Why is this so hard to use now?

[Moe Gibbs]

It used to be so intuitive, and now it's javascript errors or, if I fix that, there's no editor toolbar?

This is getting kinda sad. I have ZERO plugins, just a basic empty and do-over, and it's nothing but problems.

What's going on?

[TW Tones]

Moe,

This does sound like a problem with a particular wiki, can you share it or a reduced example. That would be easyer to troubleshoot.

ore more details would help.

Regards

Tones

[Moe Gibbs]

Thanks, but share it how? I don't know a reduced example is. I'm not a coder. TW used to be easy for we tech-chimps to use. Now just getting basic functionality is a bear. Went to excise, and not edit bar. 

This is looking like a case of someone fixing something that wasn't broken, so now it is.

But, I'm a chimp, so that and five bucks.

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[Birthe C]

Did you overwrite any shadow tiddlers?

Did your formerly installed plugins leave any traces....I mean tiddlers that were created by the plugins?

I am also an end user, but that has been the cause of the few troubles I have had. That and simple spelling errors in the wrong places.

Birthe

[Moe Gibbs]

Thanks. 

I started from scratch and, thus far, and as near as I can tell my problems resulted from:

1. Grammarly.
2. Wonky recommended save methods f/TW site. I'm no coder, but I do know that software and code goes stale. Advise some kind of quality control/currency checker for official plugins, themes, and save methods.

While I'm afraid to do anything but the most basic TW now, as it seems not to be broke so I'm not going to fix it, it seems to be working okay. 

It would be nice to reliable use some plugins, but until it's more stable, "pass." 

Advise same for code gimps like myself. Otherwise, probably not a problem for you.

Thanks alcon for the replies.

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[Moe Gibbs]

PS, 

To answer your question, TW warns you when you're overwriting shadows. I don't screw around with that, at all. I avoid "tweaking" like the plague. No overwriting here.

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 5:43 AM Birthe C <strikke...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Birthe C]

For saving single file TW, Timimi is very good. Works on Windows, Mac and Linux and for Firefox, Chrome, Chromium browsers and more.  Install the extension in your browser as you normally install browser extensions. After you have done that a tiddlywiki opens and explains how to download a file you have to run from your hard drive, set up backup and more. I find it is very clear explained.

You are right, that being able to save reliably and also have backup if something goes wrong is very important.

If you install a saver make sure it works well and that backups are written - and in the right place, before doing serious work in your wiki.

Birthe

[Eric Shulman]

On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 1:23:17 AM UTC-7, Moe Gibbs wrote:

Thanks, but share it how?

There are numerous online "cloud storage" services, such as GoogleDrive, Dropbox, iCloud (even for Windows!), etc.  There are also some free or low-cost web hosting services that allow you to upload your HTML file(s) and serve them online for viewing/downloading by other people.  Just pick a service that allows others read-only access to your file, and upload it.  Then let us know the URL to use to view or download the file.

 

I don't know a reduced example is.

Sometimes people have lots of private information in their TiddlyWiki file that they don't want to expose to the general public... and, even when the information can be shared, it can sometimes be more complex than is needed to demonstrate the issues you are having.  A reduced example, sometimes called a "minimal test case" (MTC), means removing as much content as you can from the file while still reproducing the problems that you are trying to solve.

I'm not a coder. TW used to be easy for we tech-chimps to use. Now just getting basic functionality is a bear. Went to excise, and not edit bar. 
This is looking like a case of someone fixing something that wasn't broken, so now it is.

Many people who are "not coders" use TiddlyWiki with great results and very few problems.  When they DO have problems, the TiddlyWiki community is among the most helpful bunch of people you will find *anywhere* on the internet.

If something *is* broken, the ONLY way it gets fixed is if the people who are having problems provide enough details so that the people with the "deep knowledge" of TiddlyWiki can try to figure it out.  Of course, this can be somewhat difficult since there are many ways to install and use TiddlyWiki on a wide variety of systems and browsers.  That is why we often ask lots of questions and ask you to try different things to see if it solves the problem.  Sometimes that isn't enough, and we will request that you share a copy of your TiddlyWiki, so we can download it and try things ourselves.

I sense your frustration, but there are really only two practical ways to proceed:

A) Work with us so we can help you achieve success with TiddlyWiki.

or

B) Give up and try some other software that might satisfy your goals.

