Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[Xavier B.]

Hi,

I'm just a user of tiddlywiki. My programming skils are low overall in Javascript but I have enough skills in python. I would like to write some wiki server there in python but with the tiddlywiki interface. I love it: when ypu type a link, then a new tiddler appears inmediately in the same page: and I love the search function too.

I just want to pick up this too features of tiddlywiki. Where should I look into the code for find this? There is no documentation all bunch of code do.

Thanks in advance,

Xavier

[PMario]

Hi Xavier,

You may have a closer look at: https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/TiddlyWeb

An overview may be found at: https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/TiddlyWeb

tank .. is a project from Chris Dent the creator of all the TiddlyWeb python code.

He runs those pages. .. So the best way would probably be to contact him. He can tell you where to start in a much better way than I do.

https://github.com/tiddlyweb  ... see: TiddlyWeb repo

and http://tiddlyweb.com/

and https://pypi.org/project/tiddlyweb/

There is an API explorer https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/explorer

BUT ... This version of tiddlyweb was created for TiddlyWiki 2 now also known as: TiddlyWikiClassic or TWc

TiddlyWeb has much more possibilities than we use with the node-js version at the moment.

So definitely try to contact Chris.

have fun!

mario

[Xavier B.]

Thanks, Mario, for your response.

I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official tiddlywiki5.

Xavier

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
PMario <pmar...@gmail.com> ha escrit:

> Hi Xavier,
>
> You may have a closer look at:
> https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/TiddlyWeb
>
> An overview may be found at:
> https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/TiddlyWeb
>

> tank .. is a project from Chris Dent <https://github.com/cdent> the creator

> of all the TiddlyWeb python code.
> He runs those pages. .. So the best way would probably be to contact him.
> He can tell you where to start in a much better way than I do.
>
> https://github.com/tiddlyweb ... see: TiddlyWeb repo
> and http://tiddlyweb.com/
> and https://pypi.org/project/tiddlyweb/
>
> There is an API explorer https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/explorer
>
> BUT ... This version of tiddlyweb was created for TiddlyWiki 2 now also
> known as: TiddlyWikiClassic or TWc
>
> TiddlyWeb has much more possibilities than we use with the node-js version
> at the moment.
>
> So definitely try to contact Chris.
>
> have fun!
> mario
>

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[Xavier B.]

Thanks, Mario, for your response.

I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official tiddlywiki5.

Xavier

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
PMario <pmar...@gmail.com> ha escrit:

> Hi Xavier,
>
> You may have a closer look at:
> https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/TiddlyWeb
>
> An overview may be found at:
> https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/TiddlyWeb
>

> tank .. is a project from Chris Dent <https://github.com/cdent> the creator

> of all the TiddlyWeb python code.
> He runs those pages. .. So the best way would probably be to contact him.
> He can tell you where to start in a much better way than I do.
>
> https://github.com/tiddlyweb ... see: TiddlyWeb repo
> and http://tiddlyweb.com/
> and https://pypi.org/project/tiddlyweb/
>
> There is an API explorer https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/tiddlyweb/explorer
>
> BUT ... This version of tiddlyweb was created for TiddlyWiki 2 now also
> known as: TiddlyWikiClassic or TWc
>
> TiddlyWeb has much more possibilities than we use with the node-js version
> at the moment.
>
> So definitely try to contact Chris.
>
> have fun!
> mario
>

[PMario]

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com wrote:

...

I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official tiddlywiki5.

Hi Xavier,

I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding how TiddlyWiki works. ... TiddlyWiki is a self-contained single file wiki. ... No server is needed other than for serving a

single file resource.

TLDR;

I think it would be good, if you explain a bit closer what you want to do.

----------------------------------------------

If you open tiddlywiki.com it's served from a github page as a single 6MByte index.html file. ... Since github does server side compression only about 2Mbyte are sent to the client.

Everything you see UI wise is rendered on the client. ... It would be the same experience if I would send you myWiki.hmtl by e-mail.

If I "permalink" to eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelloThere  the browser will open the HelloThere tiddler, because the whole content is already in the client. No server is involved, the core code "catches" the URI fragment and displays the tiddler.

-----------------

A TiddlyWeb server will also "only" create a single resource if you request https: //your-uri/index.html ... It will build the html file server side and send it as 1 file, that contains code, UI and data to the client.

The advantage of TiddlyWeb is, that you also have some API routes that will let you request recipes, bags and single tiddlers, without any TW UI as text or JSON. There is a query language with which you can do server side search.

