Requesting Help to Port My TiddlySpot Files

[Alvin]

I offered to foot the bill for another hosting service for Simon and Daniel to use to move the TiddlySpot domain, but all I've heard so far is crickets. So I would like to take my ClassicTW files that were on TiddlySpot and put them online somewhere else. I would appreciate it if anyone can provide step by step instructions how to do that. I also need to know how to keep them password protected. Thank you so much.

If someone wants to contact me (Alvin dot Orzechowski at sign gmail dot com) about my offer, please do so directly.

[Alvin]

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.

Did my question fall through the cracks? I don't think it can get COVID-19, so there's no need to social distance. Would it help if I offered chocolate for an answer?

[Mark S.]

I'm thinking as far as an offer goes, you might have the most luck posting at https://tiddlyspot.blogspot.com/ . With or without chocolate.

For setting up your own, you would need to find a web host, preferably one that charges per space used rather than un-metered-but-with-secret-restrictions. Then you would use store.php (older) or tw-receiver to serve up your own tw host. There might be additional complications if you wanted to protect your files via ssl. When I looked at hosts, it seemed that most of them wanted to sell one rate for 1 to 3 years, and then twice that rate afterwards. Most of them that charge per storage space were more expensive. For a personal site, I might just depend on TW's own encryption rather than worrying about a site getting hacked.

Re hosting for everyone, all the public files listed in the tiddlytoolmap seem to come to about a half gig. So if the total space was under one gig, then there's at least one website offering services at $6/month plus probably $14/year for domain name registration.

The question of size keeps coming up. It's hard to estimate how much a site would cost when the total size is unknown.

Well, this probably hasn't helped much, but should prompt other conversations.

Good luck!

[Ste]

I'm looking at this at the moment...I keep thinking..'Oh..I'll just edit this' on my wiki, then cry quietly as I remember that tiddlyspot is broken :(

I was thinking node.js with bob to serve multiple wikis.

So far Iv'e turned up https://www.mythic-beasts.com/ for about £70 a year...I think, or a combo of Domain reg from google, Hosting from https://www.cloudflare.com/ and serving from https://www.vultr.com/products/cloud-compute/ at $2.50 a month.  I haven't committed to anything yet....Going to boot up my pi and check I manage to get it all running before I throw cash after it.  The joys of the command line.....

Ste

[Ste]

Just to edit my response, now I've actually read the thread carefully, oops, I'm slightly off track in my reply...I'm just looking at individual hosting.  I'd happily chuck some cash somebody's way for continued tiddlyspot workingness.  I'm guessing no one has heard anything regarding the future of the site?

[springer]

TiddlySpot was absolutely the lowest bar-to-entry for instant-gratification create-edit-save-publish work in TiddlyWiki. Having something like it is essential to attracting new users with an interest in public-facing instant-edit projects.

Alvin: For those like you who already know they love tiddlywiki and love the tiddlyspot convenience, I do recommend the GitHub saver. It's effectively the same workflow experience as TiddlySpot... at least it's comparable *AFTER* the arduous process (at least, it was arduous for me) of getting the repository set up and properly cleared for saving from the browser. Mohammad's walkthrough tutorial is very helpful (and it seems like the glitch around GitHub email verification, which hobbled my own experience, was idiosyncratic).

-Springer

[Alvin]

Thank you to everybody that has replied.

I have about five tiddlyspot files, and it's not clear to me if I can use GitHub for all of them.

I have a little experience with Dropbox, enough that I closed my account less than a week after I created it. So I don't want to use Dropbox.

I have a domain or two, and I can create subdomains, so I'd like to do that.

Again, my tiddlyspot files are ClassicTW, and I want to keep them password protected. A step-by-step how to port them is what I'm looking for.

I'm sure I'm not the only person looking for this. It's are real payne in the arse not being able to update my Tiddlyspot files.

[springer]

Alvin,

I agree that losing TiddlySpot is a pain for anyone who really needs TW projects to be both spontaneously edited (from anywhere) and instantly available via a potentially-public url.

GitHub is the only solution I've found that does meet these conditions (without being a server administrator or being a coding expert). 

The good news: As soon as you successfully set up GitHub once (configuring the right authentication for saving), adding additional tiddlywiki files in the same "repo" (repository) is VERY easy. Unlike tiddlyspot, you can have even GitHub use the same password authentication handshake for each of your five wikis. As with tiddlyspot, once the password is set up on a given computer-browser system (and especially if you configure auto-save), future visits are just smooth as can be. 

I also have domain names and access to server space, but have not yet found a way to use these resources to set up TW5 projects so that they are editable over https: browser access. In theory, GitHub can be a ventriloquist and allow your files to be accessed by way of your custom domain name's url system. So far, my attempts to follow directions to set that up have stumbled. So I can't confirm that it's easy, but I'm determined to return to the question when I have another chunk of troubleshooting time on my hands. In the meantime, I'm finding the github.com urls fairly easy to work with. 

