Best way to organize TW?

[EN]

Hi,

I am running into a dilemma whenever i go to add a piece of
information into my personal notebook TW. Do i add each bit of info as
its own tiddler? Or do i organize info into container tiddlers?

Example: Want to add a link to a website. Do I make a separate tiddler
for a single link? Or do I add the link to a list contained in a
"links" tiddler?

I guess the dilemma arises when i think about how I want to find or
link to that piece of info later. Does anybody see where I'm going
with this? There must be some basic concept of micro vs macro data
organization that someone has worked out that applies to this.

Haha, maybe I'll be able to better articulate my thought process
later. Thanks for any help in the meantime!

ian

[Måns]

Hi Ian

> Do i add each bit of info as
> its own tiddler? Or do i organize info into container tiddlers?
>
> Example: Want to add a link to a website. Do I make a separate tiddler
> for a single link? Or do I add the link to a list contained in a
> "links" tiddler?
>
> I guess the dilemma arises when i think about how I want to find or
> link to that piece of info later.

Link: http://tiddlywiki.org/#[[Content%20Management]]

! Information in a tiddler
There are several optional information holders in a tiddler, i.e
holders that allows access to the information from other tiddlers.
* Tags: Data entered in the tags field
* Slices: Data entered into a simple two column table. The first
column lists the field name and the second column the respecive data.
The typical example is the table in the beginning of plugins listing
Name, Version etc.
* Sections: Are what are defined and separated by headings, i.e the
"!" mark (!, !!, !!!)
* Fields: Can be seen when clicking the tiddler menu more>fields. This
typically contains meta information about the tiddler but can contain
any information.

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

[Smandoli]

That is a puzzle -- I agree.  I have discovered it takes a while to find the right way to "chunk" your data.  A completely granular approach has never worked for me; I do use it, though, for knowledge-bits that don't seem to have a place.  Sometimes I have broken tiddlers down into more discrete bits, but more often I gather them up.  Working knowledge-bits is a messy business, and TW makes it just as messy as it wants to be.   One reason TW works so well is I can go ahead with my decision, whichever it is, knowing that revising the approach later is not difficult. 

My personal catch-all TW (ideas, quotes, philosophical notions, petty daily details, journaling and so on) tends to be granular.  It uses links to connect tiddlers only on a lucky day; tags are what really hold it together.  In my TW for program code snippets, I carefully tag everything; but in practice I find stuff by scrolling through the titles or using a simple search.  The tiddlers are very long because my coding is very bad.  I have a different TW for Bible notes; it doesn't use tags much at all and is more tightly organized with larger tiddlers, because the overall scheme or framework for the information is already in place for me mentally (though TW proceeds to let me find surprises outside my mental grid). 

All this means the information should be allowed to sort itself, and the shape of things can differ according to the overall purpose.  (That means using multiple TWs makes sense to me.)  While the information approach is taking shape, there's a lot of experimenting and some false starts; but it all works out, and it seems to me that the process is beneficial.  Sometimes it lets me  internalize my understanding. 

[HansBKK]

One's approach is of course a completely personal decision and depends very much both on the degree of structure of the topic domain, and most importantly your familiarity with that topic and its structure.

Regarding granularity, my rule of thumb is to keep things as large as possible, only break down into smaller chunks when those bits truly need to be in multiple locations, under different topics. Inclusion works well if sequencing is important.

The critical difference is between "collecting" files for your own personal use, and "publishing" ones when you're ready to share a topic domain with others. I've spent so much time creating navigation/scaffolding in TW for different topic domains I've resolved not to do so anymore, until I've become so familiar with the topic I know I'm approaching the ability to do it "once and for all" which of course is never really true, just relative to starting from scratch.

I've found pure tagging to be the best approach in the beginning.

[Eric Weir]

On Jan 10, 2012, at 3:07 AM, HansBKK wrote:

The critical difference is between "collecting" files for your own personal use, and "publishing" ones when you're ready to share a topic domain with others. I've spent so much time creating navigation/scaffolding in TW for different topic domains I've resolved not to do so anymore, until I've become so familiar with the topic I know I'm approaching the ability to do it "once and for all" which of course is never really true, just relative to starting from scratch.

