Search and filter by tag combinations (Taggly Tagging)

[dafcok]

Hello!

I use TW to greatly improve my information managment, both for study,
work, interests and such. I've laid out a, for me, perfect Taggly
Tagging Tag hierarchy.

Now I desperately need a way to search and filter in combinations of
Tags! So I may search tiddlers which have "Ideas" and "Work" tags and
on another occasion filter out tiddlers containing "Ideas" and "IT".
Do you know any plugin or method to realise this advanced search? I've
been searching a lot and didn't come up with anything else than:
- SearchOptionsPlugin (not really an improvement)
- TagsTreePlugin (no combinations, gets clumsy)

;Alex;
PS:

[Eric Shulman]

> Now I desperately need a way to search and filter in combinations of
> Tags! So I may search tiddlers which have "Ideas" and "Work" tags and
> on another occasion filter out tiddlers containing "Ideas" and "IT".
> Do you know any plugin or method to realise this advanced search? I've
> been searching a lot and didn't come up with anything else than:
> - SearchOptionsPlugin (not really an improvement)
> - TagsTreePlugin (no combinations, gets clumsy)

http://www.TiddlyTools.com/#MatchTagsPlugin

for your use-case, this might fit the bill:
<<matchTags panel>>

enjoy,
-e
Eric Shulman
TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios

[PMario]

Have a look at TagsplorerMacro, which can be seen at tiddlyweb.

http://tiddlyweb.peermore.com/wiki/#TagsplorerMacro%20[[TiddlyWeb%20Documentation]]

-m

[dafcok]

@Mario:
Very nice graphical makeup, besides the things you already have on
your todo!
Nevertheless the search function only respects tiddlers' tags which
are directly associated with that tiddler. But it does not take care
of the taddly tagging principle of tag hierarchies.
For instance a search for "Ideas" and "Plants" does not return the
same or more article as "Ideas" and "Flower". Furthermore, the tags
listing just lists every tag/tiddler in alphabetical order, there is
no browsing in hierarchies. In return, the list gets messy fast as
every tag is a tiddler :)
This abstraction or generalisation is a part of taggly tagging though.


@Eric:
I looked into MatchTagsPlugin also. Here we have the same problem(s).


This remains an open issue for me. If it's not really clear which
functionallity (and why) I mean, I could post something graphical.
If it is, I would love to hear further recommendations.

Alex

[PMario]

On Sep 20, 7:41 pm, dafcok <a.hir...@gmail.com> wrote:
> @Mario:
> Very nice graphical makeup, besides the things you already have on
> your todo!

I didn't make the macro :) so the flowers go to fnd.

From your first post

>Now I desperately need a way to search and filter in combinations of
>Tags! So I may search tiddlers which have "Ideas" and "Work" tags and
>on another occasion filter out tiddlers containing "Ideas" and "IT".

For me it seemed that eg:
1 tid: write bill1 - Tag: Ideas Work
2 tid: write bill2 - Tag: Ideas Work
3 tid: by flowers - Tag: Ideas Private

>If it's not really clear which
>functionallity (and why) I mean, I could post something graphical.

jup would be interesting
-m
filter Ideas .. lists all of them
filter Ideas Private .. lists only no 3

It would be nice to get your

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Alex,

I think Tagsplorer is pretty much the best way to filter down to the
bottom of your interest... I failed to understand what exactly you are
missing from it. Which hierarchy would you want displayed? The thing
is, the hierarchy depends on being able to recognize where in the
hierarchy you really are, thus an indivudal tiddler.

In that case, I suggest you use TagglyTagging to navigate to your
desired goal ...maybe in combination with SinglePageModePlugin and
BreadCrumbsPlugin or HistoryPlugin ...so that you wont have a
bazillion of tiddlers openend only just because you wanted to get to
"the one" of interest.

Cheers, Tobias.

[dafcok]

Ok, I will try myself in ASCII Art. In my company we realized
something along this, with great success. But it's proprietary.
I think with regard to the the hierarchical tagging in TiddlyWiki, it
would be possible.

To make my point clear, lets discuss on this tag hierarchy:

- Action
|___ * Nurturing
|___ * Training

- Subject
|___ - Plant
| |___ * Flower
| |___ * Tree
|___ - Mammal
|___ * Dog
|___ * Horse
|___ * Human

-------------------------------

I should select only Action-->Nurturing and Subject-->Plant to get all
Tiddlers which encompass how to nurture Flowers, Trees and general
tips how to nurture any plants.
If I would like to refine my search, I could add further tags down the
hierarchy. If I would like to get even more general tips, I could
check Subject-->Mammal also or remove the tag completely searching
only vor Action-->Nurturing.

