Twitter Notes -- Occasional updates from the OTHER Group

[@TiddlyTweeter]

#TiddlyToolmap, regularly updated by @giffmex is becoming, rightly, a great place to find #TiddlyWiki resources ... over 500 entries in over 70 categories ... https://dynalist.io/d/zUP-nIWu2FFoXH-oM7L7d9DM

@TiddlyTweeter

[@TiddlyTweeter]

A quick German review of TiddlyToolmap announced on Twitter that considers it "The Ultimate List for #TiddlyWiki"...
 

Neu im ToolBlog! => Die ultimative Liste für TiddlyWiki dlvr.it/QXTWj6

@stlist

 

@TiddlyTweeter

[Mohammad]

This is a great place to find resources on TW.

One improvement could come by help of other users (specially developers, advanced users) to check and review those resources and give their recommendation!

Some of them may be obsolete or use the wrong and incorrect method to implement something!

By the way, this is one of the best places to find TW resources.

Thank you David for all your efforts!

One more comment

It seems TW is growing day by day, what is missing is a good documentation like

• user manual
• developer manual

Specially for the second part the resources are very stranded and documentation on them is rare!

I heard Eric has started a project called "TW the missing manual".

I should appreciate the kind help by people in TW forum (this group).

/Mohammad

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

A few comments that maybe help you get where TW is.

Mohammad wrote:

This is a great place to find resources on TW.

Absolutely. TiddlyToolMap, whatever its limits, is the best Resource Reference for users TW has ever had.
 

One improvement could come by help of other users (specially developers, advanced users) to check and review those resources and give their recommendation!

The problem is that TiddlyToolMap is just one person's work. Its held on a very simple online outliner. It has no interactive tools.

The best bet is to LOBBY (push for) it to be collectively adopted and made into a full-scale data repository where up-voting and notes become possible by developers and others.

BUT David is just doing what he can easily so we should never make that his problem.

Right now he IS TiddlyToolMap. But he has already said...

I would hope that ... people ... would feel free to use the info in my toolmap to create similar things according to the criteria they set.

Some of them may be obsolete or use the wrong and incorrect method to implement something!

The issue with compatibility, both forwards and backwards is important. Also that presentation of resources is basically similar so users don't get confused.

David can ensure neither. If he got into that the list would not get updated. Too much work for one person.

BUT, far better to have something imperfect working than an idea of something perfect that is not possible because of the work involved :-) You see my point?
 

By the way, this is one of the best places to find TW resources.

Thank you David for all your efforts!

 

One more comment

It seems TW is growing day by day, what is missing is a good documentation

Its a "moot point" (meaning its "maybe not so simple").

On the one hand some things ARE under-documented. A current example is how to apply non-global CSS styles, which recently changed quite radically.

On the other hand a lot IS documented but GETS LOST because there is NO method in the Google Groups to tag anything that would allow you to find it later.

In other words, the Documentation issue, in many ways, is exactly the same as the Resources Issue that David has a given a clear solution to through TiddlyToolMap.

If someone could do a TiddlyManualMap for docs. you'd see what I mean.

Great questions. I enjoyed trying to answer them from my point of view.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Mohammad]

Thank you Josiah!

Yes, I see many users, many developers, many works! but a policy a system to use this synergy more efficiently is MISSING!

TW is really a great tool with a huge potential it deserve to have a much better ecosystem!

/Mohammad

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammed

Quick footnote ...

On the Development (coding) side I think its pretty much there. Great programmers concerned to get it right!

On the Publicity & Outreach side I think it is Terrible. Best public resource, apart for the basic TW site, IS TiddlyToolMap.

Josiah

[Mohammad]

That is true!

On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 5:04:52 PM UTC+4:30, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Mohammed

Quick footnote ...

On the Development (coding) side I think its pretty much there. Great programmers concerned to get it right!

On the Publicity & Outreach side I think is it Terrible. Best public resource, apart for the basic TW site, IS TiddlyToolMap.

[David Gifford]

On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 6:07:32 AM UTC-5, Mohammad wrote:

This is a great place to find resources on TW.

Thanks!

One improvement could come by help of other users (specially developers, advanced users) to check and review those resources and give their recommendation!

That would definitely be nice, but that would require another type of tool, which would have to come from someone else.

Some of them may be obsolete or use the wrong and incorrect method to implement something!

