If tag, open on top...

[Alex Hough]

I am looking at the tiddler below and click on "Filters" on the tag pill popup. I would feel more intuitive if this link opened above the tiddler: it is "higher" in some kind of hierarchy. Similarly a link from the text section of the tiddler feels like it should open below.

The first entry in the list "Filters" could also be rendered as a link to a title if the "titles as links" open were selected: this would further distinguish between tag and tagged. 

just an idea

Alex

[PMario]

Hi Alex,
And what if your list is much longer?
-m

[Alex Hough]

And what if your list is much longer?

I don't see how the length of list would make a difference.... I am no doubt missing something very obvious..

Alex

 

-m

 

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[Felix Küppers]

Hi Alex

> I would feel more intuitive if this link opened above the tiddler

Tags do not need to represent hierarchies...

[PMario]

On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 10:03:54 AM UTC+2, AlexHough wrote:

And what if your list is much longer?

I don't see how the length of list would make a difference.... I am no doubt missing something very obvious..

Sorry Alex,
I did misread your post. I thought the popup should be opened above the tag pill :) but you are talking about the tiddler.
So ignore my comment.

5.1.9 actually has an option to specify, where tiddlers open.
see: http://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/#%24%3A%2FControlPanel  Settings: Tiddler Opening Behaviour

-m

[Alex Hough]

Hi Felix,

Tags do not need to represent hierarchies...

No, not necessarily, however in this instance (filters documentation) the tag "Filter" happens to look like a classification of the tiddler "Introduction to filter notation". In documentation I think that using tags in this manner in a consistent way would be help.

Generally a tag denotes a tiddler belonging to a category, it is of course up to the user to decide. The adoption of a hashtag schema could be an option to explore for making tags "hierachical tags" : i've played with this but the issue where he hash is used for a numbered list add the requirement for double brackets.

@Mario: I know there is the option of open links from inside the story river above, below etc, i was thinking the concept could be optionally available dependant on tiddler field, text or tag.

Alex

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[Mat]

I misunderstood your post in the same way that Mario did.

The idea to open parents above and children below is interesting. I don't know for sure if it is useful, but for sure interesting. Might be worth exploring. Maybe it would make sense in specific contexts... I'm thinking if the hierarchy is a characteristic feature for the TW e.g with topics like botany or family trees etc.

<:-)

[Mat]

@Alex wrote  

 

In documentation I think that using tags in this manner in a consistent way would be help.

Aha that is an even more interesting application! To use the opening behaviour as a strategy to sequence things into a specific order. I can definitely see how this would be useful where many tiddlers are to be opened to the print out the resulting page. 

<:-)

[PMario]

On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 1:24:51 PM UTC+2, AlexHough wrote:

@Mario: I know there is the option of open links from inside the story river above, below etc, i was thinking the concept could be optionally available dependant on tiddler field, text or tag.

Hmmm,
I thought that the new configuration already adds more complexity to deal with, but Felix had some very good arguments and he did the implementation. ... What you suggest here is very close to configuration hell for me.

IMO 80% of the users will work with the TW defaults and be happy with it.
IMO 80% of the advanced users (the 20% from above), will be happy with the 2 new settings in the core.

For me the rest is plugin territory, because it's too complex.

There are 2 tiddlers involved:
 - $:/config/Navigation/openLinkFromInsideRiver ... 4 possibilities
 - $:/config/Navigation/openLinkFromOutsideRiver ... 2 possibilities

The new navigator widget can handle the following values

 - below ... open tiddler below the current tiddler
 - above ... open tiddler above the current tiddler
 - top ... open tiddler on top of the story
 - bottom... open tiddler at the end of the story

So theoretically you can create buttons ore may be even keyboard shortcuts, that dynamically changes the $:/config tiddlers.
If that makes you happy, you can have a different behaviour for every link you click.

-m

[Felix Küppers]

> IMO 80% of the users will work with the TW defaults and be happy with it.

> IMO 80% of the advanced users, will be happy with the 2 new settings
> in the core.

I agree with Mario's estimations. I also think it would add too much
complexity here

[Mat]

For sure it is a plugin matter (way) before a core matter, but my impression is that more than a hard core proposal it is...

@Alex wrote:

just an idea

I.e food for thought and discussion.

<:-)

[Richard Smith]

Just adding my two cents - I don't think I would use this very much but it could be achieved by adding the option to "maintain hierarchy" - the effect would be that opening every tiddler would eventually leave you with them all open in a prescribed order. This might be useful for something like a 'folded book'. Of course, it would mean that the hierarchy would need to be defined somehow.

[PMario]

On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 11:47:36 PM UTC+2, Richard Smith wrote:

Just adding my two cents - I don't think I would use this very much but it could be achieved by adding the option to "maintain hierarchy" - the effect would be that opening every tiddler would eventually leave you with them all open in a prescribed order. This might be useful for something like a 'folded book'. Of course, it would mean that the hierarchy would need to be defined somehow.

TiddlyWikiClassic had an option / plugin, with an "open all" button. That lets you open several tiddlers with one click.
This topic has been discussed in one or two hangouts already. https://youtu.be/xlXdKMj70yM?t=3658

-m

[Alex Hough]

Yes, it's just an idea, one born out of navigating the links around filters. I found it very confusing to navigate through the tags and links.

Just as there is a "sweet spot" for complexity of options where tiddlers open, there is a similar balance to be struck between non-linearity and hierarchy, and the amount of text, number and nature of the links from each tiddler.

In the documentation I feel that there is a vast variety of navigational options which are not matched by navigational behaviours. TW is non-hierachical, but I think some way of conforming to the conceptual metaphor "above is higher in a hierarchy" would be desirable. 

I think that testing something like this would be the only way to evaluate the benefits.

The behaviour of the links in the recently shared Digital Textbook link [1] is interesting. The "in-paragraph" links are opened below that paragraph, not at the top or bottom of the text, and there is a down arrow to indicate where the link is opened, see screenshot

Tagging  text is all about hierarchy, its different from tagging with system tags: there is meaning for the reader naviagting the text.  

Alex

[1] http://www.infogridpacific.com/blog/igp-blog-20150529-what-is-a-digital-textbook-2015.html#comment-2081102978

On 17 June 2015 at 20:59, Mat <matia...@gmail.com> wrote:

For sure it is a plugin matter (way) before a core matter, but my impression is that more than a hard core proposal it is...

@Alex wrote:

just an idea

<:-)

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[Jeremy Ruston]

Just chiming in to say that I'm very keen on these kind of explorations. For those of us using TiddlyWiki everyday there's a natural tendency to focus on improvements to the rough edges that we bump against frequently. But re-imagining the basic reading experience is also very important if we are to improve it. My goal with TW is to enable somebody like Alex to be able to directly build prototypes that demonstrate and explore his ideas - the digital textbook example looks pretty easy to implement as a "disassociated slider" (a spontaneous neologism for where the button and the revealed content are separate from one another).

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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