I've found TagglyTagging to be extremely powerful and extremely flexible. It provides for evolution, including periodic revision, as radical as required, of the structure/organization of tiddlers. I can start with only the vaguest idea of the components and their relations. Once I've done some seat-of-the-pants work I may--indeed, I will, *always*--get an insight that reflects a better understanding of the subject and requires a different structure. Renaming tags, creating new tags, and retagging take care of it, usually pretty quickly. 

Good luck--as you seem to realize--getting it down "once and for all." I don't think reality allows any such thing. It is itself in constant evolution.

Regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric Weir

eew...@bellsouth.net

"Any assurance economists pretend to with 

regard to cause and effect is merely a pose."

- Emanuel Derman

[Smandoli]

@Eric -- Great post.  Response 1 was "Oh yeah, I wish I'd said that."  Response 2 was "Wait, what's he talking about?  I use TiddlerTweakerPlugin ... wow, look at this ... got to try it out!"  Response 3 was "Amen to E. Derman about economics."

[HansBKK]

OT but

On Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:24:22 PM UTC+7, Smandoli wrote:

 Response 3 was "Amen to E. Derman about economics."

True for any so-called "science" regarding the human mind or behaviour.

That's why I opted for the old-fashioned "political economic philosophy" for my self-designed major, I quickly saw that statistic-based "scientific" economics was far from exact and IMO just not that interesting. . .

[Smandoli]

After 20 minutes spending reading Group posts on "TagglyTagging", I'm tempted to spoof the Derman quote with something provocative about TW culture. 

[PMario]

You should read http://mptw.tiddlyspot.com/ tiddler Using
"TagglyTagging" to organise your data
-m

[Eric Weir]

On Jan 11, 2012, at 10:45 AM, HansBKK wrote:

That's why I opted for the old-fashioned "political economic philosophy" for my self-designed major, I quickly saw that statistic-based "scientific" economics was far from exact and IMO just not that interesting. . .

Continuing OT:

Good for you. They seem not to have learned much from the recent/current crisis. Their formulas leave out a lot that that can turn their predictions upside down. Never mind, they're beautiful.

Oh, and Derman knows whereof he speaks. He's a physicist turned finance quant. Check out the wikipedia article on him. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Derman>

Regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric Weir

eew...@bellsouth.net

"The invincible shield of caring

Is a weapon sent from the sky 

against being dead." 

- Tao Te Ching 67

[Eric Weir]

Yep. I started with MPTW. Took many of it's features over into Morris Gray's TiddlyWiki-Treeview, customized with a lot of help from Morris, who I sense hasn't appeared here for a good while. Unfortunate.

Regarding TagglyTagging. It had my head spinning till I got the hang of it. It's what's made TW useful to me.

Regards,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?"

- Mary Oliver

[Eric Weir]

On Jan 11, 2012, at 9:24 AM, Smandoli wrote:

@Eric -- Great post.  Response 1 was "Oh yeah, I wish I'd said that."  Response 2 was "Wait, what's he talking about?  I use TiddlerTweakerPlugin ... wow, look at this ... got to try it out!"  Response 3 was "Amen to E. Derman about economics."

Glad you liked it, Smandoli. I was just reporting my experience. 

Regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric Weir

Decatur, GA

eew...@bellsouth.net

"What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, 

men would die from a great loneliness of spirit." 

- Chief Seattle

[Eric Weir]

On Jan 11, 2012, at 11:06 AM, Smandoli wrote:

After 20 minutes spending reading Group posts on "TagglyTagging", I'm tempted to spoof the Derman quote with something provocative about TW culture.  

Well don't leave us hanging like that.

[HansBKK]

On Friday, January 13, 2012 1:13:53 AM UTC+7, Eric Weir wrote:

Yep. I started with MPTW. Took many of it's features over into Morris Gray's TiddlyWiki-Treeview, customized with a lot of help from Morris, who I sense hasn't appeared here for a good while. Unfortunate.

