How do I use this thing?

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Mark Jones

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Jun 10, 2018, 1:56:35 AM6/10/18
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I'm using Chrome on Windows 7.

I've downloaded empty. Where do I save it? Do I just leave it in download folder? MUST I leave it there? can I move it elsewhere?

If I use the savetiddlers extension for Chrome, every time I open the URL for tiddlywiki, I get the original Getting Started box, no matter how many times I change the name, or whether I create new tiddlers. If I open the "Recent" tab, I can see the tiddlers I created, but that damn Getting Started box is still the only thing present. What am I doing wrong?

If I use the Dropbox save option (which I'd rather use, frankly, so I can access my wiki from other machiens), do I still save empty on my computer? Where? Do I save it in Dropbox? Where?

I've found the instructions on tiddlywiki.com to be all but useless to me. I don't usually have this much trouble figuring out how to install or use a piece of software, and I don't like it.

Eric Shulman

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Jun 10, 2018, 2:37:36 AM6/10/18
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On Saturday, June 9, 2018 at 10:56:35 PM UTC-7, Mark Jones wrote:
I'm using Chrome on Windows 7.
I've downloaded empty. Where do I save it? Do I just leave it in download folder? MUST I leave it there? can I move it elsewhere?

You can save the empty.html anywhere you like.  You can move it from the Download folder.  You can open the locally-saved empty.html to start editing.  However, I recommend *copying* the empty.html to another file, e.g. "mystuff.html" and then editing that file.  In this way, you can keep a fresh empty.html available to copy whenever you want to start a new TiddlyWiki document.
 
If I use the savetiddlers extension for Chrome, every time I open the URL for tiddlywiki, I get the original Getting Started box, no matter how many times I change the name, or whether I create new tiddlers. If I open the "Recent" tab, I can see the tiddlers I created, but that damn Getting Started box is still the only thing present. What am I doing wrong?

The initial display of tiddlers is controlled by the $:/DefaultTiddlers content, which can be set by opening the Control Panel (gear icon in sidebar), in the Info/Basic tab. Find the Default Tiddlers input box and enter the titles of tiddlers that you want to have appear at startup.  In addition to listing tiddler titles, you can also use TW Filter syntax to specify a set of titles to open at startup.  For example, if you enter "[tag[startup]]" into the Default Tiddlers input, then any tiddlers tagged with "startup" will be included in the initial tiddler display.  There is also an option to "Retain Story Ordering", which will use "[list[$:/StoryList]]" as a filter.  This filter will display whatever tiddlers were previously open when the the TiddlyWiki document was saved.
 
If I use the Dropbox save option (which I'd rather use, frankly, so I can access my wiki from other machiens), do I still save empty on my computer? Where? Do I save it in Dropbox? Where?

I don't use Dropbox myself, so I'm not 100% familiar with the required setup, but I *think* that you are supposed to put your TiddlyWiki document into your local Dropbox folder.  Then, after enabling the Dropbox save option, you should just be able to invoke save from within TiddlyWiki to write to the remote Dropbox copy.  Then, Dropbox's normal 'sync' will make that updated file available locally so the next time you open it (from your local dropbox folder), it should have your changes.
 
I've found the instructions on tiddlywiki.com to be all but useless to me. I don't usually have this much trouble figuring out how to install or use a piece of software, and I don't like it.

TiddlyWiki is an atypical "application" and it takes a bit of getting used to.  I'm sorry you had such difficulty with the instructions.  It is one of the areas where we are always looking for improvements, especially in helping new users get up to speed.  After you have gotten past the initial learning curve, perhaps you can suggest some changes to the content that might help explain things better for new users.

Let me know how it goes...

enjoy,
-e
Eric Shulman
TiddlyTools.com: "Small Tools for Big Ideas!" (tm)
InsideTiddlyWiki: The Missing Manuals

Birthe C

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Jun 10, 2018, 3:33:24 AM6/10/18
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Using savetiddlers extension you must create a subdir called tiddlywikilocations in the Download dir. Using linux I can also use folders linked to tiddlywikilocations. I think Mark S once explained that windows users could use junctions.


It works well. I still find that the browser restrictions makes it more difficult to have our wikies sorted. Give your wikifile a name you can recognize in all this, because no matter what, at least I end up with files called tiddlywiki, tiddlywiki1, tiddlywiki2, and also empty and upgrade files.


Birthe





Tahoka Freeway

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Jun 10, 2018, 4:11:21 AM6/10/18
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Mark, most here understand the frustration.  Hang in there, it is worth sticking with.

Not long ago, you used to be able to open, edit  and save wiki changes via the web browser of your choosing, anywhere, anytime.  That's gone through no fault of Tiddlywiki, but by the browser writers.

Anyway, download Empty.   Rename it to the wiki you want to use.

I save mine in Dropbox under it's own folder name or just a Wiki folder.  Note you have to work from the local file folder, you won't be able to directly use the web-version document in Dropbox.  Dropbox won't allow it.  But any local file changes will be synced and can be shared on other local drives.  I sync mine between home and work computers.