-Springer

[springer]

Alvin, I didn't pause to notice that your files are all ClassicTW. My impression is that the GitHub save functions are specific to TW5. 

Converting my active files, and then learning my way around TW5, was a pretty steep learning curve -- one which I resisted for many months. But I'm now very happy to have crossed over. I hope you find the path forward for your projects!

-Springer

On Thursday, December 3, 2020 at 5:36:56 PM UTC-5 Alvin wrote:

[TW Tones]

Springer, Alvin.

Now days I only access my legacy TWC files via TiddlyDesktop, But TW5 is fine to host on a standard php server with tw-receiver. I believe the store.php used to work with TWC and

 I believe this has being discussed in https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywikiclassic.

Otherwise its easy to use Timimi from my desktop on a webdisk or that is synchronised.

Tones

Tones

[springer]

Hi Tones,

To folks who speak server-talk, phrases like "a standard php server with tw-receiver" and "the store.php" are surely as clear as day. And I appreciate that your reply is a gesture of generous helpfulness.

To someone like me, unpacking even those casual phrases is a risky investment of time. Even assuming that the server space I can use at my university is/has "standard" php (though I wouldn't know how to check that), I don't grasp what it would take to equip (?) it with tw-receiver, or whether tw-receiver lives (?) there at the server (and may require getting an IT person to approve/help) or whether "receiver" implies that I need to get it set up (?) at my end... , etc. 

Yes, I could grope around for some clarity on these matters... OK... a quick google gets me as far as this page, where I learn that tw-receiver apparently has both a tw-plugin component and a server-side file to install... ok... But then a bit further along I read that "You will likely have to make server side adjustments; things like setting directory permissions or ini configurations like max upload sizes". Meh. This is more server-speak; it assumes that I can orient to whether and how I need to make adjustments to "ini configurations" and "things like that" ([insert emoji for blank stare])  ... and having never done anything at all with php before, I just can't tell how long, or how steep, this learning-curve will be, and what the odds are that, one or two hours in, I'll hit a brick wall of some kind.

The only reason I was able to work it out with GitHub was because of Mohammad's very careful step-by-step tutorial, written so that even I could understand it. Might something comparable be available for setting up a php server and getting tw-receiver up and running with it?

(As I mentioned to Alvin, I'm pretty content with the GitHub saver for now, since it really does let TW5 behave over https in the Tiddlyspot way. But I'm replying on behalf of other muggles who feel stranded by the loss of tiddlyspot.)

[Mark S.]

It is complicated. Not exactly an easy solution, and usually not free.

I suspect your university wouldn't want non-IT people setting up public-facing PHP-based servers.

[Alvin Orzechowski]

Again, thank you, thank you for all the replies.

I do a little PHP programming, so I know the hosting service I use provides that.

I have the TiddlyDesktop which I use for the very first TiddlyWiki files I have because there's old information there that I've sometimes copied into my TiddlySpot files.

Wonderful thing about TiddlySpot is that when I'm on the road without a computer, I can call back home and have my SO look things up for me. I've done that often.

I like GitHub, but would accessing my TiddlySpot files there be complicated for a non-geek?

You guys are great! If I could do it, I'd offer a round of chocolate for everybody.

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[Mark S.]

Github has a thing called "Github pages". It let's you serve up your files like a web server. You can use it in conjunction with Github saver. It's a little messy to set up the first time.

Thus your SO could just bring up your page and look at it.

For github pages your repository has to be public. So if your data is private, you would want to use an encrypted TW. You could then share the password with your SO. You would need to be carefully to ONLY save versions of your file that have been encrypted. If you accidentally save without encryption, GH will remember that commit forever. 

[Alvin Orzechowski]

Thanx, Mark.

My TiddlySpot files are password protected because once I had a bad experience. I also stopped putting unencrypted passwords in them.

I might want to play with GitHub pages as an amusement, but, from what you said, not for this application.

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[TW Tones]

Springer,

I am sure you would understand that in the forum, there are many different skill levels, it is unwise to write detailed answers when they may not be needed, time cost money etc... but I ham happy to provide more details as Mohammad did when asked. Personally I have a hosting service and the tw-receiver doco was almost sufficient.

Perhaps start a thread in hosting tiddlywiki on cpanel/php/apache hosts and we can cover it there. Its quite simple with a little extra tips.

Tones

[springer]

Thanks for the offer, Tones! Since I'm 90% happy at github, I won't try php anytime soon. 

My query (about whether a tutorial exists comparable to the one Mohammad posted for github) was more for the sake of others feeling stranded by the loss of tiddlyspot. Although there are lots of skill levels here, my guess is that among close-readers of this thread -- i.e., those still baffled how to re-home their tiddlyspot projects -- few have confidence with php configuration. 

Mark S's post above confirms my fears that cooperation from institutional IT folks may be required, which is enough for me to move php implementation to the "someday" list, though at least knowing that I may be able to consult with you here means it'll stay on my radar.