Announcing the TiddlyWiki Community Links Aggregator

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Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 1:00:23 PM3/21/21
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One of the obstacles we face as a community is that we don’t have a good place for us to curate and share bookmarks to useful resources. Dave Gifford has shown what's possible with his ToolMap, an invaluable community resource. But it’s a huge challenge for any one person to keep an undertaking like that up to date, let alone complete.

So, I’m pleased to announce TiddlyWikiLinks, a community links aggregator that allows us to collectively curate bookmarks:


The way it works is that multiple contributing editors each maintain their own TiddlyWiki containing their bookmarks. These wikis are registered with the system on GitHub, and then at intervals a script retrieves all the links and aggregates them together into a new wiki.

The above links are to a static rendering to help Google find things, but the information is also available in TiddlyWiki format:


It’s easy to set up to be a contributing editor.  The main requirement is that bookmarks be kept as tiddlers tagged "$:/tags/Link" with an “url” field containing the URL. So, for example, I’m “jermolene”, and all my links are to be found at:


My bookmarking wiki is here:


If enough people volunteer to be contributing editors, we can spread the workload and make something much more valuable than any of us could do individually. I’d be happy if we had a handful of contributing link editors making high quality bookmarks, but I think this system could be scaled to at least a few hundred.

If you’re interested, please reply here with the URL of your bookmarking wiki and your choice of username.

As ever, there’s a lot to do on the development side to take this forward:

* Improving the styling (consider the current colour scheme and styling to be a placeholder!)
* Adding JavaScript-based interactivity (particularly search)
* Adding support for multiple languages
* Adding an RSS/Atom feed

The development has required setting up another GitHub organisation in order to get another GitHub Pages site:


(For those with long memories, this is, of course, a variation of the "TWederation" archiecture we have discussed as a community for a long time).

I’ve been able to put this together in a few days thanks to all that I’ve learned on my recent client projects. My personal goal for 2021 remains to get a Community Plugin Library up and running for TiddlyWiki. The link aggregator is a simpler proposition that should give us some valuable experience for that initiative.

Questions and thoughts welcome,

Best wishes

Jeremy.

Saq Imtiaz

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Mar 21, 2021, 1:30:17 PM3/21/21
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Excellent, happy to see that you found the time to get this up and running Jeremy! Thank you.
I'll dive into the details as soon as I have some time to spare.

Regards,
Saq

Mohammad Rahmani

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Mar 21, 2021, 2:01:38 PM3/21/21
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Hi Jeremy!

This is an exciting news!



Best wishes
Mohammad


On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 8:30 PM Jeremy Ruston <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:
One of the obstacles we face as a community is that we don’t have a good place for us to curate and share bookmarks to useful resources. Dave Gifford has shown what's possible with his ToolMap, an invaluable community resource. But it’s a huge challenge for any one person to keep an undertaking like that up to date, let alone complete.

So, I’m pleased to announce TiddlyWikiLinks, a community links aggregator that allows us to collectively curate bookmarks:


The way it works is that multiple contributing editors each maintain their own TiddlyWiki containing their bookmarks. These wikis are registered with the system on GitHub, and then at intervals a script retrieves all the links and aggregates them together into a new wiki.

The above links are to a static rendering to help Google find things, but the information is also available in TiddlyWiki format:


It’s easy to set up to be a contributing editor.  The main requirement is that bookmarks be kept as tiddlers tagged "$:/tags/Link" with an “url” field containing the URL. So, for example, I’m “jermolene”, and all my links are to be found at:



Does this mean: I can set up a tiddler in one of my online wikis (e.g tag with $:/tags/Link and create a url field with address to my wiki say commander)?



 

My bookmarking wiki is here:


If enough people volunteer to be contributing editors, we can spread the workload and make something much more valuable than any of us could do individually. I’d be happy if we had a handful of contributing link editors making high quality bookmarks, but I think this system could be scaled to at least a few hundred.

If you’re interested, please reply here with the URL of your bookmarking wiki and your choice of username.

As ever, there’s a lot to do on the development side to take this forward:

* Improving the styling (consider the current colour scheme and styling to be a placeholder!)
* Adding JavaScript-based interactivity (particularly search)
* Adding support for multiple languages
* Adding an RSS/Atom feed

The development has required setting up another GitHub organisation in order to get another GitHub Pages site:


(For those with long memories, this is, of course, a variation of the "TWederation" archiecture we have discussed as a community for a long time).

I’ve been able to put this together in a few days thanks to all that I’ve learned on my recent client projects. My personal goal for 2021 remains to get a Community Plugin Library up and running for TiddlyWiki. The link aggregator is a simpler proposition that should give us some valuable experience for that initiative.

Questions and thoughts welcome,

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 2:05:40 PM3/21/21
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Does this mean: I can set up a tiddler in one of my online wikis (e.g tag with $:/tags/Link and create a url field with address to my wiki say commander)?

Yes, that's right. Ideally, the wiki shouldn't have too much extraneous stuff apart from the links because it will be pulled by the system multiple times per day.

Best wishes

Jeremy



Mohammad Rahmani

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Mar 21, 2021, 2:16:13 PM3/21/21
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Thanks Jeremy!

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 9:35 PM Jeremy Ruston <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does this mean: I can set up a tiddler in one of my online wikis (e.g tag with $:/tags/Link and create a url field with address to my wiki say commander)?

Yes, that's right. Ideally, the wiki shouldn't have too much extraneous stuff apart from the links because it will be pulled by the system multiple times per day.

So, your recommendation is: 

- setup a dedicated TW on GitHub or Tiddlyhost or any host accessible from the net
- create a tiddler per resource with tag: $:/tags/Link and a field called url: "address to resource"

More questions:
Do I need to add description on tiddler body? 

 

Best wishes

Jeremy



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Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 2:26:18 PM3/21/21
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So, your recommendation is: 

- setup a dedicated TW on GitHub or Tiddlyhost or any host accessible from the net
- create a tiddler per resource with tag: $:/tags/Link and a field called url: "address to resource"

More questions:
Do I need to add description on tiddler body? 

Yes, the text of the tiddler body is the description. Ideally we should keep the descriptions pretty short, perhaps 5-10 words.

Hopefully most of this is covered in the "about" page:


Best wishes

Jeremy


 

Best wishes

Jeremy



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Mohammad Rahmani

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Mar 21, 2021, 2:33:19 PM3/21/21
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Much appreciated!



