a link to the high resolution version. If your connection is slow, you can click on a link just below the video window to watch in a low res version. Also, there is a button in the lower right corner of the video window that allows you to watch full screen.
Great work, Circus! It's great to get this one done - so many people worked on it, and it was a fun weekend in August...
Carlos
--
www.carlosferguson.com
www.currentlocation.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWeRbok9px4&fmt=22
This is a link to the high resolution version. If your connection is slow, you can click on a link just below the video window to watch in a low res version. Also, there is a button in the lower right corner of the video window that allows you to watch full screen.
Great work, Circus! It's great to get this one done - so many people worked on it, and it was a fun weekend in August...
Carlos
www.carlosferguson.com
www.currentlocation.blogspot.com
Marie Lister
Feb 12, 2009, 4:24:44 PM2/12/09
to Sarah Salway, Carlos Ferguson, TinyCircusTalk
Oh I thought it turned out so well! Nicely done all! I thought the alien-hand edit and easing into the UFO music turned out particularly well. Lovely lovely.
~Marie
--- On Thu, 2/12/09, Carlos Ferguson <ferguso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Carlos Ferguson <ferguso...@gmail.com>
> Subject: [tinycircustalk:64] Re: View this page "HO Popcorn-Edit"
> To: "Sarah Salway" <sarah...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Cc: "TinyCircusTalk" <tinycir...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 9:07 AM
> Popcorn is Popped!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWeRbok9px4&fmt=22
>
> This is a link to the high resolution version. If your
> connection is slow,
> you can click on a link just below the video window to
> watch in a low res
> version. Also, there is a button in the lower right corner
> of the video
> window that allows you to watch full screen.
>
> Great work, Circus! It's great to get this one done -
> so many people worked
> on it, and it was a fun weekend in August...
>
>
> Carlos
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:20 AM, Sarah Salway
> <sarah...@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>
> > Oh, I think this is amazing. I've just watched it
> twice and laughed both
> > times. And the music is great too.
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* "ferguso...@gmail.com"
> <ferguso...@gmail.com>
> > *To:* TinyCircusTalk
> <tinycir...@googlegroups.com>
> > *Sent:* Monday, 9 February, 2009 4:06:00
> > *Subject:* [tinycircustalk:59] View this page "HO
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