Reflections -- On the LAG on Getting Up And Doing

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I followed DesignWriteStudio, run by Steve @ SUNYPoly, with interest for a second year.

I'm interested in what new students of TW in an active learning context can achieve in a limited time period. Some of the resulting TW are very good.

But ONE thing that absolutely stands out to me is what long term users here know (that DWS students don't at first)--the current complications in FINDING TW exemplars, and code examples, you need to solve problems and evolve one's TW ...

Its currently far too much work unless you have a degree in Information Forensics.

Here is a great comment by one student ...

There are a few areas that are a bit mysterious still to me (I initially tried creating this with fewer plugins, but couldn't get it to work until I added others found through the Google Group). If I was to recreate this, I'd probably start by immediately importing every plugin I used.

The comment is considered and liberal. But it illustrates the issue--that its laborious at the moment to adequately evaluate extant solutions. Typically, you can only say what you SHOULD have used AFTER you went through a complex process of trial-and-error to find out.

I think some of the issues SUNYPoly students had were never addressed or solved simply because its currently too complicated for them (and us) to figure out what is where and what is what--though there ARE solutions that could have solved some of their issues better. And their teacher, Steve, is a mortal who can't know ALL that has been done or where to find it.

IMO, knowing ALL is for SYSTEMS of AGGREGATION. It can't be in people's heads. And its can't work well through random posts. Normal posts here on GG often solve problems well. But mostly those solutions disappear into the Google Swamp within a few days.

Just moaning (again) from the fog
Josiah

[TonyM]

Josiah,

I understand the "ideal state" you seek, I think it a worthy ideal that we may expect never to reach but should keep trying to find.

I hope as my involvement increases I can help in the realisation of this ideal. 

There is however a counter force and that is TiddlyWiki is a platform and ecosystem. If TiddlyWiki was a Programming language, we would understand the results may often not be visible to us.

Once again we can see that TiddlyWiki has so many personalities and possible outcomes, It can be a platform but also a user application, that even the documentation can struggle to address. A lot of solutions or plugins are created by "free lancers" so it is amazing the consistency we do have.

I think there is a maturity coming to tiddlywiki which will help students and new comers, It is our obligation to develop and promote this"maturity", if we depend on TiddlyWiki.

Regards

Tony

  

[Mohammad]

Josiah,

 I also use the TW for my students. The issue is due to the non-linear nature of TW, most students confuse and it is difficult to them to find a good solution for their problems in using TW.

As a simple wiki the bare TW (standard edition) is enough, but as they go in depth for more applied usage like dissertation, project and term papers they have problems can not be addressed

 by themselves nor from TW documentation nor simply from TW forum.

I think one way is to have more editions for different applications, also a structured step by step tutorial (basics, intermediate and advanced) can be helpful.

One more thing indicated by TonyM, TiddlyWiki is not just a  wiki, it is like a programming language and there is many many ways to adopt it for your own application. While this

is a very good strength of TW, it makes confusion for newcomers.

Best

Mohammad

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

I'm aware I may be coming over more negative than I actually am. But I do think there is "fragmentation" of resources in TW that is avoidable.

Mohammad wrote:

 I also use the TW for my students. The issue is due to the non-linear nature of TW, most students confuse and it is difficult to them to find a good solution for their problems in using TW.

I fully agree the dilemma of students can be very much like that. And it is not that different than, say, you wanted to train in Anthropology. That field, like any, has its own logic & it takes time to orientate.

But I don't think that is our central issue.
 

As a simple wiki the bare TW (standard edition) is enough, but as they go in depth for more applied usage like dissertation, project and term papers they have problems can not be addressed

 by themselves nor from TW documentation nor simply from TW forum.

Right. Exactly. THAT is my point.

And I am absolutely sure we could organise better to address it. Part of the issue is it needs time & people to do it. And another part, a bigger part, is one person can't do that really. So, in the end, I've concluded  

...it is much more about having a METHODOLOGY, A SYSTEM, for being able to quickly organise links to significant stuff.

...THAT we lack in an adequate form. Full stop.

 

I think one way is to have more editions for different applications, also a structured step by step tutorial (basics, intermediate and advanced) can be helpful.

Yep. I agree. But as I have indicated several times before its a bit of a myth that we lack editions or that we lack basic documentation for them. Rather, the issue is that the main source of (adequate enough proto-)documentation is THIS GG group you reading now. And it has NO sense of history. So once a thread is completed its disappears into a messy swamp you can't accurately find things in. But much of most of what you need is usually in the archive for this list somewhere.

In brief: You often can't find what you need when you need it. Apart from tiddlywiki.com, everything is too DISORGANISED.

 

One more thing indicated by TonyM, TiddlyWiki is not just a  wiki, it is like a programming language and there is many many ways to adopt it for your own application. While this

is a very good strength of TW, it makes confusion for newcomers.

TonyM is right. But the "finding issue" applies there too, I think.

BTW, it has been very interesting to watch, and help a bit, David Gifford develop TiddlyWiki Toolmap, a basic listing of some resources. Its indicative of the richness available that to otherwise find would be burdensome. It is really helpful to have. But its still only the Tip Of An Informational Iceberg that is largely invisible.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Mohammad]

Many thanks Josiah,

 I should also add the resources by Tobias Beer. A collection of solution to questions raised in this forum!

Best

Mohammad