Best wishes
Mohammad


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/DBC843CD-B70B-4B96-9FC7-0E2A51D0DA11%40gmail.com.

Mohammad Rahmani

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Mar 21, 2021, 3:04:15 PM3/21/21
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Hi Jeremy,
 I followed the instructions and sent the resource url here: https://kookma.github.io/TW-Resources/
 I am not sure if registering the site in sites.json is enough or one needs to explicitly notify you by replying here!

Best wishes
Mohammad


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Mat

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Mar 21, 2021, 3:09:43 PM3/21/21
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Well, it should come as no surprise what I think of this:

HOOORAYYY!!!!

Thank you Jeremy! I'll sign up as soon as I figure out a good wiki for it.
Two notes:

1) The links at TiddlyWikiLinks currently don't seem to work. E.g clicking on federatial.com doesn't lead to that site.
2) There's something about Motovun Jack... and I cracked it ;-)

<:-)

On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 6:00:23 PM UTC+1 Jeremy Ruston wrote:

Joshua Fontany

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Mar 21, 2021, 3:17:16 PM3/21/21
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This is a FANTASTIC idea. Bravo. Will be digesting alongside the Tiddlywiki-on-Fission work being done.

Are we starting to approach a 'standard' "Link Tiddler" format? That's also cool to see, as I intend to have a few different wikis to curate links for various topics. Setting one up for Tiddlywiki-focused bookmarks only will be easy. :)

Best,
Joshua Fontany

Mark S.

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Mar 21, 2021, 3:34:47 PM3/21/21
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It seems like a  first step would be to convert the community resources into links. A second step might be to convert TiddlyWiki Toolmap into links.

What happens if two people share the same link?

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 3:44:59 PM3/21/21
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Hi Mohammad

 I followed the instructions and sent the resource url here: https://kookma.github.io/TW-Resources/
 I am not sure if registering the site in sites.json is enough or one needs to explicitly notify you by replying here!

If you create a PR then I'll get a notification from GitHub, otherwise, yes people should reply here with their details.

Best wishes

Jeremy


Best wishes
Mohammad


<PastedGraphic-1.png>

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Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 3:46:27 PM3/21/21
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Hi Mat
Well, it should come as no surprise what I think of this:

HOOORAYYY!!!!

Thank you Jeremy! I'll sign up as soon as I figure out a good wiki for it.

Great. You can always change your wiki URL later.

1) The links at TiddlyWikiLinks currently don't seem to work. E.g clicking on federatial.com doesn't lead to that site.

Clicking on the federatial.com link will take you to the page about that link. To visit the link itself you need to click on the "open in new window" icon.

2) There's something about Motovun Jack... and I cracked it ;-)

Tell us more!

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Mohammad Rahmani

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Mar 21, 2021, 3:47:01 PM3/21/21
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Many thanks Jeremy!

I have already created a PR.

I hope these questions and answers help other contributors!


Best wishes
Mohammad


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/23B50035-FF40-47B6-9EFA-B6131FC1EC1E%40gmail.com.

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 3:49:31 PM3/21/21
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This is a FANTASTIC idea. Bravo. Will be digesting alongside the Tiddlywiki-on-Fission work being done.


Are we starting to approach a 'standard' "Link Tiddler" format? That's also cool to see, as I intend to have a few different wikis to curate links for various topics. Setting one up for Tiddlywiki-focused bookmarks only will be easy. :)

I guess it's now a de facto standard; this is the format that tiddlywiki.com already uses. I haven't added tiddlywiki.com as a source because once we've got this up and running I think we should remove the community links from the main site (or have the main site take a summary of the links from links.tiddlywiki.com).

A bookmarklet for adding links to ones bookmarking wiki would be handy.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 3:54:56 PM3/21/21
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It seems like a  first step would be to convert the community resources into links. A second step might be to convert TiddlyWiki Toolmap into links.

Yes to both.

One of the reasons I didn't add tiddlywiki.com as a source is because the tiddlers there have a bunch of other tags that aren't meaningful in this context. So it would be great if anyone would like to clean them up and put them in a wiki somewhere.

In the case of the Toolmap, it might well be a community effort to get everything moved across in a useful way. As I understand it, links in the toolmap are filed under a single set of hierarchical categories, while the links aggregator allows for multiple topics to be assigned to each link.

What happens if two people share the same link?

That's a good thing! This site is modelled on an ancient "Web 2.0" site called "del.icio.us" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delicious_(website) ), where the idea is that multiple people bookmarking a particular link is taken as a sign of the popularity of that link. So, bookmarking a site is a vote of confidence.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 4:27:45 PM3/21/21
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Mohammad's links are live here:


Best wishes

Jeremy


On 21 Mar 2021, at 19:46, Mohammad Rahmani <mohammad...@gmail.com> wrote:



Mat

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Mar 21, 2021, 4:27:49 PM3/21/21
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Jeremy wrote:
 
Clicking on the federatial.com link will take you to the page about that link. To visit the link itself you need to click on the "open in new window" icon.

Aha. IMO, the string "https://federation.com" definitely makes me think it is, well, a link to that site. Besides, what's the point in having that link leads to itself...? But OK, maybe it's too early to bring up things like this.
 
2) There's something about Motovun Jack... and I cracked it ;-)
Tell us more!

Motovun Jack representing TW and that lace representing links - TiddlyWikiLinks! :-D

<:-) 

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 4:35:53 PM3/21/21
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Hi Mat

Aha. IMO, the string "https://federation.com" definitely makes me think it is, well, a link to that site. Besides, what's the point in having that link leads to itself...? But OK, maybe it's too early to bring up things like this.

Yes indeed, it's not ideal. I did try it the other way, where the link goes to the site, and an "info" icon goes to the page about the site. But I found that that meant that one kept accidentally visiting sites when trying to just click around exploring. I'm sure there's a better solution, given a bit more thought.

2) There's something about Motovun Jack... and I cracked it ;-)
Tell us more!

Motovun Jack representing TW and that lace representing links - TiddlyWikiLinks! :-

That's right, a chain seemed the clearest icon for links, and the most plausible way for Jack to wear a chain is as jewellery around his neck...

