stickydesktop

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MobileLibrary

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Jan 9, 2011, 10:17:46 AM1/9/11
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I (kind of) proudly present the stickydesktop:
http://stickydesktop.tiddlyspace.com/
not really tested, only in my own firefox & IE8 (where it horribly
fails).
many thanks to all you developers out there!
any comments welcome,
mitchke

(cross-posted in tiddlyweb group)

Måns

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Jan 9, 2011, 10:55:45 AM1/9/11
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Hi Mitchke

> I (kind of) proudly present the stickydesktop:http://stickydesktop.tiddlyspace.com/
> not really tested, only in my own firefox & IE8 (where it horribly fails).

Congratulations! Beautiful work!
You *should* be proud - its a challenge to make TiddlyDesktop work
with saveToWeb capabilities, and you even made it into a very
beautiful and (simple yet) handy tool. I really like having a "full"
TiddlyWiki in the background.
Thank you for sharing it!

I've tested it in Chrome - and it shines :-)

Small issues for now:
When clicking add new sticky (which ought to be hidden in read-only
mode?) the edittemplate sometimes is hidden by other stickies...
Could you assign it with a z-value assuring visibility?
I find myself trying to drag windows, which cannot be dragged untill
you make a "jump" to them... is it intentional? - maybe it could be!:
...."To edit position of an already opened sticky (defaulttiddlers)
please click here..."... or there :-)

Request: Could you provide a TiddlySpot site as well (without all the
TiddlySpace plugins) please..

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

MobileLibrary

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Jan 9, 2011, 11:24:47 AM1/9/11
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thanks Måns

> I've tested it in Chrome - and it shines :-)
>
good to know!

> Small issues for now:
> When clicking add new sticky (which ought to be hidden in read-only
> mode?) the edittemplate sometimes is hidden by other stickies...
> Could you assign it with a z-value assuring visibility?
i'll try but then i'd have to reconsider the z values for the
backstage too. What you can do is make a new sticky, cancel, then move
it and re-edit. Should I hide it? Can you save to the space now?

> I find myself trying to drag windows, which cannot be dragged untill
> you make a "jump" to them... is it intentional? - maybe it could be!:
> ...."To edit position of an already opened sticky (defaulttiddlers)
> please click here..."... or there :-)

this is one of the bugs i shortly describe in the 'desktop in
tiddlyspace'. Every action that has to do with saving a tiddler,
saving the wiki or loading it from the __tiddlyDesktopLayout (i.e. the
startupstate) makes the tiddlers in view inactive. You can remedy this
by either editing/canceling the tiddler you want to move or resize, or
click 'restoreLayout' to start anew. Or, as you found out ;-) jumping
to that tiddler. The bad thing in this case is that tiddlyspace saves
automatically so after each edit you're back in the same situation.
>
> Request: Could you provide a TiddlySpot site as well (without all the
> TiddlySpace plugins) please..

be careful it's not exactly the same, i made some edits to the
'kladblok'theme and the stickynotetheme to make it work in
tiddlyspace
(see http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlyweb/browse_thread/thread/5a5ae243bedf4a74/1f8ca526ba94df37#1f8ca526ba94df37)
but here goes
http://www.mobilelibrary.nl/twdesktop/stickydesktop.html
you'd have to get the pics from the space, though
>
> Cheers Måns Mårtensson

thanks for your comments!

Måns

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Jan 9, 2011, 1:10:00 PM1/9/11
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Hi Mitchke

> i'll try but then i'd have to reconsider the z values for the
> backstage too. What you can do is make a new sticky, cancel, then move
> it and re-edit. Should I hide it? Can you save to the space now?

In the stylesheet you can set backstage z-index to whatever you like:
#backstage {z-index:2000;}
..Hide?... No I can't save the [[__tiddlyDesktopLayout]] tiddler,
unless I create a new tiddler and overwrite it...

> this is one of the bugs i shortly describe in the 'desktop in
> tiddlyspace'. Every action that has to do with saving a tiddler,
> saving the wiki or loading it from the __tiddlyDesktopLayout (i.e. the
> startupstate) makes the tiddlers in view inactive. You can remedy this
> by either editing/canceling the tiddler you want to move or resize, or
> click 'restoreLayout' to start anew. Or, as you found out ;-) jumping
> to that tiddler. The bad thing in this case is that tiddlyspace saves
> automatically so after each edit you're back in the same situation.

You can swith autosaving off:
config.options.chkAutoSave = false;

Maybe Fnd has a solution for adding an autosave routine to the "save
layout-command"??
He gave me a few hints a while back -
https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlyweb/browse_thread/thread/15e32843f8b92c27/6801b764591180a3
I had to add "store.resumeNotifications(); " to the script and add the
missing TiddlySpace specific fields to the save routine...
Jon seems to be on to sth: https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlyweb/browse_thread/thread/5a5ae243bedf4a74

> > Request: Could you provide a TiddlySpot site as well (without all the
> > TiddlySpace plugins) please..
>
> be careful it's not exactly the same, i made some edits to the 'kladblok'theme and the stickynotetheme to make it work in tiddlyspace
> (seehttp://groups.google.com/group/tiddlyweb/browse_thread/thread/5a5ae24...)
> but here goes http://www.mobilelibrary.nl/twdesktop/stickydesktop.html
> you'd have to get the pics from the space, though

Thanks a lot!! It seems as if there's no problem when dragging
tiddlers around, from the start, when opening that version?!
The images: bg_pattern_dot.gif, btn_resize.png, white_gradient.png
should be be placed where? - to work with the local document?
The first image: bg_pattern_dot.gif, can't be downloaded from the
space (correction: I can't )

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

Måns

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Jan 9, 2011, 1:21:12 PM1/9/11
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Hi again

> > Should I hide it? ....
> ..Hide?...

