Separate Tiddlywiki Pages/Tiddle "Groups"

[Spooky Noodle]

I'm in the major undertaking of organizing my notes for my Dungeons and Dragons campaign. So far, I've mostly been using TiddlyWiki as is, but there've been some frustrating roadblocks, and I'm wondering if the wiki is customizable to alleviate some of that frustration. 

I understand that the original intention of TiddlyWiki is to have everything just as a 'Tiddle,' with the entire thing as one website, and transitions between the different 'posts' are accomplished through javascript. 

However, I frequently find myself wishing that it worked like a typical website, where one would have separate webpages, and subpages. 

An additional clarification: each time I say "page", I'm referring specifically to anything that would be able to preserve a series of tiddles, call it a 'page', a 'group', a 'bundle', 'folder', whichever you prefer. 

To better illustrate, let me provide an example: 

• In the world that these players are in, is called "Barovia." 
• In 'Barovia', there is a town called 'Vallaki.' 
• In 'Vallaki', there is a building called 'The Blue Water Inn.' 
• In 'The Blue Water Inn,' there are many rooms that one could explore. 

What I would like to is have 'Barovia' have a page, 'Vallaki' has a page, 'Blue Water Inn' has a page, and then on each of these pages there's a series of 'Tiddles.' 

So, the Barovia page will have a bunch of Tiddles, and when I click one of them, it gets rid of all of the other tiddles, and goes to the 'Vallaki' page, which has a series of tiddles. When I click on the 'Blue Water Inn' tiddle, inside the Vallaki page, it gets rid of all of the 'general Vallaki' tiddles, and takes me to just the tiddles for 'Blue Water Inn.' 

I imagine the framework would look something like mywebsite.com/barovia/vallaki/blue-water-inn or something similar. It would be nice to have separate pages because I could also have 'tiddles' with the same name. So rather than having to distinguish the 'Blue Water Inn Taproom' from the 'Blood of the Vine Taproom' by titling them BWI Taproom and BotV Taproom respectively, they could be at different addresses, like so: barovia/vallaki/blue-water-inn#Taproom vs barovia/bar-village/blood-on-vine#Taproom

"But Spooky, if you want different pages, why don't you just use normal CSS?" Well hypothetical questioner, I've found that I've become exceedingly reliant on the 'Tiddle' framework for organizing notes. I love being able to drag and rearrange tiddles, edit them so effortlessly, create new tiddles without having to open up dreamweaver or VS code, it's just a dream. I want to use TiddlyWiki, but the problem I've come across is that I find myself frequently with dozens of tiddles open, most of which are just getting in the way. I have to close down all tiddles, then re-open the ones I actually need by browsing through my table of contents, etc. 

If TiddlyWiki can't do multiple, different pages, that's honestly probably okay, but I wonder, is it possible to create "groups" of Tiddles? So, for example, I could close all Tiddles, then open the 'Vallaki' group of tiddles, and it would open the highest level 'Blue Water Inn' Tiddle, but it wouldn't also open all of the Tiddles that are 'sub' to Blue Water Inn. 

Honestly, it's entirely possible that I can't do what I'm looking for in TiddlyWiki specifically, and I need to use something like CSS and HTML to accomplish that. 

I would just severely miss the river, and the functionality of tiddles themselves. The ability to reorder and instantly edit tiddles with a rich text (sort of) editor is seriously invaluable to me. 

[TonyM]

Spooky Noodle I am sure you can achieve what you want and more with tiddlywiki, without html and css just wiki text and widgets. Here is some quick notes that will get you moving. The Control Panel > Appearance > Story View > Zoomin (only displays one tiddler at a time) If you create a button to move to another tiddler you can choose which actions to do like close everything and open only that tiddler Also consider the  "https://github.com/buggyj/tw5-tools" story tabs plugin There is Using the read-only single tiddler view but may not be relevant to you If you used modals one modal can open another and close the previous. The groupings of tiddlers you mention could relate to the current story list (appears in the sidebar tab "open"), but you can design for multiple story lists. The tabbed internal toc is a way to traverse multiple tiddlers inside the one tiddler, you could build a tiddler that does the job of (transcluding) the tiddler(s) as needed within itself  I am working on a mechanism and it may be easy in a future release to set and perform actions on open tiddler,  in this way you could code in each tiddler if it should be on its own etc...  but something similar can be done in modals because you control the buttons that appear. Regards Tony

[Spooky Noodle]

Are you at all familiar with the Javascript for just the story river, and for tiddles?

[TonyM]

Spookey,

First, not withstanding the below, if you truly need to introduce javascript the TiddlyWikiDev forum is possibly better suited to your post.

I am familiar with javascript only as a script kiddie and hacker,  but I think it is an important principal that if there is already a method in tiddlywiki, to use that first, in tiddlywiki. The only way to introduce javascript in tiddlywiki is to include it in the core or make a plugin. If you make plugins to do something already possible in the core you are in some ways confusing the issue, people have to seek out your plugin, and many (including yourself) may think they can only do it with the plugin, when there is already a way to do it in tiddlywiki.

I plan to eventually write some plugins for Tiddlywiki, but unless I am trying to import some complex functionality from another javascript project, that is not already available in tiddlywiki, the plugins intention needs to be to add optional, missing functionality that is not suitable for introduction to the core.

Of course you can use tiddlywiki anyways you want, and if you are comfortable with javascript you can solve problems with it, for whatever you want. However my approach is whenever I solve a problems for myself, how can I solve a problem for the tiddlywiki community as a whole.? How can I add value to tiddlywiki? If I am working on something why not place 10% more effort so others (including myself) can make use of 100% of my solution over and over again.