Best wishes

Jeremy

D

<:-) 

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Saq Imtiaz

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Mar 21, 2021, 4:36:48 PM3/21/21
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This is the content from the TiddlyWiki toolmap from about 6 months ago, where each entry is in a separate tiddler:

We might be able to automate extracting and putting the links in the correct field, renaming and tagging the tiddlers.
Each entry should ideally still be manually reviewed for accuracy and completeness though.
On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 6:00:23 PM UTC+1 Jeremy Ruston wrote:

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 4:39:04 PM3/21/21
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Just to add that the aggregator is currently set to run every 17 minutes, so once you're registered like Mohammad you can keep adding links and watch them appear on the site very shortly afterwards without any intervention from me.

Best wishes


On 21 Mar 2021, at 20:36, Saq Imtiaz <saq.i...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is the content from the TiddlyWiki toolmap from about 6 months ago, where each entry is in a separate tiddler:
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Mat

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Mar 21, 2021, 5:34:26 PM3/21/21
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So no misunderstanding:

My wiki with "link tiddlers" can really be any wiki that contains other non-link stuff because only the tiddlers tagged $:/tags/Link are fetched by the script, right?

<:-)

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 21, 2021, 5:37:15 PM3/21/21
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So no misunderstanding:

My wiki with "link tiddlers" can really be any wiki that contains other non-link stuff because only the tiddlers tagged $:/tags/Link are fetched by the script, right?

That's correct, but another consideration is that the wiki will be fetched very frequently, so it's polite to make it as small as possible.

I will add stats for the size of the wikis that are fetched so we could identify wikis that are carrying an unreasonable overhead, but for the moment we probably don't need to worry about it too much.

The most important consideration is probably making your workflow as smooth as possible so that you've got every incentive to keep posting the links...

Best wishes

Jeremy

Mat

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Mar 21, 2021, 6:24:27 PM3/21/21
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Jeremy Ruston wrote:
[...] polite to make it as small as possible.
[...] your workflow as smooth as possible so that you've got every incentive to keep posting the links...

Definitely a disconnect there.
I've previously experimented with savers that save to two places, using different saving filters. So I use my everyday wiki and click save, seemingly as normal. In reality, a copy is saved to another instance but the save filter filters out everything but the tiddlers tagged $:/tags/Link. The aggregator fetches from this wiki only. (BTW, such a multi-saver is pretty cool in itself; you could have one central wiki to publish niche content to multiple niche wikis.)

BTW, fellow tiddleur Erwan deserves some cred for this concept. More so than the mention of TWederation. He designed a "community plugin aggregator" many suns ago. 

<:-)

 

clutterstack

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Mar 21, 2021, 9:52:24 PM3/21/21
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I'm glad to see this. There will be lots to learn from the experience. I've created a tiddlyhost site for this and made a pull request. I see I'm already not sticking to the rules with my 14-word link description.

Sorry if I missed something about this, but it looks as if automatic linking of CamelCase is causing some dead links (for example TiddlyWiki in the example tiddlers).

Best wishes,
Chris

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 22, 2021, 4:56:32 AM3/22/21
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Sorry if I missed something about this, but it looks as if automatic linking of CamelCase is causing some dead links (for example TiddlyWiki in the example tiddlers).

Ouch, thank you, I’ve made an issue here:


Many thanks,

Jeremy


Best wishes,
Chris
On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 6:24:27 PM UTC-4 Mat wrote:
Jeremy Ruston wrote:
[...] polite to make it as small as possible.
[...] your workflow as smooth as possible so that you've got every incentive to keep posting the links...

Definitely a disconnect there.
I've previously experimented with savers that save to two places, using different saving filters. So I use my everyday wiki and click save, seemingly as normal. In reality, a copy is saved to another instance but the save filter filters out everything but the tiddlers tagged $:/tags/Link. The aggregator fetches from this wiki only. (BTW, such a multi-saver is pretty cool in itself; you could have one central wiki to publish niche content to multiple niche wikis.)

BTW, fellow tiddleur Erwan deserves some cred for this concept. More so than the mention of TWederation. He designed a "community plugin aggregator" many suns ago. 

<:-)

 

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Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 22, 2021, 8:24:58 AM3/22/21
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Thank you to all the new contributors — we’re now up to 5. The system will work best when we’re up to at least a few dozen regular contributors. At that point, the number of people who have bookmarked a site can be taken as a sign of popularity.

Part of that process is for contributing editors to be able to browse links.tiddlywiki.com and easily transfer interesting links to their own wiki. I’ve added a button next to each individual link that downloads a .tid file containing just that link. In the future it would be nice to be able to download, say, all the new links of a particular day in one operation.


Also, it would be truly wonderful if people were able to invest a bit of time in adding links from recent posts in the groups, and to make a habit of adding new links as they are posted.

Best wishes,

Jeremy.

PMario

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Mar 22, 2021, 9:01:04 AM3/22/21
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Jeremy,

Would it be possible to create a file, that doesn't contain the TW core. ... My links file would be about 300k instead of 2.5MByte.
Probably even less, if I would use a different template, to create the output file.
OR
Would it be possible to create a community-links.json file that you can fetch. ... It would be several kByte.

At the moment I want to automatically create the links file if I create a new index file of wikilabs page.

-mario

Mark S.

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Mar 22, 2021, 9:29:10 AM3/22/21
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Longer URL's overflow:


marxsal-s Links- links-tiddlywiki-com — TiddlyWiki community links 3-22-2021 6-27-36 AM.png

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 22, 2021, 10:07:23 AM3/22/21
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Hi Mario

Would it be possible to create a file, that doesn't contain the TW core. ... My links file would be about 300k instead of 2.5MByte.

Yes, you can use a modified version of the main HTML template that omits all the JS to create an "inert" TiddlyWiki which will still be read perfectly happily by the scraper.

Having said that, probably the best performance improvement we can make would be for the scraper to record the last modified date of each scan, and thus be able to pass an If-Modified-Since header to subsequent requests to avoid re-downloading data that hasn't changed.

Probably even less, if I would use a different template, to create the output file.
OR
Would it be possible to create a community-links.json file that you can fetch. ... It would be several kByte.

We could certainly update the scraper to optionally accept JSON.

But, it's quite nice that the originating sites are human readable because it gives users of links.tiddlywiki.com the opportunity to get to know the contributors better.