-e

[Eric Shulman]

On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 3:13:59 AM UTC-7, Moe Gibbs wrote:

I started from scratch and, thus far, and as near as I can tell my problems resulted from:

1. Grammarly.

There are some browser add-ons that automatically "inject" code into every HTML file you load in the browser.  Most of the time, these add-ons do good things, and typically work well with lots of "normal" websites.  However... TiddlyWiki is *much* more sophisticated than most websites.  It provides a highly-interactive customizable "framework" for doing lots of different kinds of information activities, and is intended to work with a wide variety of systems and browsers... and it does this in a single, self-contained HTML file, without *requiring* installation of any special software on your system (see below, regarding "file savers").

2. Wonky recommended save methods f/TW site. I'm no coder, but I do know that software and code goes stale.

There are LOTS of different ways to configure TiddlyWiki to save to your local filesystem.  Most of these methods involve installing various "helper" programs that let you work around the rather strict "security" barriers that modern browsers have with regard to accessing your local files and directories.

However, there is one method that is *built-in* to the TWCore code, that doesn't require any "helper" programs whatsoever.  This method is called the "default download saver", and uses your browser's standard "download a file" interface to save changes to your TiddlyWiki files.  In effect, each time you "save" the file, it is really doing a "download"... even when the file was loaded from your local filesystem.

Most browsers have settings you can configure to tell it how to handle downloads.  In particular, you can tell your browser to "always ask where to save the downloaded file", rather than having it use a fixed location (e.g., the standard "Downloads" folder).  After setting the "always ask" option, each time you "save" your TiddlyWiki, you will be prompted by the browser to select a folder and enter or select a filename.

If you choose an existing filename, you are asked to confirm overwriting that file.  Some browsers will automatically suggest a number that is added to the filename (e.g., "(1)", "(2)", etc.) to avoid accidentally overwriting a file.  I will often use the automatic file numbering feature to save "checkpoints" as I work, so that if I break something, I can just reload the previously saved version.  Once I am confident that I've got things working the way I want, I can then use the "download saver" to select the original filename and overwrite it.  Then, I can use my system to select all the "checkpoint" files and delete them, leaving just the one file remaining.

All of the above is accomplished without using any "wonky" file saving methods, and will *never* "go stale" because it uses your browser's code to do the work.  As long as you keep your browser up-to-date, the "download saver" will *always* work.

Advise some kind of quality control/currency checker for official plugins, themes, and save methods.

Do keep in mind that TiddlyWiki is an all-volunteer "labor of love".  There is no funded organization to pay for someone to perform full-time "quality control" checks.  Even so, we try our best to keep things working properly... but to do this, we must rely upon the help and cooperation of the general TiddlyWiki user base to report problems and then work with us to solve them.

-e

[Charlie Veniot]

Whatever TiddlyWiki file is giving you errors, can you attach the file in a reply post in this thread?

Aside: it might be helpful to know what operating system you are using, what web browser, and the versions for both.

 

On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 5:23:17 AM UTC-3, Moe Gibbs wrote:

Thanks, but share it how? I don't know a reduced example is. I'm not a coder. TW used to be easy for we tech-chimps to use. Now just getting basic functionality is a bear. Went to excise, and not edit bar. 

This is looking like a case of someone fixing something that wasn't broken, so now it is.

But, I'm a chimp, so that and five bucks.

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 4:17 AM TW Tones <anthon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Moe,

This does sound like a problem with a particular wiki, can you share it or a reduced example. That would be easyer to troubleshoot.

ore more details would help.

Regards

Tones

On Saturday, 26 September 2020 18:06:54 UTC+10, Moe Gibbs wrote:

It used to be so intuitive, and now it's javascript errors or, if I fix that, there's no editor toolbar?

This is getting kinda sad. I have ZERO plugins, just a basic empty and do-over, and it's nothing but problems.

What's going on?

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[Chuck R.]

Reduced example = smallest, simplist TW file that illustrates the problem clearly.

[Chuck R.]

To share your reduced example wiki file try these options:

Copy your `mywiki.html` file to `mywiki.html.txt`. Adding this `.txt` extension will allow it to be attached to nearly all forums or email programs so other people can download the file. Many forums will make an attachment with a certain file type unavailable as they may contain harmful code. Appending `.txt` gets around this and it works great for Outlook email too. Some of the commonly banned filetypes are: .pl (Perl), .docx, .xlsx, .html, .pdf.

Now you can send the .txt file to cloud services like Dropbox, Onedrive, Google Drive, or any other drive services and send us the link to the file. Make sure the file on the cloud service is public so we can access it, save it, and take a look at it.

Or just attach the .html.txt file to a message here in the forum.

On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 4:06:54 AM UTC-4 5pcm1...@gmail.com wrote: