[TW5] REQUEST. Could we please get a TWC theme?

[Leo Staley]

One of the biggest hurdles to me adopting TW5 is the visual layout. 

Virtually every visual change from TWC to TW5, I find to be downright intolerable for my own uses, From there only being one sidebar, and further, one which takes up so much space and scrolls separately from the story river, to buttons now being icons, to the wikitext and text display rules which take up so much more vertical space, to the total lack of an equivalent "tiddler's bar",  or the splendid, comprehensive-yet-compact display of tags with TagglyTagging (demonstrated here quite well). 

Several months ago, I tried doing it myself a few times, but it was too hard for me. So, for quite a while now I've been strongly hoping and waiting for a TWC theme for TW5, with the top bar, 2 side bars that scroll with the page (and occupy much less horizontal space), and text display and wikitext rules which keep things much more compact, like TWC. Now that 5.1x has been released, I figured it would be a fair time to ask again. 

Main parts of the request are:

* 3 column display with a top bar, mimicking very closely TWC's layout

* text buttons instead of just the icons (and so it can be more compact)

* generally more compact display of text, like in TWC. 

* "Tiddler's bar" for having tabs to show open tiddlers

* TagglyTagging style display of tags(optional, if possible, and customizable like TagglyTagging. I particularly enjoy being able to dynamically change the sort order based on different criteria, and changing the number of columns used to display them )

I could also really go for some of those other really nice, visually helpful plugins, like NestedSlidersPlugin, the pleasantly customizable TagSearch and SimpleTreePlugin,  and the QuickEditToolbar too, but I don't wanna go overboard here. 

Yes. I do know that this actually would happen to be a lot more work than i'm making it sound like. But I would be unendingly grateful, and, now that I myself am employed too, would be willing to donate to the tidldywiki cause in order to have this (set of) wish(es) somehow granted. 

I'd also then try to produce, from that, some basic packages to help other beginners get started into Tiddlywiki. Anyway, toodles to y'all, and good luck.

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Looks like you are so used to TWC that you don't want to leave away any single detail.

Instead of asking for turn TW5 into TWC I think it should be better to stick to TWC and ask to update its core to work with modern browsers and modern ways of saving. A new core of TWC has been released recently, so I think the project stills alive.

Why do you want to switch to TW5? From your description I think that adapting TWC would fit better your needs since you don't like any of the news that comes with TW5.

Regards

[Evolena]

I'm confused. I don't recognize TWC in what you're describing.

OK, TWC has 3 columns display. This is achievable thanks to Ton Gerner's guide, I assume.
OK for text buttons too. There is an option for that in TW5 (ControlPanel, Setting, Toolbar buttons). However, my hunch is that the result will be "too big" for you. This is certainly quite easy to modify.
TWC is not more compact than TW5, at least if you compare tiddlywiki.com and classic.tiddlywiki.com. The difference seems very slight to me.
Tiddler bar is a plugin, as are all the other things you mention (I've used some of them in TWC, they are useful but by the time someone re-do them, I'm getting used to vanilla TW5).

So you don't want a TWC theme, you want your TWC+theme+plugin edition. Maybe do you use MPTW instead of a classic TWC?

I think Eric Shulman has asked several times these last weeks for user's prefered plugins to begin with for him to adapt in TW5. I don't know if he is the author of some of the plugins you mention.

[Eucaly J]

Hi Leo:

Yes, stick to TWC should be OK.

While, below are some counterparts for you to compare

TWC    => TW5
text buttons    => $:/ControlPanel > Settings > Toolbar Buttons, or direct link
"tiddler's bar"    => QuickJump or http://tw5breadcrumbs.tiddlyspot.com/
TagglyTagging (demonstrated here quite well). => PopupTagger
NestedSlidersPlugin,   => Classic Slider Demo  ???
TagSearch     => TagsSearch-Plugin
SimpleTreePlugin    => TableOfContentsMacro
QuickEditToolbar    => ???

In addition, you might want to check how I switch from TWC to TW5

[Evolena]

Eucaly, it seems you forgot the target of your last link (how you switch from TWC to TW5).
Maybe this would be interesting to reference in tiddlywiki.com (near "what happenned to the original tiddlywiki") ?

[Eucaly J]

Hi Evolena:

Thanks for reminding.

Eucaly, it seems you forgot the target of your last link (how you switch from TWC to TW5).
Maybe this would be interesting to reference in tiddlywiki.com (near "what happenned to the original tiddlywiki") ?

In fact, I am referring to my own atricle for switch from TWC to TW5 [8]
While, "what happenned to the original tiddlywiki" [9] should also be useful

Anyway, representing those links as below.

[1] http://tiddlywiki.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fui%2FControlPanel%2FSettings%2FToolbarButtons
[2] http://eucaly-tw5.tiddlyspot.com/#QuickJump
[3] http://tw5breadcrumbs.tiddlyspot.com/
[4] http://eucaly-tw5.tiddlyspot.com/#PopupTagger
[5] http://tiddlywiki.com/plugins/tiddlywiki/tw2parser/#Classic%20Slider%20Demo
[6] http://braintest.tiddlyspot.com/#TagsSearch-Plugin:TagsSearch-Plugin
[7] http://tiddlywiki.com/#TableOfContentsMacro
[8] http://eucaly-tw5.tiddlyspot.com/#TiddlyWiki%20and%20Me
[9] http://tiddlywiki.com/#What%20happened%20to%20the%20original%20TiddlyWiki%3F

TWC    => TW5
text buttons    => $:/ControlPanel > Settings > Toolbar Buttons, or direct link  [1]
"tiddler's bar"    => QuickJump [2] or http://tw5breadcrumbs.tiddlyspot.com/ [3]
TagglyTagging (demonstrated here quite well). => PopupTagger [4]
NestedSlidersPlugin,   => Classic Slider Demo [5] ???
TagSearch     => TagsSearch-Plugin [6]
SimpleTreePlugin    => TableOfContentsMacro [7]
QuickEditToolbar    => ???

In addition, you might want to check how I switch from TWC to TW5 [8]

[Leo Staley]

Hey everybody, Thanks for the responses!

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 7:58:33 AM UTC-7, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:

Looks like you are so used to TWC that you don't want to leave away any single detail.

Not at all. Just most of the visual, surface elements. 

 

Instead of asking for turn TW5 into TWC I think it should be better to stick to TWC and ask to update its core to work with modern browsers and modern ways of saving. A new core of TWC has been released recently, so I think the project stills alive.

The problem with that is that the entire architecture of it is incompatible; it CANNOT be just tweaked to work with modern browsers, and even if it could be, it won't be. it's legacy, and is gonna stay that way. And even if it were possible, there are so many features of TW5, that I want...

 

Why do you want to switch to TW5? From your description I think that adapting TWC would fit better your needs since you don't like any of the news that comes with TW5.

Oh, to the contrary! I just can't stand the SURFACE, visual elements of it, which, for me, waste up tons of vertical and horizontal space. I'm quite eager to try out many of the new functionalities of TW5. I am just not proficient enough at CSS and HTML to do the basic adjustments I'm wanting.

[Leo Staley]

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:52:47 AM UTC-7, Evolena wrote:

I'm confused. I don't recognize TWC in what you're describing.

OK, TWC has 3 columns display. This is achievable thanks to Ton Gerner's guide, I assume.

Currently, using Ton's guide, it only shows one column at a time. It used to show 3 columns, but even still the sidebar and the story river don't scroll together like in TWC, which I find to be an enormously problem. I know others don't, so that's why it's a request for just a theme. Furthermore, even with Ton's guide, the right sidebar always takes up WAAAAAY too much room, especially compared to TWC. and no, going into the settings to make a fixed width isn't a good solution for me because i use multiple monitors, some of them different sized. 

 

OK for text buttons too. There is an option for that in TW5 (ControlPanel, Setting, Toolbar buttons). However, my hunch is that the result will be "too big" for you. This is certainly quite easy to modify.

Thank you! I didn't know about that!

 

TWC is not more compact than TW5, at least if you compare tiddlywiki.com and classic.tiddlywiki.com. The difference seems very slight to me.

The amount vertical space taken up by a tiddler's titlebar and controls area is much greater, and the space between lines is significantly greater, as well as the space between the tiddlers themselves, and I much prefer TWC's lack of boxes around each individual tiddler. 

 

Tiddler bar is a plugin, as are all the other things you mention (I've used some of them in TWC, they are useful but by the time someone re-do them, I'm getting used to vanilla TW5).

So you don't want a TWC theme, you want your TWC+theme+plugin edition. Maybe do you use MPTW instead of a classic TWC?

I've got my well modified TWC, but there are dozens of reasons to migrate to TW5, and I'd be willing to tweak it and use it myself, as long as I could have an edition which was visually comfortable for me

I think Eric Shulman has asked several times these last weeks for user's prefered plugins to begin with for him to adapt in TW5. I don't know if he is the author of some of the plugins you mention.

He is.

 

[Leo Staley]

Please don't take my response here as rude. I appreciate your helpfulness, and most of your suggestions here are about a lesser issue to me, the plugins, and I'm not trying to complain about the current state of TW5 plugins; merely discussing the specific replacement options you've suggested. 

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:53:08 AM UTC-7, Eucaly J wrote:

Hi Leo:

Yes, stick to TWC should be OK.

 

While, below are some counterparts for you to compare

TWC    => TW5
text buttons    => $:/ControlPanel > Settings > Toolbar Buttons, or direct link

THANK YOU! I didn't know this! I remember Jeremy had mentioned it at one point, but I didn't know it got implemented. SWEET!