Best wishes

Jeremy

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 22, 2021, 10:12:59 AM3/22/21
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Thanks Mark.

The fact that URLs come in all shapes and sizes does make things awkward, which is probably why few mainstream apps display links in full these days (eg Twitter, Chrome).

The scraper does some normalization of the link URLs, I'll look at possibly extending it to record the domain name part of the link separately so that we can use that in certain places in the UI instead of the full link. Or perhaps eliding most of the link with ellipsis, as Twitter does. And as a fallback, I'll make sure the CSS prefers breaking the URLs to overflowing them.

Best wishes

Jeremy

On 22 Mar 2021, at 13:29, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


Longer URL's overflow:


<marxsal-s Links- links-tiddlywiki-com — TiddlyWiki community links 3-22-2021 6-27-36 AM.png>


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David Gifford

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Mar 22, 2021, 11:57:27 AM3/22/21
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1. Yay! I was wondering when the TW community would get round to this. It really needed your initiative, Jeremy. Thanks! It will be nice when this can take the place of the Toolmap.

2. Correction: I add the links in TiddlyWiki toolmap to as many categories as I think are appropriate, and ofte tell the creators to let me know if they belong in additional categories. I recommend that people do a search in the Toolmap to see how many categories a plugin has already. That might give them more ideas for tags in the TWCLA.

3. The 5-10 word limit you mentioned for descriptions is restrictive. Most of the descriptions in the toolmap have the advantage that I have taken them right from the plugin demo sites themselves. I try to keep them to a line or two. People might consider the descriptions there when adding their links.

4. Yes, I will add a bunch of links myself! But this week I have a lot on my plate.

5. Could you add mine? Username: giffmex site URL: https://giffmex.org/gifts/twcla.html. I added one link for now to make sure I did it right.

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 22, 2021, 12:03:51 PM3/22/21
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Hi Dave

Great, I’ve added your site:


You should add a small square avatar image called $:/favicon.ico to make things look right (see below).

I made the initial guideline 5-10 words because I think shorter descriptions work best, but I agree that we may want to increase the guideline.

Best wishes

Jeremy.
 



David Gifford

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Mar 22, 2021, 12:29:09 PM3/22/21
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Thanks, Jeremy! Hmmm... I did add the favicon tiddler, but maybe it was an svg rather than an ico file. Will fix this in a moment.

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 22, 2021, 12:32:33 PM3/22/21
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Hi Dave

Apologies, you do indeed have a $:favicon.ico tiddler. It’s actually missing a type field, so it will be interpreted as wikitext. I haven’t tested things with an SVG favicon, but it may well work if the icon is fixed.

Best wishes

Jeremy.


David Gifford

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Mar 22, 2021, 12:34:36 PM3/22/21
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Just added an ico and it shows the type, so hopefully it will be right when your system refreshes.

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 22, 2021, 12:52:50 PM3/22/21
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Thanks Dave, looks good now:


Best wishes

Jeremy

Mark S.

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Mar 22, 2021, 1:21:42 PM3/22/21
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I would like to use an SVG rather than an image. Changing the type to image/svg+xml didn't help. I'm guessing there is some tweak we have to make to the SVG ?



Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 22, 2021, 1:24:05 PM3/22/21
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Hi Mark,

Come to think of it, it's possible that SVG favicons break things at present because they're text rather than binary. I'll have a look at fixing it,

Best wishes

Jeremy

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 22, 2021, 1:25:48 PM3/22/21
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I’ve created an issue:


Best wishes

Jeremy

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Mark S.

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Mar 22, 2021, 4:58:55 PM3/22/21
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It would be handy for link management purposes if system tags (or some other tag with a designated prefix) could be ignored in processing.

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 22, 2021, 5:09:28 PM3/22/21
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Hi Mark

Good idea. Do you think it would be enough to exclude "$:/" system tags?

Best wishes

Jeremy

On 22 Mar 2021, at 20:59, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

It would be handy for link management purposes if system tags (or some other tag with a designated prefix) could be ignored in processing.

Mark S.

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Mar 22, 2021, 6:14:55 PM3/22/21
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That would work well enough, and be semi-intuitive in a TiddlyWiki sort of way.

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 23, 2021, 5:54:35 AM3/23/21
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I can confirm that SVG favicons were already working. If they’re not working for you there might be an issue with the image. Bear in mind that it needs to be a full SVG image, with the type image/svg+xml, and not an SVG fragment as with Mat’s attempt,

Best wishes

Jeremy

On 22 Mar 2021, at 17:24, Jeremy Ruston <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 23, 2021, 5:55:17 AM3/23/21
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I can confirm that SVG favicons were already working. If they’re not working for you there might be an issue with the image. Bear in mind that it needs to be a full SVG image, with the type image/svg+xml, and not an SVG fragment as with Mat’s attempt,

Apologies, I believe it was Dave, not Mat,

Best wishes

Jeremy

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 23, 2021, 5:55:42 AM3/23/21
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Hi Mark

On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:14, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

That would work well enough, and be semi-intuitive in a TiddlyWiki sort of way.

That’s now live, and I’ve added a note to the about page.

Best wishes

Jeremy

PMario

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Mar 23, 2021, 6:28:26 AM3/23/21
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On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 3:07:23 PM UTC+1 Jeremy Ruston wrote:
...
Probably even less, if I would use a different template, to create the output file.
OR
Would it be possible to create a community-links.json file that you can fetch. ... It would be several kByte.

We could certainly update the scraper to optionally accept JSON.

But, it's quite nice that the originating sites are human readable because it gives users of links.tiddlywiki.com the opportunity to get to know the contributors better.

You are right. After reading your answer, I did think about the external-core render command. That would be able to have a smaller html file and still be able to load a working TW.

Since my wikis and the link-wiki are auto-generated, that will be a nice fit.

-mario

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 23, 2021, 8:44:03 AM3/23/21
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A huge thank you to Mark who has been adding links at a prodigious rate.

I’ve added some stats to the contributors page:


Best wishes

Jeremy






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Mark S.

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Mar 23, 2021, 9:36:15 AM3/23/21
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marxsal-favicon.png

This is what my favicon looks like. Is there something wrong with the svg? Type? It doesn't show on the tab like a favicon should. Maybe it would work in the aggregator (haven't tried that yet), but it would be nice if it also worked in the browser. 

