On Tobias Beer's tbGTD. Some praise, a demonstration, and a humble request

[Leo Staley]

So this post is two parts, mostly for Tobias Beer, but hey, it's a public forum, you can comment too. :)

First I wanted to praise your amazing work, tbGTD, and also show you how I expanded on it. I liked it so much that I dove all in, and figured out how it worked (which, by the way, was maddeningly hard, with those excludeLists, and special tbGtdTheme tiddler, etc). The changes I made to it for myself, can be found here. 

I'd really love to know what you think. An incomplete summary of my changes is: 

Fixed tagglytagging template, so the buttons aren't invisible and tiny.

Swapped out Delicious tagging for IntelliTaggerPlugin (I just wish I could add some color distinctiveness to it...)
Streamlined sidebar tabs more to my liking.
Adjusted top bars some

Adjusted the toolbars a bunch
Added sidebyside view and PreviewPlugin. Still needs tweaking
Added quickedit.
Added quicksave Save button
Added "fullscreen" button.
cleaned up left sidebar.
swapped out SimpleSearch for FindrPlugin
Added History Plugin, to permanently permaview. 
Added SimpleTreePlugin (Which I'm in love with, by the way)

Added a bunch of other plugins

And a bunch of others.

Second, I wanted to request, if you were willing, a TW5 theme that gives it a look as close to tbGTD as possible. I've basically been in love with the layout and visual settings for http://tbgtd.tiddlyspot.com/ ever since I found it, but getting that look on TW5 has proven outside my ability. 

Now, I totally understand that a complete 1 for 1 port to TW5 would require tons and tons of work, but mostly I want a visual theme in TW5 that looks... well, Identical, or as close to it, as tbGTD. 

Specifically, If you're willing to do something like this, I'm most hoping for:

-Font size and line spacing

-The Colors

-Page layout of columns and top bar

-The Tabs

-TagSearch

Then, also important, but I understand that these might not be as easy:

-x-plore

-TagglyTags (it was your example in this that made me realize how valuable tiddlers as tags really is!)

-The Desk

-The little calendar

-The look of the editing view as well

Of course I'd also like to see all the other tweaks I made to it as well, but I'm a realist. TW5 is just so much harder to tweak and modify than TWC, I can only ask for help from experts to accomplish any real adjustments, so I've got to be conservative in my expectations.

So yeah, Tell me what you think of my mods to tbGTD, and if you'd be willing to whip up a css revamp of TW5 that makes it look more like tbGTD. 

-Good luck, Sleep well, Have fun,

-Leo

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Leo,

 

First I wanted to praise your amazing work, tbGTD, and also show you how I expanded on it.

Thanks for the praises. It was quite a chunk of work, back then, although I stopped working on it when my focus shifted towards dnd list management, something called listr that I started working on but never finished to the point of publishing, which would have allowed drag-and-dropping tiddler representations within and between nested lists, e.g. for use in a (sprint) backlog or kanban boards, etc. So, working with tbGTD would have allowed you to mimic something like trello, just without collaboration, plus nesting.

 

I liked it so much that I dove all in, and figured out how it worked (which, by the way, was maddeningly hard, with those excludeLists, and special tbGtdTheme tiddler, etc). The changes I made to it for myself, can be found here. 

Glad you worked out how to adjust all of that to your liking and integrate other plugins. Had I started to work on another update to tbGTD, I had brought in a few new plugins / swapped them like you did, e.g. findr. As for the visual "fixes", I find them to be more like preferences. Sure, the way I implemented it in tbGTD was that buttons, for example, are by default less visible, only as needed. Today I would agree that this approach can be problematic on mobile devices.

Swapped out Delicious tagging for IntelliTaggerPlugin (I just wish I could add some color distinctiveness to it...)

I definitely agree that IntelliTagger is far more powerful than DeliciousTagging. As for colors I'm not sure where you're headed.

 

Streamlined sidebar tabs more to my liking.

Putting tags in subtabs makes for a good choice to toggle between the list and the cloud.

 

Adjusted top bars some

Adjusted the toolbars a bunch

I probably wouldn't put the fullscreen button in two places.

Added sidebyside view and PreviewPlugin. Still needs tweaking

Never personally used this but I can see how others may find it useful.

Added quickedit.

Surely has its merits. I personally never resorted to using it, not sure why.

Added quicksave Save button

What is this?

 

Added "fullscreen" button.

That's a clean ui which is possibly good, again, for mobile, e.g. smaller devices. On my desktop it would be a little too wide for my tastes.

swapped out SimpleSearch for FindrPlugin

Sure thing. ;-)

 

Added History Plugin, to permanently permaview.

I can see how some want their wiki to always startup exactly as it was last seen. I'm personally not big on that premise. If I ever need permaview, I can use it, but as a default, I don't need it.