 

"tiddler's bar"    => QuickJump or http://tw5breadcrumbs.tiddlyspot.com/

 I didn't know about Quickjump, so thanks very much for that, but it's still a far cry. I'm interested to see how this functionality progresses. the breadcrumbs are currently buggy and quite less than satisfactory right now. (though I really appreciate Ton's work!)

TagglyTagging (demonstrated here quite well). => PopupTagger

Totally unrelated to each other. The functionality of TagglyTagging I'm talking about is the display of a tiddler's tags while viewing the tiddler, in that organized set of columns, with options to switch your view of how they are organized and sorted, on the fly, (including the number of columns used to display it). You're talking about the TW5 version of the <<tag>> macro, or the monkey tagger pluggin, or the Tagsearch plugin, whereas TagglyTagging was really a vast replacement for the <<tagging>> macro. 

NestedSlidersPlugin,   => Classic Slider Demo  ??? 

Yeah, nothing really to replace this one yet, but this one isn't nearly as high on my wishlist, as TagSearch, TiddlersBar, and TagglyTagging display of tags. 

TagSearch     => TagsSearch-Plugin

 

Also Totally unrelated. Inverse mistake as above. TagSearch is basically a greatly enhanced monkeytagger plugin. The similarity in name with the totally unrelated TagsSearch-Plugin is an unfortunate coincidence.  I blame this on the fact that TagSearch was a terribly misleading name for something that should have been named something like, "Popup tagger" So, it seems Popup Tagger would actually be the current TWC replacement for TagSearchPlugin. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to use it yet, but hopefully it will eventually be able to suit my needs.

SimpleTreePlugin    => TableOfContentsMacro

Not what I use it for, but thanks for the suggestion!

 

QuickEditToolbar    => ???

In addition, you might want to check how I switch from TWC to TW5

Please know, My hopes for ports of the great TWC plugins are much subordinate to my hopes and request for a TWC theme. Mostly involving:

1) Smaller sidebars, (2 of them) which scroll with the story river, not separately,

2) More vertically compact display of lines and tiddlers, and more horizontally compact display of sidebars. On the Community Tiddler on Tiddlywiki.com, there used to be a link to a theme which worked toward that quite a bit, but it was really buggy, and I can't find it now anyway. 

[Evolena]

Did you tried the seamless theme?
 

Tiddler bar is a plugin, as are all the other things you mention (I've used some of them in TWC, they are useful but by the time someone re-do them, I'm getting used to vanilla TW5).

So you don't want a TWC theme, you want your TWC+theme+plugin edition. Maybe do you use MPTW instead of a classic TWC?

I've got my well modified TWC, but there are dozens of reasons to migrate to TW5, and I'd be willing to tweak it and use it myself, as long as I could have an edition which was visually comfortable for me

I realize that I've not been clear in my sentences, I didn't intend to say "stay in TWC".
You don't want a TWC theme, you want your TWC+theme+plugins edition in TW5. Maybe do you currently use MPTW (it is an edition with a more compact display and already packaged with TagglyTagging and a title bar, among others things) instead of a classic TWC ?
What I mean by saying this is that you are using a personalized version of TWC, so a TWC-theme for TW5 which fits your needs will not be the TWC-theme for TW5 which will fits other users' needs.
 

I think Eric Shulman has asked several times these last weeks for user's prefered plugins to begin with for him to adapt in TW5. I don't know if he is the author of some of the plugins you mention.

He is.

So you could retrieve where he was asking for plugins priorities and vote for those you need?

[BJ]

Hi Leo,
I am currently moving to tw5 from tw2 and use the tiddlersbar plug, so will work on getting the equivalent functionally in tw5 some time in the next couple of weeks.

re the right sidebar size: this can be set as a percentage - story right 80% story width 80% tiddler width 100%

cheers

BJ

[Mik McAllister]

On Monday, October 6, 2014 6:56:20 AM UTC-7, BJ wrote:

re the right sidebar size: this can be set as a percentage - story right 80% story width 80% tiddler width 100%

Thank you for this, I was wondering about that. Just one of several questions I came in here to look for answers.

[MGT]

BJ, did you ever get around to implementing the tiddlerbar plugin in TW5?

Cheers,

Mark

[BJ]

Nope, have a look here

http://tongerner.tiddlyspot.com/

cheers

BJ

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[prog...@assays.tv]

WOW. That's a brilliant design!

[Mat]

BJ, isn't your StoryTopTabs equivalent to tiddlersbar?

<:-)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El sábado, 28 de mayo de 2016, 0:41:30 (UTC+2), Mat escribió:

BJ, isn't your StoryTopTabs equivalent to tiddlersbar?

<:-)

Seriously? I can't belive this is happening to me!! After so much time using tiddlywiki and lying around this forum I'm still finding awesome plugins I didn't heard about!!! The worst thing is that it does not sound like anything new (not the plugin nor the situation)

[BJ]

oops! maybe I am writing too many plugins!

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Never say hat!

[Danielo Rodríguez]

And never say that you are writing too many plugins neither!