Now I know what you meant...
I guess it's allright to have an option to try the add-stickynote
option out, even if you can't save it, even if its misleading...

You *could* hide it and add a "Try it out- button" as I did here (look
in the mainmenu to the right):
http://flytbar6.tiddlyspace.com/
or You could use Eric's version - I have implemented here:
http://hu5.tiddlyspace.com/ - click the *"redigér"-checkbox at the top
of the page (*"edit" in Danish)..

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

MobileLibrary

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Jan 9, 2011, 1:53:27 PM1/9/11
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hi Måns
> In the stylesheet you can set backstage z-index to whatever you like:
> #backstage {z-index:2000;}
yep i know have a look at the KladBloktheme, I just didn't want to
fiddle with the details now

> You can swith autosaving off:
> config.options.chkAutoSave = false;

aha!

> Maybe Fnd has a solution for adding an autosave routine to the "save
> layout-command"??
> He gave me a few hints a while back -https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlyweb/browse_thread/thread/15e328...
> I had to add "store.resumeNotifications(); " to the script and add the
> missing TiddlySpace specific fields to the save routine...
> Jon seems to be on to sth:https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlyweb/browse_thread/thread/5a5ae2...
thanks, i'll have a look. Jon is helping me out in rewriting the
saveLayout macro so that it will work with TiddlySpace, at least, i
hope so...

>It seems as if there's no problem when dragging
> tiddlers around, from the start, when opening that version?!

No, it's only the tiddlyspace that comes into conflict with it. Same
goes for IE users, it displays much better as a 'normal' tiddlywiki.

> The images: bg_pattern_dot.gif, btn_resize.png, white_gradient.png
> should be be placed where? - to work with the local document?
at the root, same dir

> The first image: bg_pattern_dot.gif, can't be downloaded from the
> space (correction: I can't )
try http://www.mobilelibrary.nl/twdesktop/bg_pattern_dot.gif

cheers, mitchke

MobileLibrary

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Jan 9, 2011, 2:20:54 PM1/9/11
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by the way, if you use the standard tiddlywikiversion, i'd recommend
the BackstageSidebarPlugin
get it here:
http://jnthnlstr.googlepages.com/BackstageSidebarPlugin.html

Måns

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Jan 9, 2011, 2:55:08 PM1/9/11
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Hi again

> >try http://www.mobilelibrary.nl/twdesktop/bg_pattern_dot.gif

Thanks..

> by the way, if you use the standard tiddlywikiversion, i'd recommend
> the BackstageSidebarPlugin
> get it here:http://jnthnlstr.googlepages.com/BackstageSidebarPlugin.html

Thanks again :-)

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

passingby

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Jan 10, 2011, 2:16:10 AM1/10/11
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Hi,
This application is wonderful.
I experienced an issue. When I hover mouse over a tiddler is changes
into four-pronged pointer as it should, but when I try and click and
drag it it does not drag the tiddler. Instead it keeps on selecting
the title text. But when I once double click the tiddler and open it
in non-editable-edit mode and then come back from it (by clicking
Done), the dragging issue goes away on that particular tiddler. I
tried this with all tiddler and it is same.

I am on a Vaio Laptop, and on FF 3.6.13, windows 7 Home.

On Jan 10, 12:55 am, Måns <humam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi again
>
> > >tryhttp://www.mobilelibrary.nl/twdesktop/bg_pattern_dot.gif

MobileLibrary

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Jan 10, 2011, 3:59:19 AM1/10/11
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> This application is wonderful.

thanks!
> I experienced an issue. When I hover mouse over a tiddler is changes
> into four-pronged pointer as it should, but when I try and click and
> drag it it does not drag the tiddler. Instead it keeps on selecting
> the title text. But when I once double click the tiddler and open it
> in non-editable-edit mode and then come back from it (by clicking
> Done), the dragging issue goes away on that particular tiddler. I
> tried this with all tiddler and it is same.

i know, see the third post: "this is one of the bugs i shortly
describe in the 'desktop in
tiddlyspace'. Every action that has to do with saving a tiddler,
saving the wiki or loading it from the __tiddlyDesktopLayout (i.e. the
startupstate) makes the tiddlers in view inactive. You can remedy this
by either editing/canceling the tiddler you want to move or resize, or
click 'restoreLayout' to start anew. Or, as you found out ;-) jumping
to that tiddler."