Yes, the list comes 'as is' - it assumes the user either knows what (s)he is doing when grabbing stuff from the tools, or will experiment with them as needed before applying them in TWs they use daily, or producing other tools on top of them.

By the way, this is one of the best places to find TW resources.

Thank you David for all your efforts!

You are welcome! Glad you find it helpful.

One more comment

It seems TW is growing day by day, what is missing is a good documentation like

• user manual
• developer manual

Specially for the second part the resources are very stranded and documentation on them is rare!

Yes, I think the problem is just that TW is so versatile - so many tools already built in, so many add on tools (my map is approaching 600), so many use cases, so many different ways of doing the same thing. How could we ever keep up with that? In my case, TiddlyWiki is like my TV remote control. I only know how to use about 5% of the buttons. The other issue is that people who are great at creating TiddlyWiki tools are often not great at writing for non-users. Their expertise takes them too far afield. A few years ago I wrote a number of how to tiddlers for tiddlywiki.com. Some are found at https://tiddlywiki.com/#Working%20with%20TiddlyWiki. But I don't have time for more of that, and don't know how much I even could do, given my limited knowledge.

Maybe if someone could take the time to identify areas that are not covered (or not covered clearly) at tiddlywiki.com, and make a list, a few people here could sign up in pairs (one expert, one newbie) to work on one list item, and that might make a dent.

[David Gifford]

See my comment below in bold. Your replies to Mohammad are right on.

On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 7:03:47 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Ciao Mohammad

A few comments that maybe help you get where TW is.

Mohammad wrote:

This is a great place to find resources on TW.

Absolutely. TiddlyToolMap, whatever its limits, is the best Resource Reference for users TW has ever had.
 

One improvement could come by help of other users (specially developers, advanced users) to check and review those resources and give their recommendation!

The problem is that TiddlyToolMap is just one person's work. Its held on a very simple online outliner. It has no interactive tools.

The best bet is to LOBBY (push for) it to be collectively adopted and made into a full-scale data repository where up-voting and notes become possible by developers and others.

BUT David is just doing what he can easily so we should never make that his problem.

Right now he IS TiddlyToolMap. But he has already said...

I would hope that ... people ... would feel free to use the info in my toolmap to create similar things according to the criteria they set.

Some of them may be obsolete or use the wrong and incorrect method to implement something!

The issue with compatibility, both forwards and backwards is important. Also that presentation of resources is basically similar so users don't get confused.

David can ensure neither. If he got into that the list would not get updated. Too much work for one person.

BUT, far better to have something imperfect working than an idea of something perfect that is not possible because of the work involved :-) You see my point?
 

By the way, this is one of the best places to find TW resources.

Thank you David for all your efforts!

 

One more comment

It seems TW is growing day by day, what is missing is a good documentation

Its a "moot point" (meaning its "maybe not so simple").

On the one hand some things ARE under-documented. A current example is how to apply non-global CSS styles, which recently changed quite radically.

Can you elaborate on the CSS radical change? I don't know what that change was.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Can you elaborate on the CSS radical change? I don't know what that change was.

Ciao David

The change is significant. Read all the Tiddlers referenced from here: https://tiddlywiki.com/#How%20to%20apply%20custom%20styles The old method of local scope changes by Tag is now Deprecated.

Josiah

[Mohammad]

David,

 One problem is there is no collaboration on the same thing!

Please keep TiddlyToolmap updated! This is one place to record what we have on TW.

I see many work just buried in this forum (not easy to find stuff, not easy to organize! and of course not for collaboration!).

/Mohammad

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad wrote:
One problem is there is no collaboration on the same thing!

I did notice in your "slideshow" work you spent time reviewing what had been done already.

Exactly right.

Always best to look at the "best of what has been done already."

Before David created his list that would have been seriously more difficult. Otherwise you could not have found them.

Serious ongoing co-collaboration DOES happen, but is currently principally limited to developers on GitHub around coding.

Out in the wild TW users really have NO structure other than what just happens to be there. What is there is mainly tiddlywiki.com and tiddlytoolmap.

Josiah

[HansWobbe]

Just a "collaboration" comment, based on the fact that all users see things slightly differenly.

Technically, it is very easy for others to create additional public DynaList files that can then be referenced or integrated.  This approach might capture more of the many diverse perspectives that make TW appealing to a large, diverse user base.

Hans