Thanks!

Mark S.

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Mar 23, 2021, 10:05:06 AM3/23/21
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On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 6:36:15 AM UTC-7 Mark S. wrote:

Maybe it would work in the aggregator (haven't tried that yet), but it would be nice if it also worked in the browser. 

It was a 17 minute experiment, but it doesn't work in the aggregator either.
 

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 23, 2021, 10:32:01 AM3/23/21
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Hi Mark

That’s not valid SVG image file, it’s just an SVG element.

Although the type is correct, it’s missing the required preamble:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.1//EN" "http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.1/DTD/svg11.dtd">

I think you’ll also need a few more attributes on the SVG element: viewBox, version, xml.

Best wishes

Jeremy


Mark S.

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Mar 23, 2021, 1:02:27 PM3/23/21
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It turns out all it wanted was the namespace:

<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"  ....

amazing how many tutorials you can look at that don't even mention namespace.

David Gifford

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Mar 23, 2021, 9:09:59 PM3/23/21
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There should be a way to report dead links. LibreNote, for example, turns up a 404. Someone is adding links without even checking them first.

Also, giffmex.org has been https:// since early 2020. If those adding links to giffmex.org could convert them from http: to https:, that would be appreciated.

dieg...@gmail.com

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Mar 23, 2021, 9:25:32 PM3/23/21
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There should also be a tag to indicate "highest supported version" or something similar if relevant (for plugins, for example) and its known.

Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 12:33:37 AM3/24/21
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Out of nearly 300 entries, less than 1% had url errors. I was hoping to do follow-ups with the w3c link validator, but it doesn't recognize the site as a document. The standard link-checker software said everything was ok, but obviously that's wrong.

I've removed the entry with a bad url.

I will stop working for now. It's VERY tedious condensing descriptions to 10 words and supplying tags. Mistakes are bound to happen. 

The last thing I need is to find people upset with my work. If requested, I can roll back existing entrees.

Mohammad Rahmani

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Mar 24, 2021, 1:05:51 AM3/24/21
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Hi Mark,
 I really appreciate your efforts! I think you should develop a small code to do the conversion from Toolmap to link aggregator! I know Saq converted Toolmaps entry to TW tiddlers sometimes ago, but I forgot the link to that Tiddlywiki!
 I know this work is tedious and like you I think the current configuration is not the best! Like you I think Jeremy shall remove the restriction on description, ...





Best wishes
Mohammad


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strikke...@gmail.com

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Mar 24, 2021, 3:24:06 AM3/24/21
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Mohammad,
Is this the link? https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/streams-tiddlytoolmap.html I do not remember the link, but I think Mark S did something similar testing notowritey.

Birthe

Mohammad Rahmani

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Mar 24, 2021, 3:48:38 AM3/24/21
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Hi Birthe,
Yes, this is the right link.
Thank you

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6bd12ed6-1f59-43c1-8736-0c6142e6e54en%40googlegroups.com.

Mat

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Mar 24, 2021, 3:50:20 AM3/24/21
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Mark - I appreciate the work you've done with this, and so will everyone who uses it in the future!

At this early stage I think it is better to pour in as much as possible (...altho the word "pour" doesn't at all reflect the effort it clearly takes) and that things are tweaked at a later stage. Obviously, all links decay, so we will need to come up with some correction system eventually. As for now, even a dead link is valuable because it still brings the information that there is supposed to be something of value there. Without the dead link we wouldn't even know that.

<:-)



Mat

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Mar 24, 2021, 4:09:53 AM3/24/21
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@Jeremy, for the short description, which presumably is the most tedious bit, it could be more flexible like so:

"Descriptions of less than 10 words will appear directly. Longer descriptions will automatically be presented inside RevealWidgtes. You can have both a longer and shorter descriptions, and people are encouraged to contribute either or both if either is missing in existing link contributions." 

BTW, I don't yet see any example where multiple people contribute the same link. But if there is one, I'm guessing (hoping) that their descriptions will all appear just below one another, for a quick overview. 

<:-)


Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 4:56:39 AM3/24/21
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Hi Mark

Please don’t worry about the dead link issue, or the http vs. https issue.

As a matter of principle, this sort of collective effort is intended to help us build a system stronger than any one of us, and tolerant of individual errors.

As a matter of practicality, the process has worked really well here: mistakes crept into the system, were bought to the attention of the author, and corrected. I suspect that just like coding, finding and fixing errors should be seen as part of the pattern of a healthy life, and not a symptom of a deeper problem.

As it happens, I do plan an improvement which I think would address both issues: to start using Puppeteer to load each link URL, check for 404s, take a screenshot, extract the page title, and to record the URL after any redirections.

It would also mean that a site like Dave’s that autoredirects from http to https would end up in the system with it’s https URL, even if users had bookmarked the HTTP one.

I’ve done something similar for the Fission edition picker (see below) which uses Puppeteer to make screenshots of the available editions.

Best wishes

Jeremy.






Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 5:01:57 AM3/24/21
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There should also be a tag to indicate "highest supported version" or something similar if relevant (for plugins, for example) and its known.

I’m hoping we’ll evolve a basic set of a couple of dozen universal tags that will adequately cover 80% of the entries, with no doubt a long tail of a hundred tags that are only used once.

We could then reify those core tags that are recognised by the system by giving them icons and colour codes so that they stand out more, and slightly de-emphasising the unrecognised tags. That would make deviations from the standard tags more visible, enabling us to correct them, or correct the guidelines we’re using.

We could also make little tools to help the contributing editors: for example, a means to highlight and edit the non-standard tags on a set of bookmarks.

Best wishes

Jeremy



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Saq Imtiaz

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Mar 24, 2021, 5:04:39 AM3/24/21
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@Birthe and @Mohammad:

This is the same content but should be a lot less resource intensive to work with:

Saq Imtiaz

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Mar 24, 2021, 5:13:22 AM3/24/21
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Hi Jeremy, 
 
As it happens, I do plan an improvement which I think would address both issues: to start using Puppeteer to load each link URL, check for 404s, take a screenshot, extract the page title, and to record the URL after any redirections.


If we extracted and saved the document title at the same time, it might be interesting to explore using that as the displayed title in the bookmarks aggregator, with the URL in a subtitle. This might be more intuitive to readers as URLs alone don't convey that much information of interest to end users.