tiddlydesktop has been written a long time ago, and has not been
maintained to keep up with TWdevelopment. So especially in tiddlyspace
some weird behaviour happens...
I've been wishing for a simple to use, fast and reliable 'endless
desktop' version for TW for a long time, so this is just to show why.
Cecily is great, but has its drawbacks when you want to use it as more
than just a presentation layer for your tiddlers (ie editing them, or
viewing larger tiddlers). Erics MoveablePanels requires too much
keyboard handling for my taste/use case, and a lot of fiddling with
the css and settings, plus the move/drag is not 'slow' enough - before
you know it you're miles away from where you started dragging a
tiddler. I still hope some developer will take up this challenge...

have fun,
m

Eric Shulman

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Jan 10, 2011, 6:34:52 AM1/10/11
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> Erics MoveablePanels requires too much
> keyboard handling for my taste/use case, and a lot of fiddling with
> the css and settings, plus the move/drag is not 'slow' enough - before
> you know it you're miles away from where you started dragging a
> tiddler.

Can you provide some specific details about the issues you've
mentioned? I'd really like to know what problems you are having so I
can improve the plugin behavior and better support your use case and
personal preferences.

thanks,
-e

Ref:
http://www.TiddlyTools.com/#MoveablePanelPlugin
http://www.TiddlyTools.com/#MoveablePanelPluginInfo
http://www.TiddlyTools.com/#PanelManagerPlugin
http://www.TiddlyTools.com/#PanelManagerPluginInfo
http://www.TiddlyTools.com/quickstart/moveable.html


MobileLibrary

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Jan 10, 2011, 8:08:12 AM1/10/11
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Hi Eric!
well, difficult to explain... I've experienced the issues with moving
the panels since you published this great plugin (I use it for 2 of my
sites). First of all: dragging gets slow when done over http, from //
file it's much smoother. In the original viewport dragging is fine,
but when i move the tiddler to the bottom, or especially to the right,
the screen starts giving a 'flickering' effect and it seems the
dragging speeds up greatly. That's what i meant when saying i'm off
into Tiddlyspace in no time..
Further, even over //file, after dragging for some seconds the tiddler
starts lagging behind the cursor, view freezes for a very short time
and tiddler is positioned somewhere in space. I then have to 'take it
up' again to continue dragging it where i want it. I've noticed this
on many different computers. I mostly use Firefox, but IE or chrome as
well.
Basically, the TDesktop has the 'flickering' issue as well, but it
seems to be faster, i.e. when moving the tiddlers they don't 'freeze'
as easily. Try grabbing a tiddler in Tdesktop and move it around in
circles within the existing viewport, for me it moves much smoother
than the MPequivalent, and it doesn't freeze.
What your plugin does which the Tdesktop doesn't, unfortunately, is
smoothly 'move out' a tiddler from the viewport. in the desktop I have
to move it out, then adjust the viewport, then move it out etc ad
infinitum.

About my usecase: i normally use a slate pc, penenabled, so that's
also a reason why many of your plugins lose some functionality for me
- i have all the mouse functionalities, gesture commands, and could
use the popup keyboard but shift-click or alt-click don't really work,
i.e, its a hassle to use every time. For instance: having dubbleclick
or maybe even rightclick the background of MP pop up the panel manager
would be much better for me then alt-click... And why not just
click&hold to resize? for me it wouldn't be a problem if only grabbing
the tiddler header would move it. I know, having no keyboard used to
be a strange thing, but now apple got into the game things change. I'm
not an apple fan but i'd be very happy if developers started making
more and more pen/gesture friendly apps...

Hope this was helpful? if not, please tell me! and please keep in
mind, i do appreciate your work enormously (i'm not sure my wording is
not too dutch / lacking in finesse)
ciao,
m

Måns

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Jan 10, 2011, 5:09:17 PM1/10/11
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Hi Mitchke

> Request: Could you provide a TiddlySpot site as well (without all the
> TiddlySpace plugins) please..

I've put up a TiddlySpot site version of StickyDesktop (with embedded
images (data:base64))
Here: http://stickyd.tiddlyspot.com/

I uploaded it to make a proof of concept regarding:
> You *could* hide it and add a "Try it out- button" ...
> or You could use Eric's version - ...

If you want be in charge of it, I can mail the password?

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

MobileLibrary

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Jan 11, 2011, 3:02:40 AM1/11/11
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Nice Mans!
and no, it's fine, i don't need to be in charge...
I put it up at tiddlyspace for others to enjoy, so go ahead ;-)
ciao,
m

MobileLibrary

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Jan 11, 2011, 3:12:46 AM1/11/11
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BTW, i'm happy to announce that with Jon's help, the layout problem
has been solved! Clicking 'saveLayout' maps to the tiddler
_tiddlyDesktopLayout, saving your space now also saves that tiddler.
Slight bug: if you open a saved layout and add one tiddler, without
moving/activating the rest, then save that layout, the desktop will
regard those 'inactive' tiddlers as positioned in their default
location, so they will open up stacked from their start-position.
Which means, if you want to save a layout, you will have to manually
move all tiddler to the desired location, then click saveLayout..
(hope that was clear enough, just try it out..)
m.
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