As you can see at Tiddlywiki.com, there a variety of platforms to try. I recommend you download the TiddlyDesktop to start with.  This means you will need to work on your wiki from TiddlyDesktop when it comes to editing and saving.

Add your new wiki to TiddlyDesktop.  This will allow you to open and edit your wiki and save changes without issues.  

Next, I'm assuming you know how to create and edit tiddlers.  If not, the very first thing to do is go create a new tiddler, (click the "+" symbol) and name it for example "My Starting Page".    
Under Tools, go to the Control Panel - Info - Basics and where it says Default tiddlers, put [[My Starting Page]] or whatever title you use.  Also fill in the Title of this TiddlyWiki and subtitle.  Click the "X" to close the control panel.

That will get you started and play around with it.  It's pretty special piece of software as you get to know it.  It's just not an Out of the Box software package.

Good luck.

Eric Shulman

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Jun 10, 2018, 11:04:57 AM6/10/18
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On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 1:11:21 AM UTC-7, Tahoka Freeway wrote:
Not long ago, you used to be able to open, edit  and save wiki changes via the web browser of your choosing, anywhere, anytime.  That's gone through no fault of Tiddlywiki, but by the browser writers.

Let's be VERY clear here.  Saving "via the web browser of your choosing, anywhere, anytime" is not gone.  It just relies upon the "default download saver".

This saver -- which is built into the TW core code... NO plugins or external programs needed -- DOES work in almost all browsers.  It does this by triggering the browser's standard "download a file" handling to deliver the changed TiddlyWiki content to your filesystem, **even when working with local files**.

The exact interaction "flow" varies a bit depending upon your system and browser setup.  By default, most browsers save files into your "Download" directory and, if the filename is already in use, will either prompt for overwrite, request a different filename, or automatically add "(n)" suffix to the filename to avoid the conflict.

Many browsers also let you enable "Always ask for location before saving", which will display the local system's "Save As" dialog to let you choose the location (and filename) to be saved.  In this dialog, some browsers default to the "Download" directory, but most will default to the *current working directory* (i.e., the folder you were in when you opened your TW).

So, for example, let's say I'm working with a TW file named "index.html".  With the download saver (setup as above), when I invoke the Save File command in TW, a dialog box pops up, pointing at the current directory.  In the file list, I can see the file I am working on (e.g., "index.html").  On my platform (Win10), the dialog automatically suggests a new filename of "index.html (1)".  But, I want to overwrite the original file, so I select "index.html" from the file list.  Then I press the "Save" button and I'm done.

In summary, the sequence is:
1) press Save File button in TW
2) select "index.html" in the filelist
3) press Save button in file dialog

Note: when working on complex changes to a TW document, I often save "checkpoints" along the way, allowing the download saver to add the "(n)" suffix to save files, before continuing to edit my document.  This gives me an easy way to back out any changes that break things.  When I am satisfied that my changes are good, I save back to the original filename (without the "(n)" suffix) and delete the "checkpoint" files to clean up.  The actions need to save are even more trivial than above...

1) press Save File button in TW
2) press Save button in file dialog

I even use this process when starting new documents *directly from TiddlyWiki.com*.  I simply go to https://tiddlywiki.com/empty.html and start editing (creating new tiddlers, configuring Control Panel options, etc.)  When I am ready, I invoke the download saver to save the file (with my changes) on my local filesystem.  Then I open that local file and continue as above.

Mark S.

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Jun 10, 2018, 12:13:41 PM6/10/18
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Hello, Mark J.


On Saturday, June 9, 2018 at 10:56:35 PM UTC-7, Mark Jones wrote:

I've downloaded empty. Where do I save it? Do I just leave it in download folder? MUST I leave it there? can I move it elsewhere?


You move it anywhere and call it what you want, BUT the default save mechanism (basically the download mechanism) always either (1) asks you where to save each time or (2) saves to the download directory depending on your settings. "savetiddlers" also wants to save in a directory somewhere below your downloads directory. There is a trick with Windows Junctions that will allow you to save anywhere on your hard drive.

 
If I use the savetiddlers extension for Chrome, every time I open the URL for tiddlywiki, I get the original Getting Started box, no matter how many times I change the name, or whether I create new tiddlers. If I open the "Recent" tab, I can see the tiddlers I created, but that damn Getting Started box is still the only thing present. What am I doing wrong?


Trying to understand -- If you can see the tiddlers you created, then you are seeing more than just the "Getting Started" tiddler. Perhaps by "tiddlers" you actually mean wikis? What do you mean "every time I open the URL" ? A URL is a web path, not a local machine path. Do you mean the file path on your local machine? If you're opening a URL (path to the web) on TiddlyWiki then of course you're going to see the same site every time.
 
If I use the Dropbox save option (which I'd rather use, frankly, so I can access my wiki from other machiens), do I still save empty on my computer? Where? Do I save it in Dropbox? Where?


Are you talking about TiddlyWiki in the Sky? Or are you trying to save to a local directory? If you are trying to save to a local DB directory, then you have all the same concerns of saving a local file that you have with "savetiddlers" or the default download mechanism.