In this case, a combination of Action-->Training and Subject-->Plant
would probably get only few hits :)

From a user point of view, the display should respect the hierarchy
and not flatten it out into a bunch of tags like Tagsplorer. So, for
instance the initial view should look like this:

+ Action
+ Subject

Adding the tag Action to my selection should refine it like this:

- Action
|___ * Nurturing
|___ * Training

+ Subject

Up to date, I use TagsTree to walk the hierarchy but this one is
missing the tag combination filter of Tagsplorer... :o
This system becomes very imanent if you add more tags like "Size", one
could search for bonsai trees, ponys or on the contrary very big trees
by combination. Or "Region" where you could just filter out how to
[nurture] [plants] in the [desert], literaly.

Hope I made my point and thank you for your participation!
Alex

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Ales,

It's still not quite clear - and I mean your search-workflow - and
I'll explain why.

If you are filtering on two hierarchies (action & subject)... then
applying multiple filters on those hierarchies will have to expand
different paths along the hierarchies.

If I were to look for a combination of nurturing and plants, I would
use Tagsplorer to filter the tiddlers and get a flat list ...and only
upon clicking any of the results I would want to see where this result
is located in some hierarchy. On the other hand, showing this location
for a given number of results at once would just show a big tree were
you wouldn't quite know which leaf corresponds to which search result.

The thing you probably really are missing is a kind of nesting in the
select-popup for tags that Tagsplorer uses. So essentially... if you
could expand hierarchies and then hit on a leaf to select it as a
filter you would probably be fine, right?

So, the question might just be, how to make Tagsplorer "hierarchy-
aware"? I guess RelatedTiddlersPlugin [1] might just provide a base
for that. However, FND or anyone else able and willing to would have
to take some time to provide an integration of the two.

Cheers, Tobias.

[1] http://tiddlytools.com/#RelatedTiddlersPlugin

[dafcok]

Hallo Tobias,

Yes, ofcourse the search result must be a flat list and thus my ASCII
tag tree sketch has absolutely nothing to do with the presentation of
this search results.
You are also right, that Tagsplorer's tag picking, to be as useful as
i tried to describe, must be "hierarchy-aware" in browsing the tags.

But furthermore, the search function must be "hierarchy-aware" . That
means if i pick "Plants", not only Tiddlers with "Plants" should show
but also Tiddlers with (only) "Flowers" have to, because they are in
fact also plants. This would then follow closely the Taggly Tagging
philosophy and would also be coherent with the "New here" button.

I have the feeling, that this thread could start to vanish now and be
buried in data nirvana... :)
So any further input, FND?

Thanks,
Alex

[Tobias Beer]

Hi again, Alex,

Don't worry, "hierarchy awareness" may be a somewhat neglected issue
in the tw-world ...BUT, I believe not before long this will be
resolved one way or the other!

The most simple example probably is best represented by the
hierarchical structure of a website (think sitemap) ...and breadcrumbs
in their "classical sense"... although the TiddlyTools interpretation
of a "browsing history" makes sense, too.

However, I would not be so sure that there are a lot of sites that
actually (are able to) perform searches the way you
suggest ...returning flowers when one searches for plants.

A few months ago I have tried to walk down such a road in the context
of my pearl theme, yet not quite arrived at a working implementation.

I can assure you that this beast was quite complex to wrap ones mind
around. Above all, it requires a thorough understanding and skillful
implementation of minimal spanning trees and a sensical definition of
those items chosen to be the root elements for ones hierarchies, plus
a algorithm to merge trees for a given number of "end leaves" into a
"consolidated filter tree".

Therefore, my problem was not so much generating the spanning trees
(read: tag hierarchies) but instead finding ways to merge those leafs
that are identical along the paths to arrive at a single tree or
corall-like structure ...instead of multiple parallel paths with
redundant leafs.

It is good that you set a reminder and maybe I will (finally) get to
finish what I once set out to be a wonderful thing for most any
TiddlyWiki to have... though I have to admit that I haven't yet
considered how to make it "search-aware" in the sense you propose (or
if that actually makes much sense) ...or nowadays how to not only
include RelatedTiddlersPlugin [1] but also Tagsplorer in the whole
concept.

For sure, this is nothing that I will be implemented by tomorrow.