Wikitext for tags?

[Alex Hough]

Dear All,

I've recently been using code markup in my notes, they

1) make sections standout

2) enforce line breaks

I have notes in tiddlers (for my eyes only) . The "finsihed" tiddler text is above a HR, and below that line are notes related to the text, ones which could end up at new tiddlers eventually.

I wondered if a

1)  markup could define a word as key word or tag

2) a chunk of text marked up could be parsed as non-existing links and / or tags

In the screenshot below, the words "Productivity

Larry Elliot"

would be parsed as links or tag pills

!! HR as semantic division?

I find it quicker to divide up my notes with ruled lines: "----" is quicker to type than it is to create a new field

But maybe I don't need fields anyway: with search, can find the tiddler in question, then refactor the tiddler into smaller chunks.

​

!! Suggested syntax

Just off the top of my head, a double bracket and backticks could be used

​

best wishes

Alex

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Alex

Are you suggesting a mode in which tiddler metadata can be included in a special format in the main tiddler text area? I quite like that idea.

The approach I prefer is where the content of the text box is transformed on entry into the individual fields (that means that re-editing a tiddler the special metadata markup would have been removed). Perhaps if the text box started with a period "." then the special processing would be triggered.

We could use the same technique to split long tiddlers, something like this:

* Given a long tiddler that needs to be split

* Edit it

* Add a "." at the top

* Insert the string "-> TiddlerTitle" at each tiddler split point

Then, on entry, the tiddler would be split into the indicated individual tiddlers, and the original tiddler would get a sequence of transclusions to include the individual tiddlers.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[PMario]

I'd suggest, to use this special syntax, which is already part of the core.

<<tag Productivity>>, <<tag "Larry Elliot">> or

*<<tag Productivity>>
**<<tag test>>
*<<tag "Larry Elliot">>

so you can create nice outlines for your ideas.

If you don't like bullets use:

;<<tag Productivity>>
:<<tag test>>
;<<tag "Larry Elliot">>


-mario

[Måns]

Hi @Alex & @Jeremy

Are you suggesting a mode in which tiddler metadata can be included in a special format in the main tiddler text area? I quite like that idea.

+1 

The approach I prefer is where the content of the text box is transformed on entry into the individual fields (that means that re-editing a tiddler the special metadata markup would have been removed). Perhaps if the text box started with a period "." then the special processing would be triggered.

How would the syntax for a 'value pair' look like? Sth like: ".fieldname:value"? 

 

We could use the same technique to split long tiddlers, something like this:

* Given a long tiddler that needs to be split

* Edit it

* Add a "." at the top

* Insert the string "-> TiddlerTitle" at each tiddler split point

Then, on entry, the tiddler would be split into the indicated individual tiddlers, and the original tiddler would get a sequence of transclusions to include the individual tiddlers.

+1 Nice idea :-)

@Eric made a SplitTiddler html form for TWC which would let you decide what to do after the split function had been run. If some of this could be options then you might even be able to decide to create a filtered list of sub tiddlers from the newly created tiddlers  - based on tags, titles, fields or what ever :-)

I really like the idea of being able to add fields (and tags) or create new tiddlers as you write wiki text in a tiddler.

Please keep on developing on that idea :-)

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

[Danielo Rodríguez]

I have to say that I also love the idea of writting several tiddlers at once. The same for fields, and tags.

That combined with my keyboard snippets plugin could increase my productivity in an awesome way!

[Mat]

Are you suggesting a mode in which tiddler metadata can be included in a special format in the main tiddler text area? I quite like that idea.

+1 

This would be perfect for faster workflow and note taking - IF the decided upon special format is designed with speed and simplicity in mind.

 

The approach I prefer is where the content of the text box is transformed on entry into the individual fields (that means that re-editing a tiddler the special metadata markup would have been removed).

What would be the advantage with removal? I'm not against it, just trying to understand pros and cons.

Perhaps if the text box started with a period "." then the special processing would be triggered.

Personally, I would prefer to specify the commands on a more "immediate need basis". Marking it out at beginning of tiddler means you either must know it when starting or you must jump up there again, put the mark and go down again.

...and if the parser can recognize this initial dot and the following dispersed markup commands, why can it not simply skip the initial dot step?

 

We could use the same technique to split long tiddlers, something like this:

* Given a long tiddler that needs to be split

* Edit it

* Add a "." at the top

* Insert the string "-> TiddlerTitle" at each tiddler split point

I (VERY much) like the idea to mark out splits for transclusion, but the user should not be forced to invent titles. I propose that if no title is inserted, then the current title is reused but with a number after (just like New Tiddler 1, New Tiddler 2 etc). 

Is there a standard notation symbol for "split" or alike, that can be reused here? What do pro editors use? "->" is OK I guess 

Or how about taking advantage of the standard heading markup; "!", "!!" and "!!!". These would probably often pretty natural places to split. For this case, an initial indicating command (e.g the dot) would make sense) OR there is a notation that takes advantage of the established "!", such as perhaps "!>" "!!>" etc. This would also make it easy to add splitout to an already existing document that uses regular headers.