If you save with TiddlyWiki in the Sky, you just have to go through the TWITS sign in screens. After that, you work right in the browser. Behind the scenes your wiki is saved and synched to your local machine. The problem with this approach is that you have to have constant net connection in order to save.

HTH

-- Mark

Mark Jones

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Jun 10, 2018, 5:43:17 PM6/10/18
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Thanks for the replies.

I've given up on trying to use Dropbox. Or even TiddlyDesktop. I can install that and launch it--once. Once I close it, if I try to start it again, nothing happens. Except that nw.exe runs in the background, as many instances as I try to start it again, but does nothing. And because it's running in the background, I couldn't even delete the folder until I figured that out.

So I've installed empty. Renamed it to MyFicWiki. I can open it and make changes, but every change creates a new file. MyFickWiki (1), My FicWiki(1) (1), My FicWiki(1) (1) (1). Which is ridiculous. How do get it to save to just ONE file, overwriting that one instead of creating potentially thousands of files?

Eric Shulman

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Jun 10, 2018, 6:44:41 PM6/10/18
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On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 2:43:17 PM UTC-7, Mark Jones wrote:
So I've installed empty. Renamed it to MyFicWiki. I can open it and make changes, but every change creates a new file. MyFickWiki (1), My FicWiki(1) (1), My FicWiki(1) (1) (1). Which is ridiculous. How do get it to save to just ONE file, overwriting that one instead of creating potentially thousands of files?

As per my previous post... you need to set your browser to "ask for location".   If you are using Chrome, here's the specific steps (note: You only have to do this ONCE)

1) Open Settings from 'three dots' menu (upper right of window)
2) scroll to the bottom
3) select "advanced"
4) scroll to the download section
5) enable the "ask where to save each file before downloading"

Then, as per my previous post, when you press the Save File button, you will be prompted for location (and filename).  Simply select "MyFickWiki" in the file list, and then press the "save" button in the dialog.  You will be asked to confirm overwrite, and then the file is saved.  Q.E.D.

enjoy,
-e


Mark S.

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Jun 10, 2018, 6:48:12 PM6/10/18
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tiddlysavers doesn't seem to work for me either, giving an error message in the extensions panel, and a wrong version number. When I try to save it says it can't do it because I've given an unusable download directory. It could be that there is some sort of version conflict, or conflict with an existing extension. I don't use Chrome very often, so it hasn't been a high priority.

But back to your question.

Hopefully this extension hasn't disappeared, but I was to find the eponymously named extension: "Downloads Overwrite Existing Files".

When I search for that on Chrome store, I actually find 2 entries, and I don't which, if either is the one I'm using since I apparently installed it from local disk.

Keep in mind that this extension could be dangerous if you routinely download files that have the same name but different contents.

Good luck!
-- Mark


On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 2:43:17 PM UTC-7, Mark Jones wrote:

Mark Jones

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Jun 10, 2018, 7:21:35 PM6/10/18
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Okay, that's what I needed. It works. Thanks.

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 3:44 PM, Eric Shulman <elsd...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 2:43:17 PM UTC-7, Mark Jones wrote:
So I've installed empty. Renamed it to MyFicWiki. I can open it and make changes, but every change creates a new file. MyFickWiki (1), My FicWiki(1) (1), My FicWiki(1) (1) (1). Which is ridiculous. How do get it to save to just ONE file, overwriting that one instead of creating potentially thousands of files?

As per my previous post... you need to set your browser to "ask for location".   If you are using Chrome, here's the specific steps (note: You only have to do this ONCE)

1) Open Settings from 'three dots' menu (upper right of window)
2) scroll to the bottom
3) select "advanced"
4) scroll to the download section
5) enable the "ask where to each file before downloading"

Then, as per my previous post, when you press the Save File button, you will be prompted for location (and filename).  Simply select "MyFickWiki" in the file list, and then press the "save" button in the dialog.  You will be asked to confirm overwrite, and then the file is saved.  Q.E.D.

enjoy,
-e


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Mark Jones

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Jun 10, 2018, 7:25:31 PM6/10/18
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Another question: according to the tiddlywiki, if I click on the "insert image" icon, I should be able to select a picture and insert it. But it doesn't do anything. The only thing that option does is provide an option to "include system tiddlers" which shows a single flag icon. The "Insert Image" text isn't clickable.

Mark S.

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Jun 10, 2018, 8:31:43 PM6/10/18
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The image has to already be in your TW -- it doesn't browse your disk as you might expect.

You can get an image into your TW by dragging and dropping it. But just a few large images will make your TW non-functional. It's better to use external images.

You can also create an external link to a file. Per tiddlywiki.com:

An external image is an ordinary image tiddler that has a _canonical_uri field containing the URI of the image. The URI can be absolute or relative to the HTML document. If the canonical URI is provided then the text field of the tiddler is ignored and so should be omitted.

It's kind of a pain. Usually I just use [img[path-to-image]] or a macro that does something similar (the macro allows me to change the image path as needed).

Good luck,
-- Mark
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