Cheers,
Saq

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 5:17:14 AM3/24/21
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On 24 Mar 2021, at 08:09, Mat <matia...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Jeremy, for the short description, which presumably is the most tedious bit, it could be more flexible like so:

"Descriptions of less than 10 words will appear directly. Longer descriptions will automatically be presented inside RevealWidgtes. You can have both a longer and shorter descriptions, and people are encouraged to contribute either or both if either is missing in existing link contributions." 

I wonder if we might simplify things further and switch to using two fields to describe each link: a one-line heading that’s 5-10 words, and a longer, optional description that usually requires a click to reveal. That’s actually how del.icio.us modelled links.

These would map onto the “caption” and “text” fields of the links. To make it backwards compatible, if the caption field is present, the system would take it as the headline, and the text field as the description, or if the caption field is missing, the system would take the headline from the text field.

BTW, I don't yet see any example where multiple people contribute the same link. But if there is one, I'm guessing (hoping) that their descriptions will all appear just below one another, for a quick overview. 

I’ve added a number in brackets after each entry on the “links” page giving the number of times that URL has been bookmarked:


It’s not very sophisticated but one can then use the browser search feature to look for “(2” etc. to find links with multiple entries. For example:


(See below for a screenshot)

Best wishes

Jeremy



<:-)


On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 8:50:20 AM UTC+1 Mat wrote:
Mark - I appreciate the work you've done with this, and so will everyone who uses it in the future!

At this early stage I think it is better to pour in as much as possible (...altho the word "pour" doesn't at all reflect the effort it clearly takes) and that things are tweaked at a later stage. Obviously, all links decay, so we will need to come up with some correction system eventually. As for now, even a dead link is valuable because it still brings the information that there is supposed to be something of value there. Without the dead link we wouldn't even know that.

<:-)



On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 5:33:37 AM UTC+1 Mark S. wrote:
Out of nearly 300 entries, less than 1% had url errors. I was hoping to do follow-ups with the w3c link validator, but it doesn't recognize the site as a document. The standard link-checker software said everything was ok, but obviously that's wrong.

I've removed the entry with a bad url.

I will stop working for now. It's VERY tedious condensing descriptions to 10 words and supplying tags. Mistakes are bound to happen. 

The last thing I need is to find people upset with my work. If requested, I can roll back existing entrees.

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 6:25:32 PM UTC-7 dieg...@gmail.com wrote:
There should also be a tag to indicate "highest supported version" or something similar if relevant (for plugins, for example) and its known.

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 8:09:59 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:
There should be a way to report dead links. LibreNote, for example, turns up a 404. Someone is adding links without even checking them first.

Also, giffmex.org has been https:// since early 2020. If those adding links to giffmex.org could convert them from http: to https:, that would be appreciated.


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Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 5:20:06 AM3/24/21
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As it happens, I do plan an improvement which I think would address both issues: to start using Puppeteer to load each link URL, check for 404s, take a screenshot, extract the page title, and to record the URL after any redirections.


If we extracted and saved the document title at the same time, it might be interesting to explore using that as the displayed title in the bookmarks aggregator, with the URL in a subtitle. This might be more intuitive to readers as URLs alone don't convey that much information of interest to end users.

Exactly, I should have added extracting the favicon too.

The hold up is that at the moment the entire system runs from cold each time, fetching all the link wikis, and building the static site. To make the Puppeteer stuff practical, we’d have to be able to just run newly added sites through puppeteer, and retain previously recorded screenshots etc in the repo. 

The scraper is pretty dumb and simple right now. One thing we might want to look at is more ambitious existing libraries that we can use.

Best wishes

Jeremy



Cheers,
Saq

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Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 5:41:20 AM3/24/21
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Hi Mark

There is a tiny issue with the bounding box of the image cutting off the edges of the design:

PastedGraphic-9.png
PastedGraphic-10.png
marks-favicon-tweaked.svg

Mohammad Rahmani

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Mar 24, 2021, 6:19:19 AM3/24/21
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On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 1:34 PM Saq Imtiaz <saq.i...@gmail.com> wrote:
@Birthe and @Mohammad:

This is the same content but should be a lot less resource intensive to work with:

Thanks Saq! This is much suitable to create the entries for TW link aggregator.

PMario

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Mar 24, 2021, 8:51:37 AM3/24/21
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On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 10:17:14 AM UTC+1 Jeremy Ruston wrote:

I wonder if we might simplify things further and switch to using two fields to describe each link: a one-line heading that’s 5-10 words, and a longer, optional description that usually requires a click to reveal. That’s actually how del.icio.us modelled links.

These would map onto the “caption” and “text” fields of the links. To make it backwards compatible, if the caption field is present, the system would take it as the headline, and the text field as the description, or if the caption field is missing, the system would take the headline from the text field.

Please use a "subtitle" field instead of the caption field! There are several threads here in the group already, that discuss similar topics. "captions" are used to make titles short, so they fit into tabs.

Subtitles imo are between the "description" and the "title" field. descriptions may have several lines. Subtitles may have several words.

-mario

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 8:53:14 AM3/24/21
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Actually, thinking about it, perhaps there's an even more obvious option: to use the original title of the $:/tags/Link tiddler, which the scraper currently throws away.

Best wishes


On 24 Mar 2021, at 12:51, PMario <pmar...@gmail.com> wrote:


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PMario

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Mar 24, 2021, 9:05:23 AM3/24/21
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On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 1:53:14 PM UTC+1 Jeremy Ruston wrote:
Actually, thinking about it, perhaps there's an even more obvious option: to use the original title of the $:/tags/Link tiddler, which the scraper currently throws away.

My tiddler titles are "link-friendly" [1] there is no slugify needed. The disadvantage is, that linked-lists don't look good. That's why I would like to use a "subtitle" field for lists. Similar to the caption field for tabs.

So if a subtitle is there, use it - If not use the title.

-mario

[1] https://wikilabs.github.io/#new-tiddler-from-search

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 9:12:25 AM3/24/21
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Hi Mario

> My tiddler titles are "link-friendly" [1] there is no slugify needed. The disadvantage is, that linked-lists don't look good.

What do you mean by “linked-lists”? We’ll still need to slugify titles for making URLs.