Further, IMO there should be an (optional) "end splitout here" mark. If there is no such, then it continues until either the next (begin) splitout mark or to the end of the tiddler.

"End splitout" could perhaps be ">!" or "<!".(...which, btw, would open up for "nested super splitting" by adding the ">" to the different header levels in a document. One long document that has headings that include subheadings woudl split out first the top level and then traverse down in each new tiddler to split out sublevels. All in the name of tiddler philosophy! ;-) Seriously, don't let this last bit discourage anyone. It is something that could be implemented later.

It is also worth considering if, on split, it should be possible to add metadata?

<:-)

[Mat]

How would the syntax for a 'value pair' look like? Sth like: ".fieldname:value"? 

The point aside (see my post above), this makes sense. Specifically then, perhaps tag:value on a single line (and perhaps followed by a blank line?). The bit about "on a single line (and perhaps followed by a blank line?)" would also enable for multiple tags, i.e simply tag:value1 "value 2" value3 ...

BTW, mGTD/mGSD has the "quick add »" feature (look at top menu, in center). The link I provide is a permalink to the instructions for this quick add feature. Basically it is a notation to create multiple tiddlers, with tags, in one go. Very powerful.

<:-)

[Alex Hough]

yes Mario,

I like that... thanks!

Alex

On 27 May 2015 at 15:00, PMario <pmar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd suggest, to use this special syntax, which is already part of the core.

<<tag Productivity>>, <<tag "Larry Elliot">> or

*<<tag Productivity>>
**<<tag test>>
*<<tag "Larry Elliot">>

so you can create nice outlines for your ideas.

-mario

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[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mario, Mat, Alex,

To Mario's point, this stuff wouldn't be parsed by the usual wikitext parser. We'll need a new pre-parser that processes this markup.

Let's imagine that we added support for the following way to add tags to the current tiddler:

.#tag

.#another tag

That markup needs to end up with the creation of an actual tag field so that the tag mechanisms can work on it. We can't just use the markup above as the record of the tags applied to the tiddler.

Retaining that markup within the tiddler would lead to duplication of data, which may not be a massive problem for a tag, but doesn't look sensible with operations like exploding a tiddler into subtiddlers; the whole point of that operation is to split the original tiddler up; retaining the wikitext with the markup would negate that.

So, that's why the way that I think about this is more like a shorthand command line syntax for typing tiddlers, which is expanded at the point that the tiddler is confirmed.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[Alex Hough]

Just thinking out loud..... The hashtag is the new CamelCase, it adds a Tag inline rather than creating a link..

Perhaps rendering hashtags as tag pills would make sense...

A search for the hashtag would provide a list of similarly tagged tiddlers, as in Twitter, but hashtags in a text could be added to a hashtag field too- if it would be helpful to internals

1. This would make TiddlyWiki interface more with Twitter and emphasise the similarities in philosophy.

2. The tag pill could have a new here type button, a new tid is created with the tag and a field recoding the name of the tiddler.

I think that hashtags have surpassed CamelCase: the [[Square brackets]] do it for me. Looking at Ward's Wiki, it's the camel case which dates it

The status of hashtags is now such that they are widely understood - they are not a passing fad

The dot prefix proposed by Jeremy coud would in a similar way, buttons for refactoring long tiddlers.

Best wishes 

Alex

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[Alex Hough]

... And the tag pill in the preview section would be handy for creating new tiddlers from... I creating new tiddlers from preview, it's good for flow to got quickly from edit mode to create new tiddler..

Alex

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Alex

One slight frustration is that we have some ambiguity about the #hashtag notation, because at the start of a block it could be interpreted as an item in a numbered list.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[Alex Hough]

I agree.... The ordered list could require a space after the hash, 

#hashtag

# first in list

#MakeWayForTheCamelCaseHashtag #CamelCaseLivesOn #NewConvention

Alex

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[Alex Hough]

Another thought..... Remember Jay Fresh's Twitter archive TiddlyWiki? Now we have TiddlyWiki5 and node.... Are there new possibilities?

I've made requests before about restricting tiddler size in the same way Twitter does, and while the responses did the trick I have not ended up using them. Writing a tweet summary of content is becoming a common task. 

What is possible wrt closer integrations with Twitter? The new micro-content writing style is writing for Twitter....

#TiddlyWiki:TheTwitterWiki

Alex

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Alex

The trouble is that it is too late to change the syntax rules for lists; people already have content out there that omits the space.

As to the Twitter integration, yes, the Node.js configuration can be a first-class client of the Twitter API, and do pretty much anything that the API allows.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[Alex Hough]

Maybe the hashtag / ordered list issue could be a plugin? Personally I put a space after a hash for ordered lists, and rendering hashtags would be useful, more useful than camel case...

What kind of things would be possible with the Twitte API?

Alex

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