The TW UI is about 2100 elements. If you download empty.html form tiddlywiki.com you can open the $:/ControlPanel : Info : Basic : tab and have a look a the "Number of shadow tiddlers": 2088 ... Most of them are responsible for the TW js core and UI. The whole TW UI is built using TW wikitext and tiddlers.

-mario

[Xavier]

Mario, yes I know that tiddlywiki is a html javascript engine.

But I want something in the background, for example for managing multiaccess and multiedit of same tiddler. I think it could be done with backend.

Mario, which shadow tiddler controls the pop up behaviour?

Thanks,

Missatge de PMario <pmar...@gmail.com> del dia dc., 14 de jul. 2021 a les 14:51:

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[PMario]

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 8:10:00 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com wrote:

Mario, yes I know that tiddlywiki is a html javascript engine.

But I want something in the background, for example for managing multiaccess and multiedit of same tiddler. I think it could be done with backend.

TiddlyWeb allows access configuration, with policies. .. IMO there is no "multi-edit" functionality atm.

 

Mario, which shadow tiddler controls the pop up behaviour?

See the examples of the reveal widget. https://tiddlywiki.com/#RevealWidget. There is a "popup" button in the 3rd example.

-m

[ludwa6]

@PMario: just to say thanks (again!) for sharing another treasure of the TW world -TiddlyWeb API Explorer in this case. 

As per my post to this other thread,  it opened my eyes to the possibility of an OpenAPI Explorer in TW -and i'd love to know what you think about that, either in that other thread or via DM (this one's really not about that).

On this topic, i can only say: i share Xavier's interest in the idea of connecting TW as front end to a backend server with muli-user / multi-edit capability.  Of course that old problem of edit conflict avoidance/ resolution would need to be solved, but i have trouble accepting that as a real stopper in this day&age -although from what i gather (from email exchange with dev Chris Dent), TiddlyWeb is not likely to be the place where such functionality will emerge.   If there be some other place to look for solutions, it'd be great if someone could share info about that here!

/walt

[Joshua Fontany]

I am getting very close to a "multiplayer" solution. It's definitely one of the "Hard Problems": https://gigaom.com/2009/05/10/why-sync-is-so-difficult/

Best,
Joshua Fontany

[ludwa6]

Hard problem indeed, @Joshua, in domains where there needs be one definitive source of truth... But in any problem space where there is room for different versions of truth (the case in many applications of TW tech), perhaps it needn't be so hard?  

Without knowing which sub-species of the multiplayer problem you are busy solving, i will say that i for one am these days more interested in the problem-space where different versions of truth are respected & included (or TRANScluded, as the case may be) than i am in the space where one version must win out over all others.  

For example: ii think Ward Cunningham was wise to sidestep all that backstage ugliness of Wikipedia's "Consensus Engine" in developing his Smallest Federated Wiki model.  

(THAT in fact is my dream for how this TW multiverse eventually develops some navigable wormholes between its many dimensions <8-)

/walt

[Stobot]

I'm excited to hear about any new efforts on multi-user Joshua! I'm sure very hard, but game changing functionality for team TiddlyWiki usage!! I continue to try and use BOB for this, but the reconnect process is so spotty that it's difficult to get traction. 

[Álvaro]

Joshua, there is the Fluid framework for collaborative web applications. Although you surely know it. https://github.com/microsoft/FluidFramework

[TW Tones]

All,

With a long history in IT the best synchronisation platform I ever came across was Novel's E-Directory, the competitor to Microsoft "Active Directory". Whist it was primarily for directory services users, permissions etc... its underlying architecture was something I expected to take over the world, but sadly other factors diminished its influence. It was quite capable of synchronising even data. Within Edirectory, most of the difficult problems had being solved, including update issues if a copy of the directory when offline to others but still provisioned local services (and local changes). As a systematic or conceptual thinker I got a lot from E-directory and are saddened this technology seems to have being underutilised. It would be sad if it was trapped inside some copywrite law given Novel was always fighting (and winning) over the copywrite lord of Microsoft (at the time). 

Such a synchronised solution should be a cloud service, on which you can build anything including  tiddlers that makeup a tiddlywiki. Then all solutions would be inherently synchronised and multi-user, multi-location and internet redundant.

My Grandfather was an engineer in Radio, making the first every remote control toy in Australia for my dad, and his book towards the end of his career demonstrated how very often good ideas are lost in time and are only sometimes rediscovered or redeveloped. Perhaps it is my "late stage career" in IT that I am starting to see such examples proliferate as well. Many of these ideas are reinvented multiple times as if totally new. 

Regards

Tones

[A Gloom]

@Joshua

Definitely interested in multi-player functionality.  I still have my interactive novel TW with interactive SVG mapping and quasi first person perspective video game interface to work with the SVG mapping.