Footnotes [TW5]

[Jonathan Emmert]

I have been on a mission to figure out a way to do footnotes in TiddlyWiki and think i have found a way to do it.  Just wanted to pass this on and see if any one else had any thought.

In the text where you want your footnote you type the following:

<a name="Note1" id="Note1" href="#Note01">[1]</a>

At the bottom of the tiddler you can put the following:

----
<a name="Note01" id="Note01"></a> <a href="#Note1">[1]</a> Text of footnote

This will create links between the text and the footnote so you can easily navigate between the two (especially helpful in tiddlers with a lot of text).

If anyone else knows of an easier way I would love to hear it - but this seems to be working well for me thus far.

[Julio Peña]

Hello Jonathan:

It would be interesting if this could be achieved via pure wiki syntax for simplicity's sake.

Like for example:

This is my sentence with [[[note1]]].

which then you would combine it at the bottom of article or end of page with

[^[ref|note1]]

For me this would be on the wishlist sort to speak.

Best regards,

Julio

[Stephan Hradek]

I don't like these approaches. I'd prefer something like in the "big" wikis <ref>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Footnotes</ref> where the footnotes are numbered automatically and placed where you put a

{{reflist}}

Of course not with curly braces, as they are already taken.

[Julio Peña]

Hello Stephan,

Yes, I saw that also...hence why I gave my idea about using wiki syntax as a wish...but yes...that's the (your) idea.

The less typing the better I'd say.

Can that be incorporated somehow to TW5 in it's present state?

Best regards,

Julio

[Jonathan Emmert]

I agree.  It would be nice to have this feature incorporated somehow.  It seems as though many people use TiddlyWiki for research and footnotes would be helpful.  

Jonathan

[Danielo Rodríguez]

I agree. In fact I'm currently using footnotes by hand with superscript and underscript

[Stephan Hradek]

Am Montag, 10. Februar 2014 20:09:44 UTC+1 schrieb Julio Peña:

Can that be incorporated somehow to TW5 in it's present state?

At the moment I doubt it. I also think, before implementing something, one needs to decide Whether or not footnotes are a good means for... For what!? I can see use cases where one wants to add some more information to a sentence but does not want to disturb the normal flow of the sentence. I doubt that his is good, but that's just my opinion. Or is it just for references? Then I think it should be partly possible with the current TW5.

[Daniel Baird]

Naively it seems to me that when editing, the footnote content should be right there where the reference is.  This means you can easily edit the note, and avoid hassles like orphaned notes when you copy/paste stuff, etc. e.g:

This is my sentence with [[note1::Sentences are usually more well constructed than this one.]].  Another sentence follows.

Even other paragraphs.

_,~'^'~._referenceList^'~._,~'^

Would give:

This is my sentence with note1.  Another sentence follows.

Even other paragraphs.

note1: Sentences are usually more well constructed than this one.

I'm completely making up the syntax, of course (especially the reference list bit).  The important part is to have separator or indicator syntax of some sort, to differentiate between an optional reference name ("note1" in the example above), so it can be referenced again from another spot with [[note1::]] and the reference content ("Sentences are ... this one.").

Optional names can default to normal footnote numbers, so [[::thanks, Obama]] will get a superscript 1 or whatever.

You might also want to allow inline-type wiki markup, maybe even block stuff:

This is my sentence with [[note1::

Sentences are usually more well constructed than this one.

]].  Another sentence follows.

Anyway.. TLDR: put footnote content inline with the reference to it.

Cheers

;Daniel

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[PMario]

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:38:19 AM UTC+1, Daniel Baird wrote:

Naively it seems to me that when editing, the footnote content should be right there where the reference is.  This means you can easily edit the note, and avoid hassles like orphaned notes when you copy/paste stuff, etc. e.g:

This is my sentence with [[note1::Sentences are usually more well constructed than this one.]].  Another sentence follows.

Even other paragraphs.

_,~'^'~._referenceList^'~._,~'^

Would give:

This is my sentence with note1.  Another sentence follows.

Even other paragraphs.

note1: Sentences are usually more well constructed than this one.

When I read this suggestion I think about external [ext[]] and image [img[]] links. Thery are missing atm and some discussion is going on. So there is some work to do anyway.

eg: [footnote[note1|Sentences are usually more well constructed than this one.]]

... IMO there is a problem with the automatic numbering with this syntax. ...

@jeremy
what do you think?

-mario

[Julio Peña]

Hello all,

I was glad this was touched upon in the Google hangout #34 by Jeremy.

I completely understood where Jeremy was coming from in regards to navigation in TW5.

So, to that effect, if this may not be semantically possible and can do tool-tip (like I believe I heard mentioned?) then I can do that.

As long as I can have a quick reference to either a link or source I wouldn't mind.

Take a look at: http://www.opentip.org/

Maybe something to this effect can be implemented? 

Just an idea to throw in the hat per se. What do you think?

Best regards,

Julio

[Daniel Baird]

Can anyone summarise the hangout discussion?

The high level goal of footnotes is to make a little bit of additional info available to the few readers who need it, without interrupting the flow of other readers.  In a web/computer screen context having notes show up at the bottom of the "page" doesn't make sense, especially where scrolling might be required.

Popups are a more familiar solution; I personally don't much like them but that shouldn't rule them out as the best way to do footnotes in a TW.  If i were doing it for something other than tiddlywiki I might suggest that clicking the reference marker could a sort of horizontal page split to show the footnote content -- like iOS folders used to do (demo in JS here: http://jsfiddle.net/SDp5y/ ) or like the Brackets editor splits a source file to edit a colour or something (e.g. the screenshot at http://brackets.io/ ).

Anyway it's easy to fiddle around with the exact right way to show footnote content, what's more important is getting the information model and wiki markup right first.

Cheers

;Daniel

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[Stephan Hradek]

In an attempt to creat something useful for footnotes, I created a "match" filter which is similar to JavaScript's match function.

I already uploaded it to http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com as "Idea for a footnote filter" but haven't done any documenting worth mentioning…

The idea is to filter all tiddlers for the texts between (for example) <ref> and </ref> in order to create one big list of all used footnotes.

[Julio Peña]

Hello Stephan,

That was a question that I was about to post before I saw this...if fields could be used for such.

Actually that's a nifty idea once some type of syntax can be agreed upon.

One tiddler for text and ref links. Once you click on any one of them, 

one will get another tiddler with all the references for that specific tiddler.

Very nice. I keep an eye on developments.

Thanks Stephan,

Best regards,

Julio

[Jeremy Ruston]

Can anyone summarise the hangout discussion?

The discussion starts here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0xWd4nhlQoE#t=6299

To summarise, I was trying to explore whether people were after:

* The specific interactive effect of clicking on a footnote link and being taken to the bottom of the tiddler to read the text

* The writing style of referencing the footnote in the body of the tiddler, but having the footnote text at the bottom of the tiddler

* Automatic numbering of footnotes

To me there are two fairly straightforward Tiddly-esque way of handling footnotes:

* Extending tiddler links so that they can show the target tiddler in a popup

* A slider-style syntax (like Daniel's example)

The advantage of the former approach is that it allows the same footnote to be referenced from multiple places in the text, while the latter is a lot easier to type. The two approaches could render in (almost) the same way, to give the same user experience.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Jeremy Ruston
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