Regarding TagglyTagging. It had my head spinning till I got the hang of it. It's what's made TW useful to me.

I followed exactly the same path over my 3-years with TW, taggly-tagging's awesome. I also like the "Executive" version of one of the Treeview descendants, offering switchable navigation menus.

[Smandoli]

Since we're so far OT, and so interested in Taggly Tagging, I might as well ask ... I've tried installing TT but I don't see all the features.

The drop-down for tags works great.  But I can't find the feature were you mouse-over and get access to a settings panel.  The "tagging" tags aren't appearing any different; and it seems the code has failed to replace the ViewTemplate.  So I feel I'm missing at least 70% of the fun. 

I'm using TW 2.6.4.  Your thoughts?

Oh btw, I got sold on mGSD too.  What a piece of work.  So thanks for that too.

[Måns]

Hi Smadoli

> The "tagging" tags aren't
> appearing any different; and it seems the code has failed to replace the
> ViewTemplate.  So I feel I'm missing at least 70% of the fun.
>
> I'm using TW 2.6.4.  Your thoughts?

Try <<tagglyTagging>> or <div class="tagglyTagging"
macro="tagglyTagging"></div>

You can even insert a tagvalue to evaluate: <<tagglyTagging TagName>>

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

[PMario]

On Jan 13, 2:54 am, Smandoli <themanthurs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>... and it seems the code has failed to replace the

> ViewTemplate.  So I feel I'm missing at least 70% of the fun.

It doesn't try to modify you ViewTemplate. _You_ need to replace
"tagging" macro with "tagglyTagging" macro.

The easiest way to go is, to use an empty MPTW to start with.

But if you want to tweak your own go on reading:
-> Important: Work with a sandbox TW.
-> Don't use a production one :) Just in case you mess it up.

In your ViewTemplate search for
<div class='tagging' macro='tagging'></div>
and remove it

search for:
<div class='viewer' macro='view text wikified'></div>

and add below

<div class="tagglyTagging" macro="tagglyTagging"></div>

it should look like:
<div class='viewer' macro='view text wikified'></div>

<div class="tagglyTagging" macro="tagglyTagging"></div>

-m

[Eric Weir]

On Jan 12, 2012, at 8:54 PM, Smandoli wrote:

Since we're so far OT, and so interested in Taggly Tagging, I might as well ask ... I've tried installing TT but I don't see all the features. 

The drop-down for tags works great.  But I can't find the feature were you mouse-over and get access to a settings panel.  The "tagging" tags aren't appearing any different; and it seems the code has failed to replace the ViewTemplate.  So I feel I'm missing at least 70% of the fun. 

I suggest you get an MPTW and just play around with TagglyTagging on it.

From your comments I sense you don't understand what TagglyTagging is, which I didn't either at first. The basically the idea is that tags are tiddlers and as such can be tagged. That allows you to create a hierarchal structure of tags. And with renaming of tags, creating new tags, and retagging to modify your structure as you go. 

You don't need--nor would you be able to, anyway--figure out the structure once-and-for-all ahead of time. It can evolve as your think evolves, and as it evolves it will stimulate further clarification of your thoughts about the topic.

Regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric Weir

Decatur, GA

eew...@bellsouth.net

"Style is truth." 

- Ray Bradbury

[Eric Weir]

On Jan 13, 2012, at 4:03 AM, PMario wrote:

> The easiest way to go is, to use an empty MPTW to start with.

Amen--especially as it comes with an explanation of TagglyTagging and some simple exercises to give you an initial feel for it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"A writer is a person for whom writing is more difficult
than it is for other people."

- Thomas Mann

[Smandoli]

THANK YOU Måns and Mario.  It looks great and I feel empowered. 

[Tobias Beer]

> You don't need--nor would you be able to, anyway--figure out the structure once-and-for-all ahead of time. It can evolve as your think evolves, and as it evolves it will stimulate further clarification of your thoughts about the topic.

Amen to that.

tb.