Idea / inspiration for tables?

[David Gifford]

Hi all

This post is just to share a vague vision.

1. The problems: a) Tables with cell content of any significant length are in TiddlyWiki get really messy in editing mode. Going back to edit them requires a magnifying glass and patience. b) Table cells with, for example, bulleted lists for content, require transclusion.

2. The inspiration: a) Streams and NotoWritey create new, transcluded lines - external tiddlers that can be edited from within the current tiddler. b) In Roam Research, tables can be created from outlines. c) With the link-to-tabs plugin, a click opens the tiddler for a tab.

3. The idea: What if there were an editor toolbar button that you could use to insert a transcluded tiddler in a table cell? Details:

a) The button would create a cell, with an automatically generated title, either a datetimestamp or a title similar to those that Streams generates for each line.

b) The tiddler would be transcluded in the table cell similar to how they are transcluded in Streams

c) Clicking or doubleclicking the cell (or maybe clicking on an icon that appears on hovering, similar to the link-to-tab plugin) would either open the tiddler in edit mode, or the cell itself would become an edit-text window. Probably the former makes more sense, but the latter is the vision that inspired this whole idea - similar to clicking on an Excel cell and editing it.

d) The padding of the transcluded tiddler would need to be reduced somehow so that the table wouldn't be overpadded.

That's it. That is my idea for beefing up tables in TiddlyWiki. My original thought was to have it be a new way of doing tables, where every cell created generated a new transcluded tiddler. That would be really cool, where adding table cells would be as easy as adding lines in Streams.

But that seems extremely complicated, and an overkill solution, unnecessary for most tables. An editor toolbar button to insert such an "editable transclusion of a new tiddler" similar to what one sees in Streams sounds more realistic.

What do you guys think about this idea? Anyone getting inspired to create a new plugin?

Streams: https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/streams.html

Link to tab plugin: https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/link-to-tabs/

[Atronoush]

David,

 In my opinion, if we consider the tiddler philosophy, for non single/small value cell, it is better to use a tiddler to keep the cell content.

 hen use TiddlyTables or Shiraz Dynamic Tables to create a table and edit it in place like Excel (Spreadsheet)

See: 

1. https://kookma.github.io/TW-Shiraz/#Tutorial%20Dynamic%20Tables

2. http://tiddlytables.tiddlyspot.com/

[David Gifford]

Sorry I should correct myself / specify,

1. I misspoke when I wrote that it would create a cell. I was talking about creating a snippet within a cell of a TiddlyWiki table.

2. I am not talking about spreadsheet tables to manage data, but simple tables to display simple information, but some of the cells of which

a) require block transclusion, such as bulleted lists

b) I might want to edit quickly later without wading through a mess in edit view.

So to put it in other language, what I am imagining is a one click and more concise way to insert the equivalent of the following in a table cell:

<$transclude tiddler="automatically generated title" mode="block"/> [[*|alias link to same automaticlly generated title]]

or some other, better solution. The links you mention have processes that are quite complex and bottom-up. I am talking about creating a regular TiddlyWiki table and having an easy way to create a tiddler, transclude it in a cell, and link to it with one click.

[PMario]

Hi Dave,

What if a table syntax would look like this:

´table ´caption Some caption text
»===row
´! header 1
´! header 2
´! header 3
------
»===row
»| 1 text

»| 12 text

»|
* cell 13 text
* line 2
* line 3
------
»===row
»| 2 text

»| 22 text

»| 23 text

------
/endTable

and produce this:

[PMario]

Hi

It would need better CSS, but I think you get the idea.

-mario

[David Gifford]

I remember this kind of table code being discussed once in a Google Hangout years ago, then it was never mentioned again there or here.

Yes, that would definitely solve the problem!

One question: would » in the cell text break the table? Just wondering since  «  and  »  is what Spanish uses for quoted text. They don't normally use our English " and ".

[TW Tones]

David,

I know where Mario is coming from with his suggestion, and its closer than you think,

However personally I have extended my skills into html tables and are very happy there. No microscope needed, and when I get to make use of the technology Mario is discussing that will as easy as well, even identical if desired. 

Using html tables allows you to introduce any feature also available in HTML tables from paging, to overflow, reordering etc.. 

Mohammads +, table tools would only need a little tweak to get what you want.

Tones

[David Gifford]

Thanks Tones. Yeah, I like HTML tables versatility (individually colored cells!) but Mario's approach looks cleaner.

[TW Tones]

David,

I agree, In fact Mario's answer is in fact the same thing wrapped inside some custom wiki text. 

You can see it follows a similar structure which is easier to write, rather than "compressed" using the | symbols.

Regards

Tony

[PMario]

On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 8:51:27 PM UTC+1, David Gifford wrote:

I remember this kind of table code being discussed once in a Google Hangout years ago, then it was never mentioned again there or here.

That's right. It spooked around in my head for a long time. ... I'm developing a new plugin with Tony and TT that is close to (prime) beta time.

So there will be an announcement sooner than later ;)

 

Yes, that would definitely solve the problem!

The idea is intended for tables cells with "some text" and also for "block mode" text like bullet lists. .. It's possible to transclude tiddlers, if you need cells with much text.

It should be easier to use with copy/paste than "traditional" TW tables.

 

One question: would » in the cell text break the table? Just wondering since  «  and  »  is what Spanish uses for quoted text. They don't normally use our English " and ".

There are different markers (glyphs). But as long as » isn't at the start of the line there shouldn't be a conflict.

The whole thing should be very flexible.

have fun!

mario

[David Gifford]

Can't wait! Thanks to all of you for your work on this!

[springer]

Looking forward to more developments here! 

(I've been using Dynamic Tables to work around some of these issues, but sometimes it's not quite the right tool for the job.)