> That's why I would like to use a "subtitle" field for lists. Similar to the caption field for tabs.
>
> So if a subtitle is there, use it - If not use the title.

That sounds reasonable.

Best wishes

Jeremy

Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 9:22:56 AM3/24/21
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On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 2:20:06 AM UTC-7 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
As it happens, I do plan an improvement which I think would address both issues: to start using Puppeteer to load each link URL, check for 404s, take a screenshot, extract the page title, and to record the URL after any redirections.


If we extracted and saved the document title at the same time, it might be interesting to explore using that as the displayed title in the bookmarks aggregator, with the URL in a subtitle. This might be more intuitive to readers as URLs alone don't convey that much information of interest to end users.




I've been making links (permalink) to tiddlers. The tiddler title for a particular topic may be different than the document title.  

Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 9:24:54 AM3/24/21
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I see the dangers of jumping the gun. Many of the titles I created have a unique two character identifier prepended so that I didn't accidentally overwrite existing tiddlers.

Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 9:40:13 AM3/24/21
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Saq's page is very nice, but he didn't extract the url or apply tags, so it's actually harder to use than the source MD.

My methodology. I use an advanced text editor and split the original text into fields with pipes. 
I paste the text into an "incoming" tiddler.
I've written a tiddler that will split the incoming items, apply specified tags, populate the url field, and add a unique identifier to avoid tiddler name collisions.
Then I use a dashboard tiddler to browse the new entries. This makes it easier to browse the new entries, change tags, long text, and url. I can also click on a link to check if the link is working. Often I would tweak the link to use the exact permalink. Tiddlers can then be approved or marked as a problem.

This is done in batches by sub-topics to help reduce errors. Rinse. Repeat.

Of the various steps, it is checking the link that is slowest -- having to look back and forth, and often authors "hide" the bit you want.  I checked each link for the first 218 submissions. After that I decided to mark items for review and come back and double-check links later, like when I was really bored. Of the next 50 I added, ONE had a missing url problem. 

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 9:50:53 AM3/24/21
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Hi Mark

I see the dangers of jumping the gun. Many of the titles I created have a unique two character identifier prepended so that I didn't accidentally overwrite existing tiddlers.

Indeed, some of the changes we’re discussing here perhaps would need a bulk transformation applied to existing bookmarks, but hopefully we can go a long way without breaking backwards compatibility with existing bookmark collections.

Best wishes

Jeremy

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 9:53:20 AM3/24/21
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One thing I’m noticing is that you have multiple $:/tags/Link entries pointing to the same URL. It doesn’t break the system or anything, but perhaps it would make more sense for the scraper to merge multiple entries with the same URL from the same contributor. We would merge the tags, and concatenate the descriptions. Alternately, I could make you a script that you could paste into the JS console to do that merging on your original bookmarks.

Best wishes

Jeremy

PMario

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Mar 24, 2021, 10:17:45 AM3/24/21
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Hi,

It would be nice if the "Topics" page would use some CSS eg:

column-count: 3;    /* or 4 which I used for the screenshot*/
column-rule: 1px solid #ccc;
column-gap: 2em;

community-links.gif

PMario

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Mar 24, 2021, 10:24:50 AM3/24/21
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Flexbox would be better, since it wastes less space.

display: flex;
flex-flow: row wrap;
justify-content: space-around;

community-links.gif

Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 10:29:46 AM3/24/21
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Note that some links that have the same landing page actually have different descriptions and Tags. This is usually because the page was made before permalinks were available.

Older TW's didn't have the permalink button, but did they still have permalinks? Is their some backward compatible code that could generate them?

Is there a handy filter that would detect duplicate url's without nesting?

Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 10:32:14 AM3/24/21
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Dashboard in action.
tw-resources-dashboard.png

Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 1:03:25 PM3/24/21
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I've gone through and removed or disambiguated  duplicates except for these older pages where it's not possible to permalink (AFAIK) :

Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 2:46:27 PM3/24/21
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Noticing that someone has just posted links with full length descriptions.

So ..... how seriously do we need to take this description limit? Is it likely to change?

What I've found with the links I've entered is that a lot of source descriptions contain unnecessary narrative, background, how-it-works, or how-to-use-it info. 

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 3:06:48 PM3/24/21
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It’s for us to decide collectively how we want the system to run, and we can keep changing it until it settles down into something that is useful for us.

My starting position was to try to gently encourage brevity, but not to truncate or limit the length of the descriptions.

That’s why, for example, only inline formatting is available within the descriptions. I think that’s right; these are not supposed to be mini-documents with headings and bullet points, they work better as brief descriptions.

Best wishes

Jeremy



Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 3:09:39 PM3/24/21
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Permalink seems to be available on skplugins, but the other two are indeed too old for them. And indeed are so old that we probably shouldn’t be promoting the information they contain too hard.

Best wishes

Jeremy





Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 3:31:45 PM3/24/21
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Fixed skplugins. I've added URL counting to my working dashboard.

My thought about older items is that a single link to an older item could be the starting point for someone to make something amazing. Like various television reboots that are more interesting than the original, but benefit from the starting point. 

It's good to know I don't need to stress so much about descriptions.

Which reminds me -- will there be a search engine at some point? If not, than descriptions are somewhat moot.

Thanks!

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 3:38:18 PM3/24/21
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Hi Mark

Fixed skplugins. I've added URL counting to my working dashboard.

Thanks, that's great.

My thought about older items is that a single link to an older item could be the starting point for someone to make something amazing. Like various television reboots that are more interesting than the original, but benefit from the starting point. 

Yes that's very true. Perhaps we should agree a tag for this kind of situation.

It's good to know I don't need to stress so much about descriptions.

Which reminds me -- will there be a search engine at some point? If not, than descriptions are somewhat moot.

Yes! I'll do a little JavaScript search function as soon as I get a chance, unless anyone beats me to it...

Best wishes

Jeremy

Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 4:12:50 PM3/24/21
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On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 12:38:18 PM UTC-7 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

My thought about older items is that a single link to an older item could be the starting point for someone to make something amazing. Like various television reboots that are more interesting than the original, but benefit from the starting point. 

Yes that's very true. Perhaps we should agree a tag for this kind of situation.

"Old" is pejorative. "Classic" is taken. Maybe "Vintage" ?



Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 24, 2021, 5:20:42 PM3/24/21
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"Vintage" sounds desirable nowadays! We need to communicate that this stuff is no longer usable, so maybe "Obsolete"? The description can explain why it's still worth including.

Best wishes


On 24 Mar 2021, at 20:13, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


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Mark S.

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Mar 24, 2021, 6:23:06 PM3/24/21
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I think it's still usable, it just shouldn't be a first choice. Like "Creating a simple Contacts DB" is still a great introductory explainer about using ViewTemplates. 

Not everything that is old is undesirable. I hope. "Obsolete" suggests unusable or that there is a replacement, which isn't always the case. 
I've already started using "Deprecated" for things that have an official counterpart. 

Now I'm resorting to look at the thesaurus. Maybe "Oldish" which isn't quite so strong as "old" ?

Heh. Maybe Ebay terms like "For-parts-only" .




strikke...@gmail.com

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Mar 24, 2021, 7:11:07 PM3/24/21
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Mark S,
Quite a dilemma. It is old now because it was an early contribution. Then Hopefully people will search for recent contributions.

Birthe - with thanks for all the great work, you are doing!

R²

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Mar 24, 2021, 9:06:44 PM3/24/21
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How about antiquated? Or perhaps disused, which carries very little value judgment? 

TiddlyTweeter

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Mar 25, 2021, 5:02:53 AM3/25/21
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Ciao Jeremy, 

Simple comment from a bear of small brain ...
BRILLIANT idea to use an Aggregator!

TT, x

jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
<snip>
... I’m pleased to announce TiddlyWikiLinks, a community links aggregator that allows us to collectively curate ...
<snip> 

TiddlyTweeter

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Mar 25, 2021, 5:44:18 AM3/25/21
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jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
"Vintage" sounds desirable nowadays! We need to communicate that this stuff is no longer usable, so maybe "Obsolete"? The description can explain why it's still worth including.

TBH, I'm getting CONFUSED! :-) 

Obsolete / Vintage / Oldish.  REALLY?

GIVE me aggregation of WHAT WORKS out-of-the-box WITHOUT ageism. 
That is enough already!

TT

Mark S.

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Mar 25, 2021, 9:49:28 AM3/25/21
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They all work in situ. And they all might be the basis of something rebooted. They just might not be the first choice for immediate use in a modern TW. So, how to gently convey that subtlety?

Soren Bjornstad

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Mar 25, 2021, 10:45:49 AM3/25/21
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Is it reasonable to call something deprecated if it hasn't been announced as such by the author? That's the best term I can think of, though it is a little bit on the technical side.

My concerns with the other suggestions:
  • "Obsolete" sounds like it is no longer necessary, it has been superseded, which isn't necessarily true
  • "Antiquated" seems oddly formal (plus it would seem to have the same negative feeling of "old", to whatever extent that's a problem).
  • "Vintage", as Jeremy said, has a positive connotation that doesn't seem right.
  • "Disused" is closer, but seems like it conveys something about how many people actually use it (which we don't in fact know), rather than whether you should use it.
Deprecated means it shouldn't be used if you can find another solution, and it's about whether people think you should use it, not about its raw age or how many people actually do use it. The only issue I'm thinking of right now is that it might suggest that it still works, which isn't necessarily the case.

Jeremy Ruston

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Mar 25, 2021, 11:08:06 AM3/25/21
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“Deprecate” is a verb, and so I think there would indeed need to be someone doing the deprecating for it to properly work.

The context for this is that we still get plenty of people confused that the stuff at https://tiddlytools.com/ doesn’t work with TW5. Cases like http://tw5magick.tiddlyspot.com are pretty egregious: it’s 7 years old, based on TW5 when it was in beta.

So, I think we need a really clear “danger” sign for ordinary users to make things super clear. The most important meaning that we’re trying to put across is “Don’t try to use this unless you know what you’re doing”.

On balance, I still favour “obsolete” as carrying the right combination of meanings: “don’t use me because I’m old”.

Best wishes

Jeremy.




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Mark S.

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Mar 25, 2021, 11:09:01 AM3/25/21
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If you try your hand at this, there is an incredible number of projects that haven't been touched in years. So it is unlikely that the authors will ever self-identify as "deprecated" (I've only come across one like that).

I've been using "Deprecated" when I'm aware of something in the current core that closely matches the functionality. For instance there is a "join" operator, which might work fine but will undoubtedly clash with the modern filter operator of the same name. Usually those same items are also "Oldish". 

But it's an aggregator, not a competition. If someone disagrees they can post their own 5-star link explaining how they use it every day and how it brings a smile to the lips of small cats and dogs. ;-)

For older things, I'm leaning towards "Not-Current".

Mark S.

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Mar 25, 2021, 11:18:47 AM3/25/21
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I've added Obsolete to ImageMagick.



Mat

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Mar 25, 2021, 12:57:11 PM3/25/21
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Some of my plugins are anachronisticly archaic from an antediluvian epoch.

Maybe it's more constructive to put it into context by displaying a last-updated date and what the TW version was at that time?

-----

Bug? or just me:
When downloading a link from links.tiddlywiki.com, i.e by clicking the black circle with a downarrow, I get a tid file. When I drag this into a wiki, I was expecting to get some kind of tiddler. Instead, the $:/Import tiddler shows the external link... so if I click that link I go to the wiki. But the Import $:/Import tiddlers list is of course just temporary so I lose the last import all the time. Do I misunderstand something?

---

An idea - maybe it's already been thought of (this thread is now too long for me to tell):

Assuming that one should, indeed, get a tiddler when downloading a linktiddler then:

If linktiddlers are fetched to a wiki that is itself a link-contributing wiki, then I assume the linktiddlers will be aggregated again. We could make is so linktiddlers have a UI to make it very easy to improve on its data. For example when fetching tiddlers from the aggregator site, an extra tiddler comes along; a ViewTemplate conditional for tag[$:/tags/Link]. (Or this viewtemplate could be installed manually.)

This ViewTemplate presents a UI, e.g a checkbox for easily tagging/marking out the link as outdated, or a selectwidget to attach a TW version to it. The viewtemplate can also have a field with the tag full tag space for all linktiddlers, sorted, and a Selectwidget or some such so the user can select to improve the tags. (Later there could be a smarter mechanism that proposes modifications like "Proposal: Exchange tag [plugin] for tag [Plugin]")

<:-)




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