AP Calculus exam ???.... When do you use Solve() versus nSolve()???

[Hartman, Bruce]

I watched the TI-Webinar last Tuesday about calculator use on the Ap Calc Exam and picked up a bunch of "calculator efficiency" tips I shared with my students.  One thing to me is still fuzzy, when do I want numerical solve versus the regular solve ?  I love that you can also limit the search domain with the | ("such that" bar). 

Bruce

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[Dennis Donovan]

Because you can limit the domain of the solution with "| domain", I would think you would always use solve().  I don't recall if the "| domain " was available in previous versions of the software, but I wasn't aware of it and when solving a trig equation I would advise using nsolve(), but now that I know about the domain on solve(), I advise that they always use solve() because it will give multiple solutions whereas nsolve() only gives 1.

Dennis

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From: "Hartman, Bruce" <bhar...@wccsk12.org>
To: tinspire <tins...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 12:58 PM
Subject: [tinspire] AP Calculus exam ???.... When do you use Solve() versus nSolve()???

I watched the TI-Webinar last Tuesday about calculator use on the Ap Calc Exam and picked up a bunch of "calculator efficiency" tips I shared with my students.  One thing to me is still fuzzy, when do I want numerical solve versus the regular solve ?  I love that you can also limit the search domain with the | ("such that" bar). 

Bruce

Confidential Notice: This email, and any attachments to it, may contain confidential information. It is intended for use by the individual or entity named as the recipient on the email. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivery to the intended recipient, you should not read, use, copy or disseminate the information. Any unauthorized use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete and destroy this communication immediately and notify the sender by "reply" or phone of the error.

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[Sean Bird]

I agree. In all the years using the Nspire for teaching and helping students learn, explore and succeed on the AP Calculus exam I have never found need for numeric solve, but frequently recommend limiting the domain. It is also a great tip to limit the viewing window BEFORE graphing especially when provided with a domain to be considered.

[Jody Crothers]

 

 
HI all
I am working on a table to record results
students have three attempts.
I would like the best attempt to be generated automatically.
best:=Max({att_1,att_2,att_3})didnt work
any suggestions

cheers
Jody

[John Hanna]

Here’s one that works…

 

Best Regards,

         John Hanna

         jeh...@optonline.net

         www.johnhanna.us

         T³ - Teachers Teaching with Technology

         http://education.ti.com

[Kim Thomas]

Are your students Nspire Numeric users or CAS users?

As a CAS user there is no need to use nSolve, however a numeric Nspire user is limited to the calculating capabilities of the TI-84 and cannot use solve in most instances.  However, the numeric solver is available when the student can provide a reasonable "guess".   (see attachment)

I tried to solve a few of the problems posted using the numeric teacher software and got error messages for solve, but not for nsolve. 

My next question is "How many teachers know that there is a numeric solver on the TI-84 and can they use it?"  Until recently, I never used the solver in the 84 and wonder when students should be exposed to that feature on any technology device.  My first interpretation of "Find zeros if functions" was to graph a function and use the "zero" feature.  The webinar has opened my eyes to another interpretation if the required use of a graphing calculator statements.

[Sean Bird]

I wonder if more TI-Nspire CAS users will increase in Illinois, since they are changing from being an ACT state (no CAS permitted) to paying for all juniors to take the SAT (where the TI-Nspire CAS is permitted). CAS is permitted on many College Board tests, like the PSAT, AP Calc, AP Physics, AP Stat, AP etc.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-illinois-chooses-sat-met-20160211-story.html

- Sean Bird

From the neighboring state of Indiana,

where I would recommend that our graduation exams be replaced with PSAT, SAT.

[Hartman, Bruce]

So it appears as it can not find the "max" but only the greater of 2 values? That's a bit deceiving.

Bruce

[John Hanna]

max() can take a list as an argument, but not a list of lists.

 

An alternate method could be:

But the formula in D1 does not paste well into the other cells in column D. Perhaps the subscript 1 is too deep in the formula?

 

I’m also thought of writing a function to do 1-var stats on each row list and then returning a list of stat.maxx’s:

But the function is not allowed to use OneVar!

 

 

Best Regards,

         John Hanna

         jeh...@optonline.net

         www.johnhanna.us

         T³ - Teachers Teaching with Technology

         http://education.ti.com

 

[Regina Henschel]

Hi,

Hartman, Bruce schrieb:

> So it appears as it can not find the "max" but only the greater of 2
> values? That's a bit deceiving.

You can use the "seq" function to fill column E

=seq(max({att_1[i],att_2[i],att_3[i]}),i,1,count(att_3))

Enter the formula after you have entered the values in column B,C and D.

If you later on add rows, you might get an error, because the lists have
different lengths while you are still entering values. Ignore that.
After you have entered all new values click CTRL R to refresh the
calculation and all is updated.

Kind regards
Regina

[Jody Crothers]

Thanks everyone for the help
I have a working version now
cheers
Jody

> Subject: Re: [tinspire] Selecting max value

> To: tins...@googlegroups.com
> From: rb.he...@t-online.de
> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 22:12:09 +0200

[Travis Bower]

When I used the 84 I shied away from nsolve and leaned towards y1= left side and y2= right side of an equation and found intersection.

We are a numeric school.  I still prefer the intersection method and teach it first.  It is ingrained by the time I teach nsolve.

Our curriculum now has a lot less solving of equations.  I want my STEM students to be strong algebraically.  I want my not-so-strong students to access-up to the mathematical concepts without being "hindered" by their lack of solving skills.  It can sometimes be awkward--juggling this tension.  

My fall back is, 'If a child has tried to memorize his times tables, but can't do it, then maybe a calculator is appropriate.  Maybe it is more important to know 'when' to mult/div/add/subtract rather than 'how'?!"  I prefer both, but if forced to choose....    

Vector that analogy to the secondary level.  Pros and cons.

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	Travis Bower Math Teacher Dos Pueblos High School tbower@sbunified.org www.dphs.org www.sbunified.org 805.968.2541 x4538

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[Sean Bird]

I also strongly agree with the graphical approach to solving. Especially in calculus this communicates more valuable information. For example, "Find the inflection points from this derivative (or 2nd derivative)."

You care less where the second derivative equals zero and much more about where the 2nd deriv changes from + to neg or neg to pos. Graphical wins.

- Sean Bird

who thinks a picture (or graph) is worth a lot of words, but use some calculus words to justify your answer.

[Hartman, Bruce]

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[Hartman, Bruce]

I agree with the graphical being more visual, though the male presenter (forget name) stressed during the TI Webinar he always has his students due the calculation on the Calculator page as he had some uncertainty about the accuracy of using the grapher answer.  Any thoughts to that?

[Sean Bird]

There are certainly some great tips for storing values like the intercept from the graph without loosing precision.

On a Graph application you can also press Menu > Setting. Change the Float 3 to Fix 3 for the AP exam since you want to readily see three digits on the exam.

The AP Calc Exam Prep file contains these and more tips.
https://sites.google.com/site/tinspiregroup/classroom-news/calculusareaapproximationtools

- Sean Bird