Almost all my solutions which I will progressively rollout to the community, are wikitext and macro based, all are designed to add he most functionality, without compromising the core or compatibility.

Right now I am working on a method to add Next and Previous method that can close the current tiddler and open the next one. Which I can share in draft of you want. My intention is to make this feature rich but very simple to use.

Regards

Tony

[HC Haase]

torsdag den 17. oktober 2019 kl. 00.19.40 UTC+2 skrev Spooky Noodle:

they could be at different addresses, like so: barovia/vallaki/blue-water-inn#Taproom 

what if you gave the tiddler the title barovia/vallaki/blue-water-inn#Taproom and then in a the caption field gave it the
Taproom name (if you dont want the long name) then just use the table of contents macro in the tiddlers, so in "barovia" you have a TOC with a link to "vallaki", in "vallaki" a link to "blue-water-inn", and in "blue-water-inn" a link to "Taproom" (that links to the tiddler
barovia/vallaki/blue-water-inn#Taproom)

[PMario]

Hi,

The tree macro will be an option too

https://tiddlywiki.com/#tree%20Macro:%5B%5Btree%20Macro%5D%5D%20%5B%5Btree%20Macro%20(Examples)%5D%5D

It should handle the structure nicely. eg:

world:1/barovia/vallaki/blue-water-inn/Taproom

see the attachment!

-m

[PMario]

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 1:28:05 PM UTC+2, PMario wrote:

It should handle the structure nicely. eg:

world:1/barovia/vallaki/blue-water-inn/Taproom

We call this type of naming convention a namespace, which can be filtered very well with the "prefix" filters.

It is heavily used with the internal TW structure of the core modules and plugins. ...

-m

[PMario]

On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:19:40 AM UTC+2, Spooky Noodle wrote:

...

An additional clarification: each time I say "page", I'm referring specifically to anything that would be able to preserve a series of tiddles, call it a 'page', a 'group', a 'bundle', 'folder', whichever you prefer. 

There are some discussions about "stories", which is a collection of tiddlers, that should be viewed together.

Tobias Beer did create something, he called snapshots. ... But the implementation is relatively old and he did store the snapshots in 1 datatiddler, which isn't the preferred method. ...

I was thinking about a similar mechanism, that can be combined with the "bundler-plugin". So in my point of view "stories" should be also definable with filters.

...

just some thoughts.

mario

[PMario]

On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:19:40 AM UTC+2, Spooky Noodle wrote:

 

To better illustrate, let me provide an example: 

• In the world that these players are in, is called "Barovia." 
• In 'Barovia', there is a town called 'Vallaki.' 
• In 'Vallaki', there is a building called 'The Blue Water Inn.' 
• In 'The Blue Water Inn,' there are many rooms that one could explore. 

What I would like to is have 'Barovia' have a page, 'Vallaki' has a page, 'Blue Water Inn' has a page, and then on each of these pages there's a series of 'Tiddles.' 

So, the Barovia page will have a bunch of Tiddles, and when I click one of them, it gets rid of all of the other tiddles, and goes to the 'Vallaki' page, which has a series of tiddles. When I click on the 'Blue Water Inn' tiddle, inside the Vallaki page, it gets rid of all of the 'general Vallaki' tiddles, and takes me to just the tiddles for 'Blue Water Inn.' 

The basic element in TiddlyWiki is a tiddler. ... which also is the British name of the "Three spined stickleback"

-------------------------------

I was lately experimenting with a "trigger" widget, that should be used for automatic testing of the TW-UI. It is a widget, that can trigger actions, whenever it is shown.

While testing it, I was already thinking about a different use-case with RPGs. ... It could automatically trigger actions, if a tiddler is opened. ... eg: "load a new story" into the story river.

The BIG problem, with such "automagic" elements is: They can "brick" the application or even destroy content, if variables are not set, or contain unexpected values. ....

just some thoughts.

-mario

[Mark S.]

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 4:59:17 AM UTC-7, PMario wrote:

The basic element in TiddlyWiki is a tiddler. ... which also is the British name of the "Three spined stickleback"

"Three spined stickleback" sounds like something out of Harry Potter.

[Spooky Noodle]

Thank you! That looks enormously useful for my naming problem, and I'll be sure to use that, and convert all my notes over, that is seriously so helpful, major kudos. 

[Spooky Noodle]

That honestly sounds like the best way to accomplish what I'm looking for within the framework of TW. My discord is Spooky Noodle#1335, please give me a shout if you ever get those "bundler" or "story" plugins to work. It would be awesome if I could streamline things that way somehow. 

[Spooky Noodle]

If I were to format things in this way, would I need to tag the page in order to make it properly subordinate? In the tags for say, the Taproom tiddle, would I need to include /barovia/vallaki/blue-water-inn/ or Blue Water Inn or both? 

[Mark S.]

I use either Metabele's or Tobias' snapshot mechanism every day with a log going back to 2015. It still works great.

https://tobibeer.github.io/tb5/#Saving%20And%20Loading%20A%20History%20Snapshot

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 4:44:58 AM UTC-7, PMario wrote:

On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:19:40 AM UTC+2, Spooky Noodle wrote:

...

An additional clarification: each time I say "page", I'm referring specifically to anything that would be able to preserve a series of tiddles, call it a 'page', a 'group', a 'bundle', 'folder', whichever you prefer. 

[PMario]

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:11:13 PM UTC+2, Spooky Noodle wrote:

That honestly sounds like the best way to accomplish what I'm looking for within the framework of TW. My discord is Spooky Noodle#1335, please give me a shout if you ever get those "bundler" or "story" plugins to work. It would be awesome if I could streamline things that way somehow. 

See INTRO: Story Editor - Proposal   here in  the group. It may be interesting.

-mario