Added SimpleTreePlugin (Which I'm in love with, by the way)

You're welcome. ;-)

It was intended more for things like menus. As for the left sidebar, I find the current implementation more streamlined and I wouldn't quite want additional folder icons or things like that, personally... possibly, the controls to add new items or view subitems would also work in SimpleTree items.

Second, I wanted to request, if you were willing, a TW5 theme that gives it a look as close to tbGTD as possible. I've basically been in love with the layout and visual settings for http://tbgtd.tiddlyspot.com/ ever since I found it, but getting that look on TW5 has proven outside my ability.

Haven't yet done any experimentation with "theming" in tw5. Mostly with the problems related to scrolling when wanting to use a top title or modify the layout by other means and finding scrolling to not account for any thus introduced offsets. Theming is quite the task in its own right nowadays and the complexity of the templating has separated the endeavour into a number of task , I believe:

1. redesigning major layout elements
   
2. tweaking and using the looong color palette
   
3. modifying / extending whatever the applicable css "theme"
   
4. tweaking individual component templates
   
5. possibly, theme related plugin extensions

One could argue that a "theme" would only be 3) above but then that's a rather limiting design constraint / a perspective that doesn't live up to the task of redesigning the TW user interface.

Now, I totally understand that a complete 1 for 1 port to TW5 would require tons and tons of work, but mostly I want a visual theme in TW5 that looks... well, Identical, or as close to it, as tbGTD.

It took quite some work to develop all the plugin bits that came out of and went into tbGTD, e.g. x-plore, x-tab, tagsearch, quick-edit, etc... At the moment, I'm definitely not seeing myself replicating tbGTD in TW5, not only since I would start from slightly different design paradigms and put other tenets to display action items in the foreground, e.g. dnd kanban / nested lists, something that TW5 has a longer way to go than TW2 with the lack of jQuery and dom manipulation methods.

While that is not the answer you're looking for, at the moment your best bet for GTD in TW5 is:

• set up your own basic GTD workflow, e.g. leveraging GTD tags and conditional view templates for sublists, etc
  
• start from GSD5

Specifically, If you're willing to do something like this, I'm most hoping for:

-Font size and line spacing 

-The Colors 

This is the kind of time-consuming fiddling where everyone has there own preferences, I would think.

-Page layout of columns and top bar

If you want to investigate into that direction further by yourself, have a look at Birthe's explorations to mimic a classic theme in TW5 and start from there:

http://bc.classic.tiddlyspot.com

-TagSearch

That is possibly something I'll be working on in a bit, as it is useful in general, whereas the "tagsearch" that has been implemented for TW5 already isn't quite how I would have improved on TagSearch for TW2. In fact, it feels a bit like a step back.

Then, also important, but I understand that these might not be as easy:

-x-plore

Surely very interesting, will have to investigate... would possibly want to add filtering at the top of each column.

 

-TagglyTags (it was your example in this that made me realize how valuable tiddlers as tags really is!)

Yes, also very important especially when combined with an ability to filter a list of "TagglyTags", as above ...or any other nested list of tiddler links, really.

 

-The Desk

I would possibly design it very differently today. More like "desklets" that can be stacked into desk-columns. So you would be able to use css to define the number of columns you want to use and then put these little desklets into the columns. All of which would be a lot more customizable than the one big current desktop tiddler of tbGTD.

 

-The little calendar

That's very useful, surely. There are some calendar solutions for TW5 already. Personally, I'd possibly try and make the datepicker also display events. So, we've got the same calendar widget both for editing and displaying, not two.

-The look of the editing view as well

That, again is a very personal choice. I definitely agree that the current tag editing experience in TW5 is very inefficient, especially in comparison with IntelliTagging.

Of course I'd also like to see all the other tweaks I made to it as well, but I'm a realist. TW5 is just so much harder to tweak and modify than TWC, I can only ask for help from experts to accomplish any real adjustments, so I've got to be conservative in my expectations.

Haha, well, as for realism, I have not started working on any tb5GTD or whatever it could be called and, as I said, I'm not sure I'm seeing that pop up anytime soon, the amount of work being involved in it.

So yeah, Tell me what you think of my mods to tbGTD, and if you'd be willing to whip up a css revamp of TW5 that makes it look more like tbGTD.

Perhaps making an alternative theme for TW5 with tbGTD for TW2 as a template is something people would find useful and like to use as an alternative theme.

Best wishes,

— tb

[Matabele]

Hi

You might like to have a look at something I wrote a while ago for TW5-beta. I wrote my plain vanilla version of GTD as an experiment to see what could be done with TW5 -- the development wiki may be found here, and a blank gTiD application here.

Needs updating, but might give you some ideas.

regards

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Leo

I was actually thinking of you when I added the “Tight” theme for 5.1.10, and I’d be interested in your feedback:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/2008

You can try it out by visiting

http://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/

Scroll down for the “Try it out” button under the heading “New Tight Theme”.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[Alex Hough]

Hi All,

Intelligtagger : that was a great plugin... if only it was available for TW5...

Udo -- i don't suppose you are reading?

Alex

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